I would just like to pick all your brains for what I'm sure is really obvious to the hardened wildlife photographer.
I share a 500mm F4 P Nikkor and there seems to be some inconsistencies with how accurate it's sharpness is.
For example shooting at speeds of 1/250 and over @ F8 or smaller on a tripod the image never seems that sharp. But then when handheld or propping the lens up against something at speeds such as 1/40 @ F8 sometimes even down to F5.6 the image is much sharper.
Am I missing something fundamental as to why this should be happening?
All your comments would be most welcome even if it seems so obvious I'd love to hear your thoughts. I will be hoping to post an example of one of the sharper ones later.
On a tripod,if it has VR try switching it off, nikons first VR system was licenced from canon, and their instructions are to switch off the IS as it causes vibrations. Canons mk2 IS detects when its on a tripod and switches off automatically.
If none of that alies, I duno
Posted by David Sewell on June 8, 2009 at 11:22 AM
Hi Drew,
This may be stating the obvious, but I guess it all depends on how heavy your tripod is, and whether the lens is well supported upon it. If your 500mm is anywhere near as heavy as my 600mm, then it is very hard to keep it still, even with a tripod. If you do not use some form of cable release, this is also going to show up vibration more on a larger and heavier lens. I have noticed that in windy weather both tripod and lens will move together, whereas if the lens is supported from inside a car or hide, the effect of wind is far less. Perhaps it would help if you told us how heavy the tripod is, and what sort of tripod head is on it. Any of these things could affect apparent sharpness of the lens.
Do you use left hand resting on lens and eye crammed to DSLR body when using the tripod? ie one of the established long lens techniques....if not its possible that you are seeing mirror slap induced vibrations if the lens isn't being damped by either adequate ballhead support or your hand.
Try doing controlled testing with mirror lock activated and remote cable release using a static subject and differing release timings, 1,2, 5 and 10 seconds you will be surprised at just how long a lens takes to settle down/dampen out after the initial mirror swing.
Resting your hand or a bean bag on the lens helps dampen out these vibrations.
Try using a much bigger tripod and see if that works. A wimberley head is a fine thing for a 500 F4 try and get your hands on one.
Posted by Dawn Monrose on June 8, 2009 at 12:50 PM
What d'ya mean share, I thought it was mine?!!
I can second these problems, it seems very odd. For me, I get - fast shutter speed = lack of or no sharpness, plus a 'haze' over the image, fringing and lack of detail. At slow speeds, the image is sharp and virtually crystal clear in comparison. It's not VR - it's old and manual focus.
I wondered if it could be to do with it being an old lens on a new camera? Or some kind of syncing problem? I use a manfrotto 190PROB with 488RC4 ball head, which lets face it isn't all that sturdy, but the above still happens. For example, photographing flat on the ground as low as the tripod will go and hand pressing down on top of lens at a fast shutter speed still gives an unsharp result, but in my garden bird hide, photographing with legs fully extended, at a slow speed, gives a sharp clear result.
Not sure what it is, but I/we appreciated your comments as we'd like to get to the bottom of this!
This is a long shot but worth mentioning perhaps.
As the problem seems to occur at 1/250 sec + and not at 1/40 sec, then it could be that the much faster shutter speed means you're shooting in much brighter light, in which case it's possible that heat haze or some other atmospheric condition is destroying the image quality and sharpness.
I spend a lot of time shooting on heathland at 500mm and 700mm and even on very overcast, cloudy days when you would least expect to encounter heat haze, it's often very evident that the shimmering in the atmosphere is often causing a big decrease in quality and apparant image sharpness.
Optically that makes no sense whatsoever, shutter speed should have no effect on on image transmisison through the lens.
The only thing I can think off is a sticking or lazy aperture blades. At lower shutter speeds the aperture blades are closing within shutter tolerence, at higher speeds the aperture blades are caught moving into position. So is the lens manual focus and auto aperture operation?
Also check for fungal/mould haze in the elements, although this should affect optical quality at all shutter speeds, but could be a cause of reduced contrast
Thanks for all your comments, it's very interesting reading.
The lens is a manual focus but auto aperture/metering lens - i is a few years old now it is the Nikon F4 'P' beast. I thought that perhaps a good service may do it well and possibly sort the problem out.
When I use it on my tripod I have the 055 with the same head as Dawn's & yes it does seems more sturdy than the 190 ProB but I'm not convinced it's the setup. Not to pick favourites but I am going with Mike so far, saying that perhaps I will do some tests as mentioned earlier.
Mike, yes, that is exactly what I had in mind, I just didn't know whether it could actually happen. It's the only thing I could think of that may explain such a strange problem. There are no mould problems that I can see. Yes it is auto aperture operation.
If it is the above, do you think it's a fixable problem? Or is it due to old lens, modern camera?
