Not one for posting non-image postings, this time I thought I would post one. Not sure how well this might be received, but here goes.
Although I do not contribute a huge amount I have been a member for sometime now and have notice that the Forum has lost a few of it's teeth, however I am not going to go down that old chestnut.
To me it appears that any newbie has evolved from a 'lurker', often been put off by the following: author (ie well known), standard, quality, or in very minor cases, replies possibly, etc? Therefore, could there be a section where one can post anonymously without the reader knowing who the author is. This also would be interesting to see the amount of replies the images gets and would be a good barometer, as I do feel that replies are submitted purely on the bases of the author rather than the image sometimes. This is not sour grapes in any way, I just think that a Forum should evolve via new thoughts & blood rather than continuing down one route. It might also offer 'newbies & current members' feedback that they might not have received due to anonymity. Would this work?
I am not the worlds greatest wordsmith so hopefully the reader will be able to distill what I am trying to say?
Steve
PS Can 'nice' & 'pleasing' be removed from the Forum
Posted by John Robinson on August 6, 2009 at 9:09 AM
Stephen
I have to say I agree with you. Something seems to have gone wrong just lately and I myself have been wondering too.You have certainly raised some very valid points. One answer is that people are too busy to comment at this time of year.
Like I always say- if an image of mine gets few comments than it must be so good that no one can think of any comment
Cheers
JohnR
Ah Jeremy will have a look, but guess it needs to be more visible or is that a contradiction?
Thanks John, not sure about the busy time of year, perhaps it's just taking time to look at an image, plus some postings might just not 'float your boat' and therefore you pass on making a comment? Who knows, but how to add a few more crowns to give the Forum a bit more bite and sparkle I'm not to sure
Jeremy has pointed out the trial gallery on the main site, unfortunately it is not well used so I would urge those that want to partake of this service to use it. It matters not if it is on UKNP or NPN as it is anonymous.
UKNP would be also reluctant to introduce anonymity as we attribute the good conduct of this forum partially to the fact that, other than a few requested exceptions, we request that people post under their name. It's their name to sully if they misbehave
Also we do not currently have a gallery forum and discussion forum system, everything is posted on a discussion forum although this is now under review and changes are being discussed: i.e. currently we could not facilitate one.
I do agree that " I just think that a Forum should evolve via new thoughts & blood rather than continuing down one route...? but with one caveat and that is that these new thoughts need to be fed through, and agreed by, the owners/mods simply as it is us that have to look after the well being of the forum and therefore, whilst some ideas may be excellent, they may not be possible due to expected levels of 'looking' after required. Historically have all seen what happens when certain subjects are introduced
I do agree that there are several cliques (friends) and that is only natural when any society when it gets to a certain size, but I also agree that there is an increasing amount of glad-handling within the forum, this is life, but I think we can all see it for what (and who) it is.
All new ideas for taking the forum forward are always welcome, we normally collect these at the conference, but they are welcome via email as well.
The forum will be changing, its the time scale (Jim, Nick and I do have jobs) that is uncertain
Perhaps the posting should have been more of a PM rather than an 'open book' However, I trust this was taken in the spirit that it was intended for, rather than anything else.
I was going to reply to this earlier but wasn't quite sure what I wanted to say. Having thought about it, its your observation about the forum losing some of its "teeth" that I'd like to pick up on, briefly.
This is not intended to be a direct dig at you, although I will use your 'Bashful' post to illustrate a point.
In said post you wrote: "Not a great shot, just a bit of fun." You then went on to discuss the lack of comment afforded certain posts. To my mind (which is no yard-stick, by any means) your post, in terms of attracting critique on a critique forum, was rendered dead-in-the-water by the words ". . . just a bit of fun". This led me to ponder if the images we post (and the accompanying comment) are stimulating enough to attract feedback?
I concluded that, along with the work done by the Mods, it is the attitude of us, the photographers, that influences the continued success of this forum. One way in which we can play a positive role is by posting more challenging images? This moves us away from ‘window-dressing’ pictures, to images that stimulate debate.
As I said, I’m not having a pop at you in particular, just sharing an observation - I hope I’ve not caused you any offence.
Hi Chris, appreciate your comment, but you say 'I’m not having a pop at you in particular,' which could imply you are, however that is NOT the point, nor do I take offence.
