For sometime a question has been at the back of my mind.
Taking composition out of the equation, which is opinion anyway, here goes.
QUESTION: What do you learn, lurkers in particular, from the postings on this site, about taking natural history images. Emphasis on “TAKING”, as against post processing.
I recently read an article on the BBC Springwatch site, namely “Springwatch close encounters” by Simon King, here is the link: Springwatch I suddenly realised that within the article, there was more information concerning how to achieve a decent N.H. shot, than what I’ve seen/read on this site, over the last year or more.
If anyone doesn’t want to post a reply in this thread, then please e-mail me direct at 2ray@f2s.com referring to this thread.
I am really interested is any responses, as I personally have been précising my own posts in line with what I’m seeing as being the norm. here.
After all, there is a wealth of knowledge and experience behind generalisations like, hide, tripod etc. So what do you say.
My motives are purely selfish, as it is by others questioning my techniques/images, that I have found that I truly learn and progress. I’ve tried posting images, where I tried to draw out a constructive critique, concerning technique etc., but to no avail. So let’s see what happens.
All this private messaging really p**ses me off ...on a forum, hence the word forum.
Don't know why perhaps I'm nosey and want to know the answers too!
Have to go along with that !
Ray- Sorry but I don't agree that composition is out of the question as being opinion. Some composition rules if broken do not work - whoever is looking at them.
I don't suppose the BBC article mentioned cutting the grass in front of the Skylark nest ?
I read the article and saw the programme about how to get wildlife pics. I personally think its a can of worms opened and has given a load of folks the wrong idea about the whole business.If the general public really knew what went on behind the methods of getting footage !! We do it of course and end up in nick !
I have done work with the TV companies in the past and they have this strange attitude of expecting you to drop everything and succumb to their every desire.Sorr going off the point a bit.
John Robinson
Posted by Peter Cairns on June 23, 2009 at 10:18 AM
Ray
What I learn from this site is that the overall technical standard of nature photography gets higher on an almost daily basis! This to a degree, informs my own choice of subject/project for the future. If I see a dozen stunning shots of, for example, a snowy owl on this site, I'd bring into question the logic of me repeating something very similar.
I also learn about current thought processes within the nature photography community - what is important to people and what motivates them. If I was honest, this is what disappoints me - and perhaps others too by the sound of it - the preoccupation with photography as a discipline rather than the approach, philosophy and yes, even emotion of the photographer with his/her subject. I'd personally like to hear more - and therefore learn about - photographer's perspectives, irrespective of the make of their equipment.
Not sure this answers your question Ray but it makes me feel better!
Hi Ray.....
Having been a member on this site for 3 years I decided this year not to renew my membership.IMHO this site was three years ago THE best NH site out there,but to day sadly this is not the case. In the past so many of the excellent photographers that used the site would give an honest and helpful opinion of an image,and not " my only nit is the OOF grass stem in the BG " alot of people here seem to forget that some times you have to take a picture NOW!!! and dont have the luxury of moving position or waiting till the subject is in a better place,and it would be helpful to remember this when giving an opinion.
Most of what I see on this site now is "Great shot Bill" or " Wish I'd taken that " none of which is remotely helpful. I will give you an example of what I consider to be helpful, a guy put an image on UKNP,it was taken in the evening of a Barn Owl,and he had to use a high ISO to get the shot,OK that's fine,about 8 people all said the same thing that the picture was very noisy,ok fine again,but not one of them suggested that he might like to look at some thing like Neat Image to reduce the noise, that would have been VERY helpful IMO,so much so that I made contact,sent him a copy of Neat Image,and had a 20 minute phone call with him to explain how to use it. I cant remember the last time I saw any thing like this happening on UKNP,and that's one of the reasons I did not renew my membership, there's plenty of others but I hope you get my drift.....
Sorry to "steal" your thread for a moment Ray, but in answer to Stewart's comments there are several postings just on this page alone which contain useful, helpful tips and advice.
Best wishes
Phil
Posted by Mark sellings on June 24, 2009 at 12:02 PM
Hi Ray,
Unfortunately I agree with Stewart - I too decided not to renew my membership a while ago because although I had always kept my post/comments ratio fairly high I found that the general quality/number of comments was decreasing and I found myself questioning why I should pay for it - at times I wondered if I'd offended people somehow (?) but in the end just put it down to 'thats life'.