Re heat haze, this could also be a possiblity, as sometimes the problem is much more apparent, such as shooting on a bright day at the beach the other day. But the problem does still occur on bright days with close range subjects, when haze is not apparent to my eyes, but as you say that doesn't mean it's not there.
Many thanks for all your comments, they have been gratefully received, looks like we shal go with a service first and foremost, I'm guessing that'll sort the thing out.
Discussion
12 repliesI would just like to pick all your brains for what I'm sure is really obvious to the hardened wildlife photographer.
I share a 500mm F4 P Nikkor and there seems to be some inconsistencies with how accurate it's sharpness is.
For example shooting at speeds of 1/250 and over @ F8 or smaller on a tripod the image never seems that sharp. But then when handheld or propping the lens up against something at speeds such as 1/40 @ F8 sometimes even down to F5.6 the image is much sharper.
Am I missing something fundamental as to why this should be happening?
All your comments would be most welcome even if it seems so obvious I'd love to hear your thoughts. I will be hoping to post an example of one of the sharper ones later.
Drew
Have you tried a different tripod setup?
Tim
If none of that alies, I duno
This may be stating the obvious, but I guess it all depends on how heavy your tripod is, and whether the lens is well supported upon it. If your 500mm is anywhere near as heavy as my 600mm, then it is very hard to keep it still, even with a tripod. If you do not use some form of cable release, this is also going to show up vibration more on a larger and heavier lens. I have noticed that in windy weather both tripod and lens will move together, whereas if the lens is supported from inside a car or hide, the effect of wind is far less. Perhaps it would help if you told us how heavy the tripod is, and what sort of tripod head is on it. Any of these things could affect apparent sharpness of the lens.
David
Do you use left hand resting on lens and eye crammed to DSLR body when using the tripod? ie one of the established long lens techniques....if not its possible that you are seeing mirror slap induced vibrations if the lens isn't being damped by either adequate ballhead support or your hand.
Try doing controlled testing with mirror lock activated and remote cable release using a static subject and differing release timings, 1,2, 5 and 10 seconds you will be surprised at just how long a lens takes to settle down/dampen out after the initial mirror swing.
Resting your hand or a bean bag on the lens helps dampen out these vibrations.
Mike
I can second these problems, it seems very odd. For me, I get - fast shutter speed = lack of or no sharpness, plus a 'haze' over the image, fringing and lack of detail. At slow speeds, the image is sharp and virtually crystal clear in comparison. It's not VR - it's old and manual focus.
I wondered if it could be to do with it being an old lens on a new camera? Or some kind of syncing problem? I use a manfrotto 190PROB with 488RC4 ball head, which lets face it isn't all that sturdy, but the above still happens. For example, photographing flat on the ground as low as the tripod will go and hand pressing down on top of lens at a fast shutter speed still gives an unsharp result, but in my garden bird hide, photographing with legs fully extended, at a slow speed, gives a sharp clear result.
Not sure what it is, but I/we appreciated your comments as we'd like to get to the bottom of this!
Thanks all.
As the problem seems to occur at 1/250 sec + and not at 1/40 sec, then it could be that the much faster shutter speed means you're shooting in much brighter light, in which case it's possible that heat haze or some other atmospheric condition is destroying the image quality and sharpness.
I spend a lot of time shooting on heathland at 500mm and 700mm and even on very overcast, cloudy days when you would least expect to encounter heat haze, it's often very evident that the shimmering in the atmosphere is often causing a big decrease in quality and apparant image sharpness.
The only thing I can think off is a sticking or lazy aperture blades. At lower shutter speeds the aperture blades are closing within shutter tolerence, at higher speeds the aperture blades are caught moving into position. So is the lens manual focus and auto aperture operation?
Also check for fungal/mould haze in the elements, although this should affect optical quality at all shutter speeds, but could be a cause of reduced contrast
The lens is a manual focus but auto aperture/metering lens - i is a few years old now it is the Nikon F4 'P' beast. I thought that perhaps a good service may do it well and possibly sort the problem out.
When I use it on my tripod I have the 055 with the same head as Dawn's & yes it does seems more sturdy than the 190 ProB but I'm not convinced it's the setup. Not to pick favourites but I am going with Mike so far, saying that perhaps I will do some tests as mentioned earlier.
Many thanks so far all !
Drew
If it is the above, do you think it's a fixable problem? Or is it due to old lens, modern camera?
Re heat haze, this could also be a possiblity, as sometimes the problem is much more apparent, such as shooting on a bright day at the beach the other day. But the problem does still occur on bright days with close range subjects, when haze is not apparent to my eyes, but as you say that doesn't mean it's not there.
Thanks for your help, much appreciated.
Drew beat me to it
Many thanks once again.
D&D