I think you have raised a valid point here. I do agree that perhaps we don't always look at what we post possibly hard enough in all respects to an image and possibly some are very pedestrian in their nature, however I do agree with what you conclude with. The only point I would raise is that a it might put off 'newbies' or those starting out wanting helpful criticism to build on and we have all been there.
Perhaps being more selective on posting might help with more constructive, positive comments being posted. The rate might drop, but would the quality rise? I guess this is all 'Food for thought'
cheers
Steve
Posted by Mark Hamblin on August 7, 2009 at 2:07 PM
I think one issue is that 'we' are far more likely to comment (favourably) on shots that we really like than those that either are nice / pleasant or are perhaps not up to scratch. In an era when images that really make folks sit up and take notice are becoming harder and harder to attain it is not surprising that so many images, whilst very competent and technically excellent raise little more than ' oh, that's nice' kind of comment. We are all victims of the image overload phenomenon that has followed digital photography especially in the last few years when the standard has in my opinion gone to another level. The vast majority of folks on here are very competent photographers producing some excellent work and that in itself may intimidate some from contributing themselves, which is a real shame. It perhaps depends how important the comments are to you and if you want constructive critisism to help take your photography forward - I guess that many do. That said even without comments I think that most folks and I certainly include myself have learnt a great deal or been inspired by what they have seen posted. I do think that there could be more of an effort made in some cases to explain how a shot was obtained particularly in terms of fieldcraft skills / approach taken / specific techniques etc. from which others could learn / glean information. As Chris alludes too as well, we should all perhaps be thinking outside of the box when it comes to producing fresh material to avoid simply repeating what has been done before. Not easy though! But one way to get lots of comments!
I am effectively what you call a lurker, but I am currently on a fast track course in natural history photography, but with the emphasis on as Mark said above, fieldcraft skills / approach.
So with that in mind, I can honestly say, that I have learnt little to nothing about fieldcraft skills and approach on this site, but I would say, that this is a great site for show casing your images, and to learn about composition and yes, Photoshop. Not what I personally, and I am sure many others, want.
Just my two pence worth.
Posted by Barry Southon on August 9, 2009 at 6:28 AM
Steve
I'm so pleased that you raised these points I too have noticed the changes within the forum. The development of cliques diminishes the value of comments. I was a lurker for some time then took the plunge I feel that I have had the benefit of a wealth of knowledge imparted albeit I have struggled. The ratio of comments is an interesting factor but for me I see no value in ego enhancement. What I do appreciate is the detailed data provided on all manner of shots by professionals who earn their living from the art.
The forum is still top line and thanks for raising the topic
I do feel that replies are submitted purely on the bases of the author rather than the image sometimes.
This is an observation that seems to crop up from time to time on this forum - more so than any other forum I visit. In fact, this is the only forum where it does crop up...very strange...
Discussion
12 repliesNot one for posting non-image postings, this time I thought I would post one. Not sure how well this might be received, but here goes.
Although I do not contribute a huge amount I have been a member for sometime now and have notice that the Forum has lost a few of it's teeth, however I am not going to go down that old chestnut.
To me it appears that any newbie has evolved from a 'lurker', often been put off by the following: author (ie well known), standard, quality, or in very minor cases, replies possibly, etc? Therefore, could there be a section where one can post anonymously without the reader knowing who the author is. This also would be interesting to see the amount of replies the images gets and would be a good barometer, as I do feel that replies are submitted purely on the bases of the author rather than the image sometimes. This is not sour grapes in any way, I just think that a Forum should evolve via new thoughts & blood rather than continuing down one route. It might also offer 'newbies & current members' feedback that they might not have received due to anonymity. Would this work?
I am not the worlds greatest wordsmith so hopefully the reader will be able to distill what I am trying to say?
Steve
PS Can 'nice' & 'pleasing' be removed from the Forum
Although, with only two photos, it doesn't seem the idea is too popular!
I have to say I agree with you. Something seems to have gone wrong just lately and I myself have been wondering too.You have certainly raised some very valid points. One answer is that people are too busy to comment at this time of year.