On another note I completely agree with John above about Springwatch etc - seems to be the way society is going in terms of 'quick fix' photography unfortunately...
To be honest, I've really started to fall out of love with the hobby a bit, which is a real shame...
No secret squirrel stuff, I was just offering an alternative, to those who feel uncomfortable in posting where the whole world can see what they say. Besides, by emailing me direct, I also thought that I would get a more frank and thus honest response, and thus it turned out.
Take a close look at Stewarts post, it covers a lot that has be said to me off site.
John
Composition is all about personal opinion, you either like it or not, if you don’t then it is obviously helpful to mention why not.
Whether you agree with what the BBC does, or not, is irrelevant to the above question. I only referred to the article for its general content. If you disagree with what they do, then say so, in such a way as to help photographers to adopt good practices.
But don’t kid yourself, people will for example use calls, and not just birds calls, for example, fish leaping, frogs croaking, animals in distress etc.. By the way, I know for a fact that you have praised images where calls were used, and you will see images again, where they have been used. I know because I do on occasion use them, I just don’t admit to it, because I can just do without the flack, besides no one else was present, so how it was done etc. only I know, and people make assumptions, usually incorrect ones. Surely, it is best to discuss these things in a open and a constructive manner, than to drive it underground. It is, for me, fundamentally wrong to force your own views and opinions onto others, discuss openly and in a friendly manner without any derogatory remarks, after all you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.
Peter
Yes, the standard is getting higher, but I would submit that it has little to do with the photographers themselves, but more to do with the equipment now available on the open market. Would the current images be there if we were still using plate cameras, and because the current cameras and lenses are so user friendly, then people with relatively little fieldcraft can use them.
Using the forum to foresee trends in photography, although obviously of some use, I would use some caution, as I would be looking more at the international publications, and not just N.H./photographic ones, but fashion etc., after all they all use images in their marketing.
You mention Snowy Owls, well I would suggest that any these rare subjects, eagles, Snow Leopards etc., are photographers “Blue Ribbon” subjects, and with only a few exceptions, are only of use for the odd specialised article, and not for high volume sales. The Esso Tiger shots comes to mind, I believe this was a commissioned shot, taken it North America at a game farm. Although I will admit, the more extensive a professional/semi-professionals library is, the better.
You say and I quote :”I also learn about current thought processes within the nature photography community”, this is at odds with a number of the emails that I received This forum is perceived by some as a “Mutual Appreciation Forum”, infact, in one email, it was stated that once the author was noticed, they could quote who would comment and upto a certain point, even write the reply, irrespective of its actual quality of the image.
Peter sorry to go on, but again to quote you: “I'd personally like to hear more - and therefore learn about - photographer's perspectives, irrespective of the make of their equipment”. I would suggest that 80-90% of any image is a direst result of the photographer themselves. If the resultant image is c**p, then no matter what you do in Photoshop, it invariable still remains c**p.
I personally have little interest in this post processing thing, which is a fixation with so many. Photoshop can be learnt, getting an eye for an image has to be nurtured/developed, but many think that Photoshop is the latest panacea, for all there woes.
Stewart, most of what you have written is mirrored in the emails which I received. Going on about that blade of grass is invariable all that most can say. In a recent post of mine a Black-Headed Bunting singing, in my open speal I said what I anticipated was the comments that would be made, basically saying that I thought it was large and how it could be corrected, and how I came to take it. All the comments repeated what I had already stated, with no reference to the bird itself re detail, exposure, pose etc., left me wondering why I posted it.
When you refer to “Neat Image” you are right, but surely this should be tempered with appreciation of what the author was trying to depict. I personally always try to say why something does work for me, and not leave it as a bland statement.
Steward, and this is a sincere thing, if you see any of my posts please feel free to comment as you think fit. I‘ve’ frequently been in discussions with a number of members from here about hides and techniques in general, so please don’t hesitate in contacting me if you feel I can help in anyway.
Philip you’re not “stealing” the post far from it. I think one of the threads you are referring to, is Stephen Kaluski’s Red-legged Partridge - (Alectoris rufa) look and see who started the discussion off !!!! Infact, Stephen went on later to say, that this was the first of his topics, 146, which and I quote: “Thanks, one the few posts of mine that has provoked a thought ? ”. But as in most cases, this is referring to post processing.
Mark
Take a look at my ratio of topics to replies, in my image postings, and then how many actually comment on my work.
