I do most of my macro shots with flash, to minimize all the kinds of blur possible. Got a new flash unit that uses two AAA batteries. Got at least 150 shots with two Energizer "max" (1.5V) batteries; then my NiMH (1.2V) batteries arrived, and I got far fewer shots despite all the spec sheets' saying "100 with alkaline, more with rechargeable." Then I used the 2nd two NiMH batteries and they seem to have lasted about a dozen shots. I have since written numbers on the batteries, and I think #3 and #4 repeated that last disappointing experience despite my having made sure I charged them for eight hours (instructions: "6-8 hrs").
I was about to buy a set of new ones and a new charger from Radio Shack at 3X the cost of the others, thinking they'd be better quality, but first I read the users' reviews. Then I read more reviews, of Sony AAAs. Decidedly mixed, with some strong negatives no matter what brand. I thought maybe it was the 1.5 volts, but I saw that Kodak batteries for flash are 1.25V.
Will some kind soul please demystify NiMH batteries for me? Please include info on how long to leave them in the charger after they've been charged, how long they're likely to hold the charge before being used, all the simple stuff I (obviously) need to know.
We use NiMH extensively in our flashes, but they're AA rather than AAA. And in our uses they live up to the claims, both for improved performance in the strobes and for long life. We # ours as well, but more to keep them in "sets" for recharging and use, as well as age identification. We get at least a couple of years of steady use from ours, along with much faster recycling of strobes and more shots per charge.
I can't imagine there's any inherent difference in yours and ours other than size, especially considering the service you are getting from alkaline. That leaves the question of which charger you are using.
When we first bought NiMH long ago, they came with a little charger hardly larger than a couple of batteries that plugged right into the wall. And it was next to worthless!!!!! It took at least 24 hours to bring them to reasonable charge levels and longer was better. In frustration we bought a larger charger from Radioshack. It held up to 8 AAAs rather than two and had indicator lights for charge level.
Presto! That unit works so well that we now own 4 of them for charging more batteries at once during busy periods, and they each will charge a set fully in around 8 hours. And coming out of that variety of charger, the batteries live up to all claims.
If your charger is one of those tiny little units with no cord that plugs directly into a wall socket, I'm betting it's the root of your problem. We once carried ours on trips due to their small size, but now pack one of the larger ones. I'm sure our little models are around here somewhere, but it's been so long since we used them I bet it would take a while to find them!
Posted by Kent Staubus on August 7, 2009 at 10:51 AM
I have ten Nikon flash that I use, and 48 rechargeable batteries. These are all AA batteries though, and seem to have plenty of power. Most all of these batteries (40) are Kodak. There are basically two types of NIMH batteries. One is the standard kind. These include the Energizer, Kodak that are in green label, and most all NiMH. They will hold a charge something like 4-6 months. They also tend to to have the highest power capacity of the two types. The second type are the low discharge. These include the Kodaks with white labels, and Eneloops etc. Walmart has the Kodak AAA (& AA) white label in their photo dept. They should stay charged for a year, but have slightly lower power capcacity. One other thing I'll mention is NiMH batteries don't like to be dropped. Not sure why, but dropping them on a hard surface seems to kill them. For a charger I always use a slow charging cycle, NEVER a fast (i.e. 1 hour) cycle. I have a MaHa charger which works very well. I generally take my batteries out as soon as they've finished, but that's mainly because it takes about 2.5 hours for recharge and I only have 8 slots on my charger. It takes most of a day to recharge all 48 batteries!
All rechargeables are 1.2 volts. This doesn't seem to matter. One other thing I've noticed about NiMH batteries is they seem to need breaking in. I don't get the best performance out of them until after about five recharge cycles. I'm not sure how many flashes I get from a set as compared to alkalines, but that doesn't matter for me since I use flash very differently. Mine must sit for hours out in below zero cold before they're used to take a shot. Alkalines simply don't hold up at all in the cold, but the NiMH hold up even at 30 below zero.
