I was in the same quandry a couple of months ago until I remembered that we used cameras to copy originals when I was in the Navy. I use a light table with a black piece of paper over the light with a cutout the size of a 2x2 slide. I use my digital SLR on a tripod pointed down over the light box and after composing and focusing, fire away. Using the high resolution of the DSLR along with RAW, allows me to use Photoshop to make any corrections to the slide that I need to do. Yes, some scanners come with neat programs to clean, correct, etc., but the resolution is not as high and the scanner route is definitely not as quick as the camera route.
I can get higher resolution from my scanner than I can from my Nikon D300. Scanning is also very quick as you can scan straight into you post processing software.
If you decide to use a camera to duplicate your slides, then a Bowens Illumitran is the way to go - http://cgi.ebay.com/Bowens-Illumitran-3-Slide-Copier-w-Componon-Lens_W0QQitemZ250442143091QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a4f83d573&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1205|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50
I beg to differ with Terry on the resolution issue. I have an older Epson Perfection 3200 which will produce about a 15MP scan from 35mm, higher if I use the built in interpolation (which I never do). The new Epson scanners like the V700 are capable of over 60MP. Go with the scanner. Clean the slide with lens brush or blower before scanning.(you have to do this if rephotographing too), use the scanner software to set your black & white points and save to 16 bit/channel output. You'll have plenty of room for adjusting in Photoshop.
It really depends on what you are looking for as a final print size. A print that is 16X20 would require a scanner with a minimum native resolution of 4800 dpi, which is well within the capability of the Epson V700, but this is a scanner that exceeds Lucy's budgetary criteria.
If you do not have a lot of scanning to do, then it might make sense to get scans done by a scanning service. You can find deals out there for $.25 - $.40/slide plus media and shipping. These are typically done on a high quality film scanner at 4,000 dpi. Higher quality scans can be made on drum scanners, at 4,000 dpi or as high as 11,000 dpi, and resulting in scans that are clearly superior to anything you will get with a flatbed or film scanner, regardless of the claimed resolution of the scanner, but the come at a price - typically $15-25 each, depending on what shape your slides are in. The big difference between the three will be the dmax, or the maximum density area on the slide (shadows) that can be scanned and still produce detail. Flatbed scanners claim numbers as high as 4.0, as do the film scanners and drum scanners, but I seriously doubt that the flatbed dmax numbers are accurately represented.
You could certainly find a nice used 35mm dedicated scanner for less than $1000. I found a Nikon LS-4000 for $300. You can also use a flatbed like the Epson V700, which can be bought new for ~$500 or refurbished for ~$400. The dedicated 35mm scanners will provide better detail from your film (allowing for better looking bigger prints). The flatbeds allow you to scan a larger number of frames in one pass, so you can setup your scan criteria and let it do its job while you do something else.
That said, scanning software is not like PhotoShop. There is a learning curve and it takes time to learn and time to scan.
If you don't want to scan it yourself, there are a few services that seem OK. One is Scan Cafe. They use top of the line Nikon LS-5000 scanners, but I suspect they leave it on default (with digital ICE turned on). They charge a low rate per item (~$0.25/ frame) and offer 3000ppi scans with an option to use the full 4000ppi the Nikon offers. I'm sure they use the auto slide feeders and roll feeders to do this. I don't think you'll get much hands on adjustment.
In the end, the only person who will scan your film the way you envision it is you. But you would have to invest time in that process.
As far as my experience with the scanners go, I tried copying off my light table with a DSLR. It doesn't work well. You need a flat field copy (macro) lens and a good square copy stand to do a good job, but you'll still fight with the color shift of the light table lamps. Fluorescent lights used in light tables shift color several times per second, so good white balance on a DSLR is nearly impossible in this setting unless you slow down the shutter speed to get an average color temp. Slides are designed to be viewed with a light source around the color temp of daylight, so using an incandescent light source for smoother white balance and lighting may result in a poor representation of the colors on the slide. DSLRs do not have digital ICE to remove dust and scratches. On the other hand, film scanners are specifically designed to scan slides. Their optics are optimized for the close field work. They have various methods of automatic dust removal. They have higher resolution and don't average color with a Bayer matrix, so you get better color from your slide through the scanner.
One thing about film scanners in the consumer range is that they rarely offer the optical components to truly offer the advertised scan resolution. Although the Epson V700 advertises 6400ppi scanning, when you scan a resolution target, the most detail it can offer is around 2400ppi. Higher end Nikon and Minolta scanners are much closer to their advertised 4000ppi and 5400ppi ratings and offer a much sharper and detailed scan.
I have to ask two questions here: what is a large print and what will you be doing with the prints? If you are planning to market 16x20's or even 11x14's from a flatbed scan, I honestly believe that you will be doing your customers a disservice by offering them prints made this way. A dedicated film scanner such as the Nikon Coolscans really should be the route you go. The competition in the print market is very intense and this is an easy step up over your potential competition.
For personal prints or personal archival purposes, a flatbed will work. I wouldn't discard the original slides, though, when you are done.
Like Mel said...if I ever get around to it I think I'll send mine in to be scanned to www.scancafe.com. It's cheap, and unless you have thousands of slides it may not be worth it to buy a scanner. In fact the website states that if you have a 1000 or less scanned it's cheaper for them to do it...it's cheap because they bulk ship them to India. (.29 each). Also, you don't have to buy everthing they scan, you can reject up to 50% of what you send them. They get very high ratings for quality, and they say they do hands on inspections/adjustments for each scan. I emailed them a question about packing, and got a very nice quick response.