I’ve just put it down to ******* and that I’m not in the in crowd, which I can easily live with, much like yourself.
Mark I do hope that you and Stewart aren’t too much of a stranger, as I think it is going to become increasingly lonely here.
Bu**er, that means more lost sleep.
Now lets take that word “tripod”, which is all too often quoted in posts re mounting info.
Now this is relevant, so bear with me.
Yesterday, I was at the London Wetland centre, minding my own business, when this fella walked in sporting a Nikkor 200-400. As is the way of things, we got into conversation, and he commented on my “tripod” which was supporting my 600 + converter. He was amazed at how freely it moved.
I took my 600 off and put up my 200-400 + converter and camera. Again, he was surprised as to how freely it moved.
Now what is behind that word “tripod” which is what I would quote on any topic which I posted here. ???
Well, it was a Gitzo 1548, old number, carbon fibre tripod with a Wimberley Mk II, but between the two was a Manfrotto 438 levelling device. There was also a triangular “apron” tied between the legs, so that I have all those othee bits and bobs to hand. After further conversation, he then asked if he could take a note of the “tripod”, and take a shot of my locking system which I had added between the Gitzo’s mounting plate and the levelling device, there is already a locking device between the leveller and the Wimberley. As an aside as I was in a public hide, no hood was fitted.
Now all this is hidden behind that one word “tripod”. By the way, I use a different set-up when working from a car. But I still just use the word “tripod” which I use.
Get the point.
Now can you image what I really mean with the word(s), “hide/blind”.
Now, in the past I have mentioned for example, Photoshop training CD’s/DVD together with DVD’s covering aspects of N.H. photography, starting from the basics and then going onwards and upwards, but there is/has been no interest, so now I don’t bother.
You know I must be really thick, as I leant something new from each CD/DVD particularly the Lightroom one.
Recently I mentioned that I was going to build a few new feeding stations, which included some water features. Only one person contacted me about it, and that was Terri, and is relatively new to the hobby. We’ve had a few trips out, and the stations are progressing nicely. At one point, I mentioned a slight problem which had been niggling at me for sometime, Terri drawing on her gardening experience made a few suggestions and all is sorted. This is what it is all about, a cross exchange of ideas, a true win, win situation. One of the first major problems was getting fresh tea/coffee, so again after some discussion, we have now decided to incorporate tea making facilities into the two hides we are building.
Now these stations have worked out really well with just the two of us, but looking at the subjects we are getting in I do know one thing. Once we are fully up and running, the world and his brother will be knocking on our door, and it will be too late then.
I’ve made the offers but no takers, other than Terri, that in itself must tell you something.
Now to get out of my pram so to speak. I have in the passed suggested flipping an image, one serious feed back was that that would mean that it would be upside down, give me strength. If you remembered I posted a thread about “Low Level Shooting” and the first reply was something along the lines of: “Are you trying to teach us how to suck eggs”. We all have to learn everything at some point, and because you know something. doesn’t mean everyone else does.
Such disparaging/derogatory comments only make me smile, as I think it says far more about them than it does anything else. But, and it is a big BUT, it has made me seriously consider how I will comment/post in the future. I shall definitely be very circumspect in my posts in the future.
Finally, don’t just look at an image and the associated comments, try and look beyond and try to see what was intended to be captured, and then comment accordingly.
Well that’s it, sorry for going on.
Pity that this thread is scrolling down the page, as I thing that there could be some very useful thoughts offered/added.
Hi Ray......
Firstly let me bloody well done!! its about time there were some home truths on this forum,and I feel very much in line with all that you have said. I feel sure "the Mods" have been watching this thread,and while I know they have a job to do,I always feel that they only appear when someone steps over the line,perhaps they could get more actively involved in trying to improve this forum,and give some guidance to people posting as to what are useful comments and what are not........
I am sure you have had some very interesting e-mails sent to you direct,and its a shame that we can't all read them but I understand the reason why,but reading between the lines there's alot of room for improvement. If it happens then I for one would renew my membership..
I have said for the past 2 years that the site has chnaged and not for the better. That maybe a bit harsh because the standard is very high, but the comments are less now and not as educational as they once were. That maybe due to the standard here, but it doesn't help the lesser mortals like myself.
I am pretty inactive on here, but I am with my photography too, due to personal reasons and medical, but do make a comment every now and again, and probably in the mould that a lot of others do and the type I moan about........ time is precious!