I've not used AAA batteries but suspect they are being pushed to the limit to power a flash. Getting only a dozen shots seems to be very low though. Try several more discharge and recharge cycles and see if they improve. If not, try the Kodaks. One thing I'll mention is I keep two sets (8) of Energizer lithium batteries (not rechargeable, silver lable) in my bag. These are spares for if I start having trouble. These seem to have the most flash capacity, and work well even at 40 below zero. (That is important for me.) Like you, I use my batteries as a team. I have them marked with letters in sets of four, and keep them together as a team. If you can get up to at least 50 flash from the rechargeables, they will likely be more economical. Otherwise, you might have to go with the cheapest alkalines you can find. I saw a pack of 30 Rayovacs on clearance at Walmart for $7 the other day. I bought two packs of the AA. Another thought is to use Energizer lithium AAA, but those are very expensive. I only use them in a pinch or when it's very cold.
The chargers I've used do seem to make a difference. The cheap chargers that usually come with batteries aren't very good. When one battery is fully charged they seem to switch off charging to the others. The MaHa I use is a smart charger and charges each battery individually. I have the 8 slot recharger because of the pile of batteries I have, but they also make a 4 slot. You can also find this charger for less money than Amazon if you shop. Here's a link to the description anyway. I'm active on another forum that's full of people who are HEAVY users of NiMH batteries for flash, and most all of these people use either the MaHa or LaCrosse chargers.
These chargers seem expensive, but they DO work, and very very well. For someone like me who is a heavy battery user they absolutely save money. Imagine if I had to buy 40 Enerizer lithium batteries ($17/8) to power my 10 Nikon SB-28 flash. Just one purchase alone would equal what a good charger cost!
Posted by Kent Staubus on August 7, 2009 at 11:12 AM
From the MaHa website:
"New batteries and those stored for extended period become chemically deactivated. Battery forming is a charge-discharge-charge cycle which forces a full charge into the battery at a very slow rate. This process activates the battery. In certain cases, it needs to be repeated two or three times."
I thought so! This is what I called "breaking in" above.
Kent in SD
Posted by Kent Staubus on August 7, 2009 at 11:30 AM
You are in luck! The LaCrosse charger is on sale at Amazon at a huge discount! It's only a 4 slot, but I bet it will work for you.
Thanks very much! I just bought the LaCrosse charger on sale at Amazon.
(The charger I have is the little one that plugs directly into the wall receptacle.)
Rosemarie
Posted by Kent Staubus on August 8, 2009 at 12:40 AM
The more I think about it, the more I think your problem was the cheap charger you were using. Let us know how this one works out. I'm guessing you bought the La Crosse 700?
Kent, I bought the one you linked to, the La Cross BC-9009. Is that one okay?
Posted by Kent Staubus on August 8, 2009 at 12:51 PM
It's a SUPER recharger! I think your problems are over. When I got the MaHa I was surprised at just how big a difference the recharger makes. The LaCrosse is another excellent brand, and you got it for a steal!
Discussion
9 repliesI was about to buy a set of new ones and a new charger from Radio Shack at 3X the cost of the others, thinking they'd be better quality, but first I read the users' reviews. Then I read more reviews, of Sony AAAs. Decidedly mixed, with some strong negatives no matter what brand. I thought maybe it was the 1.5 volts, but I saw that Kodak batteries for flash are 1.25V.
Will some kind soul please demystify NiMH batteries for me? Please include info on how long to leave them in the charger after they've been charged, how long they're likely to hold the charge before being used, all the simple stuff I (obviously) need to know.
That does sound like an impossible situation!
We use NiMH extensively in our flashes, but they're AA rather than AAA. And in our uses they live up to the claims, both for improved performance in the strobes and for long life. We # ours as well, but more to keep them in "sets" for recharging and use, as well as age identification. We get at least a couple of years of steady use from ours, along with much faster recycling of strobes and more shots per charge.