Like I always say- if an image of mine gets few comments than it must be so good that no one can think of any comment
Cheers
JohnR
Thanks John, not sure about the busy time of year, perhaps it's just taking time to look at an image, plus some postings might just not 'float your boat' and therefore you pass on making a comment? Who knows, but how to add a few more crowns to give the Forum a bit more bite and sparkle I'm not to sure
Cheers
Steve
Stephen,
Jeremy has pointed out the trial gallery on the main site, unfortunately it is not well used so I would urge those that want to partake of this service to use it. It matters not if it is on UKNP or NPN as it is anonymous.
UKNP would be also reluctant to introduce anonymity as we attribute the good conduct of this forum partially to the fact that, other than a few requested exceptions, we request that people post under their name. It's their name to sully if they misbehave
Also we do not currently have a gallery forum and discussion forum system, everything is posted on a discussion forum although this is now under review and changes are being discussed: i.e. currently we could not facilitate one.
I do agree that " I just think that a Forum should evolve via new thoughts & blood rather than continuing down one route...? but with one caveat and that is that these new thoughts need to be fed through, and agreed by, the owners/mods simply as it is us that have to look after the well being of the forum and therefore, whilst some ideas may be excellent, they may not be possible due to expected levels of 'looking' after required. Historically have all seen what happens when certain subjects are introduced
I do agree that there are several cliques (friends) and that is only natural when any society when it gets to a certain size, but I also agree that there is an increasing amount of glad-handling within the forum, this is life, but I think we can all see it for what (and who) it is.
All new ideas for taking the forum forward are always welcome, we normally collect these at the conference, but they are welcome via email as well.
The forum will be changing, its the time scale (Jim, Nick and I do have jobs) that is uncertain
T
T
Perhaps the posting should have been more of a PM rather than an 'open book'
Thank you
No problem, and it is heartening to see that people have the forums continued success in their mind.
T
I was going to reply to this earlier but wasn't quite sure what I wanted to say. Having thought about it, its your observation about the forum losing some of its "teeth" that I'd like to pick up on, briefly.
This is not intended to be a direct dig at you, although I will use your 'Bashful' post to illustrate a point.
In said post you wrote: "Not a great shot, just a bit of fun." You then went on to discuss the lack of comment afforded certain posts. To my mind (which is no yard-stick, by any means) your post, in terms of attracting critique on a critique forum, was rendered dead-in-the-water by the words ". . . just a bit of fun". This led me to ponder if the images we post (and the accompanying comment) are stimulating enough to attract feedback?
I concluded that, along with the work done by the Mods, it is the attitude of us, the photographers, that influences the continued success of this forum. One way in which we can play a positive role is by posting more challenging images? This moves us away from ‘window-dressing’ pictures, to images that stimulate debate.
As I said, I’m not having a pop at you in particular, just sharing an observation - I hope I’ve not caused you any offence.
Cheers,
Chris
I think you have raised a valid point here. I do agree that perhaps we don't always look at what we post possibly hard enough in all respects to an image and possibly some are very pedestrian in their nature, however I do agree with what you conclude with. The only point I would raise is that a it might put off 'newbies' or those starting out wanting helpful criticism to build on and we have all been there.
Perhaps being more selective on posting might help with more constructive, positive comments being posted. The rate might drop, but would the quality rise? I guess this is all 'Food for thought'
cheers
Steve
I am effectively what you call a lurker, but I am currently on a fast track course in natural history photography, but with the emphasis on as Mark said above, fieldcraft skills / approach.
So with that in mind, I can honestly say, that I have learnt little to nothing about fieldcraft skills and approach on this site, but I would say, that this is a great site for show casing your images, and to learn about composition and yes, Photoshop. Not what I personally, and I am sure many others, want.
Just my two pence worth.
I'm so pleased that you raised these points I too have noticed the changes within the forum. The development of cliques diminishes the value of comments. I was a lurker for some time then took the plunge I feel that I have had the benefit of a wealth of knowledge imparted albeit I have struggled. The ratio of comments is an interesting factor but for me I see no value in ego enhancement. What I do appreciate is the detailed data provided on all manner of shots by professionals who earn their living from the art.
The forum is still top line and thanks for raising the topic
This is an observation that seems to crop up from time to time on this forum - more so than any other forum I visit. In fact, this is the only forum where it does crop up...very strange...