I just don't like the PM's Ray as it falls outside the forum and like I said, I'm probably a bit nosey and wnat to know what is actually going on. Good thread though....
At the moment I feel a bit like a lurker, so guess I'm qualified to chip in here
Thank you all for your comments and insights both in this and on John's topic too - all points of view are welcomed & noted.
We are looking to improve the forums and how they work, and some work is in hand - although as the Mods have to earn their living elsewhere, putting a crust on the table has to take 1st priority and can sometimes mean things go slower than we would otherwise like.
The Mods will reply with our thoughts and views in due course .
" I will give you an example of what I consider to be helpful, a guy put an image on UKNP,it was taken in the evening of a Barn Owl,and he had to use a high ISO to get the shot,OK that's fine,about 8 people all said the same thing that the picture was very noisy,ok fine again,but not one of them suggested that he might like to look at some thing like Neat Image to reduce the noise, that would have been VERY helpful IMO,so much so that I made contact,sent him a copy of Neat Image,and had a 20 minute phone call with him to explain how to use it. " I am that man and to this day I'm very greatful of that help, and people who where suppose to be helping me at the time watched me fall instead of advising/helping me, and how can they go on to have a go at others on this forum??? stewart went out of his way and this was very touching, and we email each other now , I comment on shots I like and think are good and try to help where I can, and say it as I see it, but suffer from lack of photographic knowledge which I'm learning more everyday, tell me how it is and show me/tell me how to put it right thats why I'm here and to help others, Thank you Stewart, and Ray all the best
Hi Ray
While I commend your effort to try stimulate debate, your rather long, self indulgent and tedious response to what others have posted in this thread, undermines your original posting.
Knowing that you used a Crapzo tripod, with a thingy in the middle to support a MkII head informs me, not in the slightest, about how I can improve my photography. If I take a shot using a tripod (whatever the make, model, combination) and the image is sharp, then the tripod works! If a 'newbee' wants to know what tripod to buy they can post and ask. Besides, am I right in thinking there is an Equipment forum on NPN?
Back to your original question: What do I learn from posting on this site? I recently learned from Phil H how to approach damselflys (because I posted and asked). I've learned about stacked focussed images (because someone posted and asked). Perhaps most importantly, I've learned that the quality of my own work has to be higher to ‘compete’. Thus, I strive to improve by studying some of the outstanding images posted. I apply what I've learned using my own style.
Observations (not necessarily criticisms):
1. In the year or so I've been posting here, I've noticed that it seems to be becoming a 'bird-ographer' site - it appears that there are more posts containing bird images and these receive the most comment; much of it congratulatory i.e. well done for adding this one to the 'tick-list'.
2. There a too few photographers posting here who are willing to take a risk - the images posted are perfect and the approach is safe, therefore, the chance for critical comment is much reduced.
3. Perhaps those who feel the forum is not what it used to be, should point us in the direction of a 'good' forum?
4. If you are posting here (comments or images), you should be prepared to take any criticism you might receive, squarely on the chin.
I follow this forum mainly to look at great photographs which can be an inspiration and keep me working to try to take some decent ones myself. I don't know if another forum which has such high photographic standards but would be interested to follow links if others cared to post any. I'm much less interested in the comments.
In the interests of sanity and making things easier for everyone to read/follow, one post is better than two - so any further comments on the subject please add them this topic.
Discussion
15 repliesTaking composition out of the equation, which is opinion anyway, here goes.
QUESTION: What do you learn, lurkers in particular, from the postings on this site, about taking natural history images. Emphasis on “TAKING”, as against post processing.
I recently read an article on the BBC Springwatch site, namely “Springwatch close encounters” by Simon King, here is the link: Springwatch I suddenly realised that within the article, there was more information concerning how to achieve a decent N.H. shot, than what I’ve seen/read on this site, over the last year or more.
If anyone doesn’t want to post a reply in this thread, then please e-mail me direct at 2ray@f2s.com referring to this thread.
I am really interested is any responses, as I personally have been précising my own posts in line with what I’m seeing as being the norm. here.
After all, there is a wealth of knowledge and experience behind generalisations like, hide, tripod etc. So what do you say.
My motives are purely selfish, as it is by others questioning my techniques/images, that I have found that I truly learn and progress. I’ve tried posting images, where I tried to draw out a constructive critique, concerning technique etc., but to no avail. So let’s see what happens.
Don't know why perhaps I'm nosey and want to know the answers too!