I can't imagine there's any inherent difference in yours and ours other than size, especially considering the service you are getting from alkaline. That leaves the question of which charger you are using.
When we first bought NiMH long ago, they came with a little charger hardly larger than a couple of batteries that plugged right into the wall. And it was next to worthless!!!!! It took at least 24 hours to bring them to reasonable charge levels and longer was better. In frustration we bought a larger charger from Radioshack. It held up to 8 AAAs rather than two and had indicator lights for charge level.
Presto! That unit works so well that we now own 4 of them for charging more batteries at once during busy periods, and they each will charge a set fully in around 8 hours. And coming out of that variety of charger, the batteries live up to all claims.
If your charger is one of those tiny little units with no cord that plugs directly into a wall socket, I'm betting it's the root of your problem. We once carried ours on trips due to their small size, but now pack one of the larger ones. I'm sure our little models are around here somewhere, but it's been so long since we used them I bet it would take a while to find them!
All rechargeables are 1.2 volts. This doesn't seem to matter. One other thing I've noticed about NiMH batteries is they seem to need breaking in. I don't get the best performance out of them until after about five recharge cycles. I'm not sure how many flashes I get from a set as compared to alkalines, but that doesn't matter for me since I use flash very differently. Mine must sit for hours out in below zero cold before they're used to take a shot. Alkalines simply don't hold up at all in the cold, but the NiMH hold up even at 30 below zero.
I've not used AAA batteries but suspect they are being pushed to the limit to power a flash. Getting only a dozen shots seems to be very low though. Try several more discharge and recharge cycles and see if they improve. If not, try the Kodaks. One thing I'll mention is I keep two sets (8) of Energizer lithium batteries (not rechargeable, silver lable) in my bag. These are spares for if I start having trouble. These seem to have the most flash capacity, and work well even at 40 below zero. (That is important for me.) Like you, I use my batteries as a team. I have them marked with letters in sets of four, and keep them together as a team. If you can get up to at least 50 flash from the rechargeables, they will likely be more economical. Otherwise, you might have to go with the cheapest alkalines you can find. I saw a pack of 30 Rayovacs on clearance at Walmart for $7 the other day. I bought two packs of the AA. Another thought is to use Energizer lithium AAA, but those are very expensive. I only use them in a pinch or when it's very cold.
The chargers I've used do seem to make a difference. The cheap chargers that usually come with batteries aren't very good. When one battery is fully charged they seem to switch off charging to the others. The MaHa I use is a smart charger and charges each battery individually. I have the 8 slot recharger because of the pile of batteries I have, but they also make a 4 slot. You can also find this charger for less money than Amazon if you shop. Here's a link to the description anyway. I'm active on another forum that's full of people who are HEAVY users of NiMH batteries for flash, and most all of these people use either the MaHa or LaCrosse chargers.
http://tinyurl.com/mebw5p
http://tinyurl.com/63y7rc
http://www.lacrossetechnology.com/900/index.php
These chargers seem expensive, but they DO work, and very very well. For someone like me who is a heavy battery user they absolutely save money. Imagine if I had to buy 40 Enerizer lithium batteries ($17/8) to power my 10 Nikon SB-28 flash. Just one purchase alone would equal what a good charger cost!
Here's the sort of thing I'm doing with my poor little SB-28 flash. This is a small scale shot, for me:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3426/3386859550_22ab7d5e91_o.jpg
Kent in SD
"New batteries and those stored for extended period become chemically deactivated. Battery forming is a charge-discharge-charge cycle which forces a full charge into the battery at a very slow rate. This process activates the battery. In certain cases, it needs to be repeated two or three times."
I thought so! This is what I called "breaking in" above.
Kent in SD
http://tinyurl.com/mtlvcq
Kent in SD
For about 2 years so far
I have 4 sets and they all still work. At least 50 shots a day with them.
(The charger I have is the little one that plugs directly into the wall receptacle.)
Rosemarie
Kent in SD
Kent in SD