Posted by Kent Staubus on June 16, 2009 at 11:06 PM
While a flatbed will work OK for medium format and 4x5, I've NOT had good luck using one for 35mm. I bought a Nikon Coolscan V and get good results. Slow, one at a time, but results are good. Buy a used one, do your scans, and then resell it.
I scanned my slides with my Epson v300, and they cannot be enlarged. Does scancafe give high enough resolution to blow up the images? I don't know what I was thinking using slide film instead of print film!
Lucy
Posted by Mel Ladewig on June 17, 2009 at 12:25 PM
Lucy,
It may be in the scanner settings. With Epson Scan, you want to set the scan set on original size and the resolution to your target (like 2400dpi/spi/ppi). Then you should be able to enlarge from the scan.
I've found like Kent that enlarging from a flatbed scan is not nearly as good as enlarging from a dedicated film scanner. Scan cafe indicates that they scan at 3000ppi. That will give you a sharp and clean 13.5 megapixel image which will provide a 8X12 print at 360ppi or a 12X18 print at 240ppi. If you ask them to scan at 4000ppi (which they will do), then will and you'll get 20-21 megapixel files.
For an idea of how these nikon scanners perform, here are a couple links. This is from a 400 speed color print film. Fine grained color slide films have much tighter grain.
I scanned 4 slides at 3200dpi into my computer, but now I cannot see them. I want to open them in Photoshop Elements 7 to edit and save them. But the ps program says it cannot parse through the jpeg data??????
I cannot even see them in my windows photo viewer. I can opentehem with HP Media Smart viewer, but there is no way to edit or save the images. It just asks if I wnt a slide show or do I want to save it to the web.
I scanned the slides at a woefully, 300dpi, first..........got bad results... but did scan to photoshop. So this time I scanned at a high resol. What is wrong now?
Discussion
14 repliesLucy
It's not hard to find one on ebay.
If you do not have a lot of scanning to do, then it might make sense to get scans done by a scanning service. You can find deals out there for $.25 - $.40/slide plus media and shipping. These are typically done on a high quality film scanner at 4,000 dpi. Higher quality scans can be made on drum scanners, at 4,000 dpi or as high as 11,000 dpi, and resulting in scans that are clearly superior to anything you will get with a flatbed or film scanner, regardless of the claimed resolution of the scanner, but the come at a price - typically $15-25 each, depending on what shape your slides are in. The big difference between the three will be the dmax, or the maximum density area on the slide (shadows) that can be scanned and still produce detail. Flatbed scanners claim numbers as high as 4.0, as do the film scanners and drum scanners, but I seriously doubt that the flatbed dmax numbers are accurately represented.
Lucy
That said, scanning software is not like PhotoShop. There is a learning curve and it takes time to learn and time to scan.
If you don't want to scan it yourself, there are a few services that seem OK. One is Scan Cafe. They use top of the line Nikon LS-5000 scanners, but I suspect they leave it on default (with digital ICE turned on). They charge a low rate per item (~$0.25/ frame) and offer 3000ppi scans with an option to use the full 4000ppi the Nikon offers. I'm sure they use the auto slide feeders and roll feeders to do this. I don't think you'll get much hands on adjustment.
In the end, the only person who will scan your film the way you envision it is you. But you would have to invest time in that process.
As far as my experience with the scanners go, I tried copying off my light table with a DSLR. It doesn't work well. You need a flat field copy (macro) lens and a good square copy stand to do a good job, but you'll still fight with the color shift of the light table lamps. Fluorescent lights used in light tables shift color several times per second, so good white balance on a DSLR is nearly impossible in this setting unless you slow down the shutter speed to get an average color temp. Slides are designed to be viewed with a light source around the color temp of daylight, so using an incandescent light source for smoother white balance and lighting may result in a poor representation of the colors on the slide. DSLRs do not have digital ICE to remove dust and scratches. On the other hand, film scanners are specifically designed to scan slides. Their optics are optimized for the close field work. They have various methods of automatic dust removal. They have higher resolution and don't average color with a Bayer matrix, so you get better color from your slide through the scanner.
One thing about film scanners in the consumer range is that they rarely offer the optical components to truly offer the advertised scan resolution. Although the Epson V700 advertises 6400ppi scanning, when you scan a resolution target, the most detail it can offer is around 2400ppi. Higher end Nikon and Minolta scanners are much closer to their advertised 4000ppi and 5400ppi ratings and offer a much sharper and detailed scan.
For personal prints or personal archival purposes, a flatbed will work. I wouldn't discard the original slides, though, when you are done.
Kent in SD
Lucy
It may be in the scanner settings. With Epson Scan, you want to set the scan set on original size and the resolution to your target (like 2400dpi/spi/ppi). Then you should be able to enlarge from the scan.
I've found like Kent that enlarging from a flatbed scan is not nearly as good as enlarging from a dedicated film scanner. Scan cafe indicates that they scan at 3000ppi. That will give you a sharp and clean 13.5 megapixel image which will provide a 8X12 print at 360ppi or a 12X18 print at 240ppi. If you ask them to scan at 4000ppi (which they will do), then will and you'll get 20-21 megapixel files.
For an idea of how these nikon scanners perform, here are a couple links. This is from a 400 speed color print film. Fine grained color slide films have much tighter grain.
full image, Kodak HD400 negative film, Canon EOS3, 70-300IS lens
100% crop from the image above from a 4000ppi scan
I'll try to get a good example of a fine grain slide film put together tonight if you're interested.
I cannot even see them in my windows photo viewer. I can opentehem with HP Media Smart viewer, but there is no way to edit or save the images. It just asks if I wnt a slide show or do I want to save it to the web.
I scanned the slides at a woefully, 300dpi, first..........got bad results... but did scan to photoshop. So this time I scanned at a high resol. What is wrong now?
Lucy