Ray- Sorry but I don't agree that composition is out of the question as being opinion. Some composition rules if broken do not work - whoever is looking at them.
I don't suppose the BBC article mentioned cutting the grass in front of the Skylark nest ?
I read the article and saw the programme about how to get wildlife pics. I personally think its a can of worms opened and has given a load of folks the wrong idea about the whole business.If the general public really knew what went on behind the methods of getting footage !! We do it of course and end up in nick !
I have done work with the TV companies in the past and they have this strange attitude of expecting you to drop everything and succumb to their every desire.Sorr going off the point a bit.
John Robinson
What I learn from this site is that the overall technical standard of nature photography gets higher on an almost daily basis! This to a degree, informs my own choice of subject/project for the future. If I see a dozen stunning shots of, for example, a snowy owl on this site, I'd bring into question the logic of me repeating something very similar.
I also learn about current thought processes within the nature photography community - what is important to people and what motivates them. If I was honest, this is what disappoints me - and perhaps others too by the sound of it - the preoccupation with photography as a discipline rather than the approach, philosophy and yes, even emotion of the photographer with his/her subject. I'd personally like to hear more - and therefore learn about - photographer's perspectives, irrespective of the make of their equipment.
Not sure this answers your question Ray but it makes me feel better!
Pete
Having been a member on this site for 3 years I decided this year not to renew my membership.IMHO this site was three years ago THE best NH site out there,but to day sadly this is not the case. In the past so many of the excellent photographers that used the site would give an honest and helpful opinion of an image,and not " my only nit is the OOF grass stem in the BG " alot of people here seem to forget that some times you have to take a picture NOW!!! and dont have the luxury of moving position or waiting till the subject is in a better place,and it would be helpful to remember this when giving an opinion.
Most of what I see on this site now is "Great shot Bill" or " Wish I'd taken that " none of which is remotely helpful. I will give you an example of what I consider to be helpful, a guy put an image on UKNP,it was taken in the evening of a Barn Owl,and he had to use a high ISO to get the shot,OK that's fine,about 8 people all said the same thing that the picture was very noisy,ok fine again,but not one of them suggested that he might like to look at some thing like Neat Image to reduce the noise, that would have been VERY helpful IMO,so much so that I made contact,sent him a copy of Neat Image,and had a 20 minute phone call with him to explain how to use it. I cant remember the last time I saw any thing like this happening on UKNP,and that's one of the reasons I did not renew my membership, there's plenty of others but I hope you get my drift.....
Stewart......
Best wishes
Phil
Unfortunately I agree with Stewart - I too decided not to renew my membership a while ago because although I had always kept my post/comments ratio fairly high I found that the general quality/number of comments was decreasing and I found myself questioning why I should pay for it - at times I wondered if I'd offended people somehow (?) but in the end just put it down to 'thats life'.
On another note I completely agree with John above about Springwatch etc - seems to be the way society is going in terms of 'quick fix' photography unfortunately...
To be honest, I've really started to fall out of love with the hobby a bit, which is a real shame...
Mark
No secret squirrel stuff, I was just offering an alternative, to those who feel uncomfortable in posting where the whole world can see what they say. Besides, by emailing me direct, I also thought that I would get a more frank and thus honest response, and thus it turned out.
Take a close look at Stewarts post, it covers a lot that has be said to me off site.
John
Composition is all about personal opinion, you either like it or not, if you don’t then it is obviously helpful to mention why not.
Whether you agree with what the BBC does, or not, is irrelevant to the above question. I only referred to the article for its general content. If you disagree with what they do, then say so, in such a way as to help photographers to adopt good practices.
But don’t kid yourself, people will for example use calls, and not just birds calls, for example, fish leaping, frogs croaking, animals in distress etc.. By the way, I know for a fact that you have praised images where calls were used, and you will see images again, where they have been used. I know because I do on occasion use them, I just don’t admit to it, because I can just do without the flack, besides no one else was present, so how it was done etc. only I know, and people make assumptions, usually incorrect ones. Surely, it is best to discuss these things in a open and a constructive manner, than to drive it underground. It is, for me, fundamentally wrong to force your own views and opinions onto others, discuss openly and in a friendly manner without any derogatory remarks, after all you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.
Peter
Yes, the standard is getting higher, but I would submit that it has little to do with the photographers themselves, but more to do with the equipment now available on the open market. Would the current images be there if we were still using plate cameras, and because the current cameras and lenses are so user friendly, then people with relatively little fieldcraft can use them.
Using the forum to foresee trends in photography, although obviously of some use, I would use some caution, as I would be looking more at the international publications, and not just N.H./photographic ones, but fashion etc., after all they all use images in their marketing.
You mention Snowy Owls, well I would suggest that any these rare subjects, eagles, Snow Leopards etc., are photographers “Blue Ribbon” subjects, and with only a few exceptions, are only of use for the odd specialised article, and not for high volume sales. The Esso Tiger shots comes to mind, I believe this was a commissioned shot, taken it North America at a game farm. Although I will admit, the more extensive a professional/semi-professionals library is, the better.
You say and I quote :”I also learn about current thought processes within the nature photography community”, this is at odds with a number of the emails that I received This forum is perceived by some as a “Mutual Appreciation Forum”, infact, in one email, it was stated that once the author was noticed, they could quote who would comment and upto a certain point, even write the reply, irrespective of its actual quality of the image.
Peter sorry to go on, but again to quote you: “I'd personally like to hear more - and therefore learn about - photographer's perspectives, irrespective of the make of their equipment”. I would suggest that 80-90% of any image is a direst result of the photographer themselves. If the resultant image is c**p, then no matter what you do in Photoshop, it invariable still remains c**p.
I personally have little interest in this post processing thing, which is a fixation with so many. Photoshop can be learnt, getting an eye for an image has to be nurtured/developed, but many think that Photoshop is the latest panacea, for all there woes.
Stewart, most of what you have written is mirrored in the emails which I received. Going on about that blade of grass is invariable all that most can say. In a recent post of mine a Black-Headed Bunting singing, in my open speal I said what I anticipated was the comments that would be made, basically saying that I thought it was large and how it could be corrected, and how I came to take it. All the comments repeated what I had already stated, with no reference to the bird itself re detail, exposure, pose etc., left me wondering why I posted it.
When you refer to “Neat Image” you are right, but surely this should be tempered with appreciation of what the author was trying to depict. I personally always try to say why something does work for me, and not leave it as a bland statement.
Steward, and this is a sincere thing, if you see any of my posts please feel free to comment as you think fit. I‘ve’ frequently been in discussions with a number of members from here about hides and techniques in general, so please don’t hesitate in contacting me if you feel I can help in anyway.
Philip you’re not “stealing” the post far from it. I think one of the threads you are referring to, is Stephen Kaluski’s Red-legged Partridge - (Alectoris rufa) look and see who started the discussion off !!!!
Mark
Take a look at my ratio of topics to replies, in my image postings, and then how many actually comment on my work.
I’ve just put it down to ******* and that I’m not in the in crowd, which I can easily live with, much like yourself.
Mark I do hope that you and Stewart aren’t too much of a stranger, as I think it is going to become increasingly lonely here.
Bu**er, that means more lost sleep.
Now lets take that word “tripod”, which is all too often quoted in posts re mounting info.
Now this is relevant, so bear with me.
Yesterday, I was at the London Wetland centre, minding my own business, when this fella walked in sporting a Nikkor 200-400. As is the way of things, we got into conversation, and he commented on my “tripod” which was supporting my 600 + converter. He was amazed at how freely it moved.
I took my 600 off and put up my 200-400 + converter and camera. Again, he was surprised as to how freely it moved.
Now what is behind that word “tripod” which is what I would quote on any topic which I posted here. ???
Well, it was a Gitzo 1548, old number, carbon fibre tripod with a Wimberley Mk II, but between the two was a Manfrotto 438 levelling device. There was also a triangular “apron” tied between the legs, so that I have all those othee bits and bobs to hand. After further conversation, he then asked if he could take a note of the “tripod”, and take a shot of my locking system which I had added between the Gitzo’s mounting plate and the levelling device, there is already a locking device between the leveller and the Wimberley. As an aside as I was in a public hide, no hood was fitted.
Now all this is hidden behind that one word “tripod”. By the way, I use a different set-up when working from a car. But I still just use the word “tripod” which I use.
Get the point.
Now can you image what I really mean with the word(s), “hide/blind”.
Now, in the past I have mentioned for example, Photoshop training CD’s/DVD together with DVD’s covering aspects of N.H. photography, starting from the basics and then going onwards and upwards, but there is/has been no interest, so now I don’t bother.
You know I must be really thick, as I leant something new from each CD/DVD particularly the Lightroom one.
Recently I mentioned that I was going to build a few new feeding stations, which included some water features. Only one person contacted me about it, and that was Terri, and is relatively new to the hobby. We’ve had a few trips out, and the stations are progressing nicely. At one point, I mentioned a slight problem which had been niggling at me for sometime, Terri drawing on her gardening experience made a few suggestions and all is sorted. This is what it is all about, a cross exchange of ideas, a true win, win situation. One of the first major problems was getting fresh tea/coffee, so again after some discussion, we have now decided to incorporate tea making facilities into the two hides we are building.
Now these stations have worked out really well with just the two of us, but looking at the subjects we are getting in I do know one thing. Once we are fully up and running, the world and his brother will be knocking on our door, and it will be too late then.
I’ve made the offers but no takers, other than Terri, that in itself must tell you something.
Now to get out of my pram so to speak. I have in the passed suggested flipping an image, one serious feed back was that that would mean that it would be upside down, give me strength. If you remembered I posted a thread about “Low Level Shooting” and the first reply was something along the lines of: “Are you trying to teach us how to suck eggs”. We all have to learn everything at some point, and because you know something. doesn’t mean everyone else does.
Such disparaging/derogatory comments only make me smile, as I think it says far more about them than it does anything else. But, and it is a big BUT, it has made me seriously consider how I will comment/post in the future. I shall definitely be very circumspect in my posts in the future.
Finally, don’t just look at an image and the associated comments, try and look beyond and try to see what was intended to be captured, and then comment accordingly.
Well that’s it, sorry for going on.
Pity that this thread is scrolling down the page, as I thing that there could be some very useful thoughts offered/added.
Firstly let me bloody well done!! its about time there were some home truths on this forum,and I feel very much in line with all that you have said. I feel sure "the Mods" have been watching this thread,and while I know they have a job to do,I always feel that they only appear when someone steps over the line,perhaps they could get more actively involved in trying to improve this forum,and give some guidance to people posting as to what are useful comments and what are not........
I am sure you have had some very interesting e-mails sent to you direct,and its a shame that we can't all read them but I understand the reason why,but reading between the lines there's alot of room for improvement. If it happens then I for one would renew my membership..
Stewart.....
I am pretty inactive on here, but I am with my photography too, due to personal reasons and medical, but do make a comment every now and again, and probably in the mould that a lot of others do and the type I moan about........ time is precious!
I just don't like the PM's Ray as it falls outside the forum and like I said, I'm probably a bit nosey and wnat to know what is actually going on. Good thread though....
Thank you all for your comments and insights both in this and on John's topic too - all points of view are welcomed & noted.
We are looking to improve the forums and how they work, and some work is in hand - although as the Mods have to earn their living elsewhere, putting a crust on the table has to take 1st priority and can sometimes mean things go slower than we would otherwise like.
The Mods will reply with our thoughts and views in due course
While I commend your effort to try stimulate debate, your rather long, self indulgent and tedious response to what others have posted in this thread, undermines your original posting.
Knowing that you used a Crapzo tripod, with a thingy in the middle to support a MkII head informs me, not in the slightest, about how I can improve my photography. If I take a shot using a tripod (whatever the make, model, combination) and the image is sharp, then the tripod works! If a 'newbee' wants to know what tripod to buy they can post and ask. Besides, am I right in thinking there is an Equipment forum on NPN?
Back to your original question: What do I learn from posting on this site? I recently learned from Phil H how to approach damselflys (because I posted and asked). I've learned about stacked focussed images (because someone posted and asked). Perhaps most importantly, I've learned that the quality of my own work has to be higher to ‘compete’. Thus, I strive to improve by studying some of the outstanding images posted. I apply what I've learned using my own style.
Observations (not necessarily criticisms):
1. In the year or so I've been posting here, I've noticed that it seems to be becoming a 'bird-ographer' site - it appears that there are more posts containing bird images and these receive the most comment; much of it congratulatory i.e. well done for adding this one to the 'tick-list'.
2. There a too few photographers posting here who are willing to take a risk - the images posted are perfect and the approach is safe, therefore, the chance for critical comment is much reduced.
3. Perhaps those who feel the forum is not what it used to be, should point us in the direction of a 'good' forum?
4. If you are posting here (comments or images), you should be prepared to take any criticism you might receive, squarely on the chin.
Cheers,
Chris
Tim