Posted by Bill Dark on September 2, 2009 at 10:00 PM
In an effort to achieve more accurate color, I guess I'm going to have to profile my projector. Does anyone have any experience profiling their projector with the ColorMunki spectrophotometer? It's really the only device out there for less than $1K, but I'd like to see good results.
Posted by TIMERNST on September 3, 2009 at 9:25 AM
No experience with the monkey, but I've heard both rave reviews and terrible results with it, so I guess it just depends. Most digital projectors output terrible color and contrast, despite all the sales hype. A good custom profile can save the day, however not all projectors can utilize one. I've always used one of the units that was more than $1K and have been really happy with the results (Eye One Better Beamer) - I guess you get what you pay for.
A couple of things to think about. First, the only people who know (or care) what good color is and would ever give a hoot are photographers - and you've already given your show to the worst group you will ever encounter in this regard (the photography club). No one else will ever notice or care.
And secondly, if you do get your system all tuned up so that you are happy with it (which means a much better projector than any XGA system which still won't even come close to matching projected film - but most of the HD projectors simply are not bright enough), many of the places you will give programs at will insist that you use their "state of the art" expensive equipment. I've NEVER found any system that could match my own personal tuned gear, even though some of them cost more than 100 grand. (An example - I was forced to use the very expensive system in the Governor's mansion last year for a program - the images looked horrible, and there was no way for me to make a custom profile - but the food was really good!) You can always just hold your nose and do the presentation anyway, but you have been warned!
The sound system is another matter, and some venues will have great systems, but most are not set up for music but rather for voice and unless you have someone who knows what they are doing operating the system you can have terrible results. As an example, I do use the great sound system at the Lyric Theater in Harrison when I'm there (but not their very expensive projector). But most sound really bad and makes you look really bad too, so it is best to provide your own stereo system for any soundtrack you have.
I've given more than 2,000 slide programs with music over the past 30 years, and I still get a lump in my throat and butterflies in my gut every time I hit the "start" button for fear that it won't be perfect - if you care about your work and your presentation that is just part of the job....
Posted by Bill Dark on September 3, 2009 at 1:04 PM
Thanks for taking time to share your experience, Tim. I too have heard good and bad things about the ColorMunki, it just depends on who you talk to I guess. Color HQ thought there might be some issues, but Chromix said it should work great. Both of them sell the product.
My projector is a Canon Realis x600 LCOS that has RGB, brightness, and contrast adjustments, so I think it's at least possible that the color could be improved. Most of the colors look pretty good, but it seems to have a problem with purples - too saturated.
A colormunki does a decent job calibrating a projector. It would be a shame to buy one if all you want to do is the projector though. It is also possible to use a normal colorimeter to make a projector profile. I don't think it's documented anywhere but the idea is to hold up the colorimeter at an angle, fairly close to the screen so that the sensor can pick up the colors on the screen, but not so close that you're causing a shadow to fall on the screen.
We tested a lot of projectors for a project a couple of years ago, and here are some of our findings that might be useful:
- Most projectors have a set of color modes with names like "theater," "movie," "PC," or "Presentation". - The theater or movie mode will give you the widest color gamut the projector is capable of, but usually at the expense of brightness.
- Most projectors come with the default mode set to one of the high brightness modes rather than the high saturation mode.
- DLP projectors are especially susceptible to this saturation-vs.-brightness issue.
Patrick Herold
Tech Support
www.chromix.com
Posted by TIMERNST on September 3, 2009 at 2:05 PM
You've certainly got plenty of brightness with that projector and I much prefer the LCOS to the other alternatives (in fact DLP just plain sucks). Another factor in all of this is that different projection screens will alter the color balance and gamut, sometimes by quite a bit. (And I would stay AWAY from the fancy movie modes and stick with normal or sRGB if you want true color and not wild, oversaturated colors.) I have four different screens that I travel with, and the only time I will use a screen that is provided by the facility is if it is larger than my 9 x 12 screen (which is the largest I can easily transport). With the really big screens I will take my Eye One Beamer with me and make a profile on the spot so their screen does not mess things up...
Posted by Bill Dark on September 3, 2009 at 3:19 PM
Thanks Patrick and Tim. I already have an Eye-one display colorimeter, so I may give that a try. And it's nice to know that the LCOS technology was worth the extra expense.
By the way, I can attest to outstanding customer service and technical support from the folks at Chromix. Their media profiles are the best - especially canvas.
Discussion
5 repliesA couple of things to think about. First, the only people who know (or care) what good color is and would ever give a hoot are photographers - and you've already given your show to the worst group you will ever encounter in this regard (the photography club). No one else will ever notice or care.
And secondly, if you do get your system all tuned up so that you are happy with it (which means a much better projector than any XGA system which still won't even come close to matching projected film - but most of the HD projectors simply are not bright enough), many of the places you will give programs at will insist that you use their "state of the art" expensive equipment. I've NEVER found any system that could match my own personal tuned gear, even though some of them cost more than 100 grand. (An example - I was forced to use the very expensive system in the Governor's mansion last year for a program - the images looked horrible, and there was no way for me to make a custom profile - but the food was really good!) You can always just hold your nose and do the presentation anyway, but you have been warned!
The sound system is another matter, and some venues will have great systems, but most are not set up for music but rather for voice and unless you have someone who knows what they are doing operating the system you can have terrible results. As an example, I do use the great sound system at the Lyric Theater in Harrison when I'm there (but not their very expensive projector). But most sound really bad and makes you look really bad too, so it is best to provide your own stereo system for any soundtrack you have.
I've given more than 2,000 slide programs with music over the past 30 years, and I still get a lump in my throat and butterflies in my gut every time I hit the "start" button for fear that it won't be perfect - if you care about your work and your presentation that is just part of the job....
My projector is a Canon Realis x600 LCOS that has RGB, brightness, and contrast adjustments, so I think it's at least possible that the color could be improved. Most of the colors look pretty good, but it seems to have a problem with purples - too saturated.
A colormunki does a decent job calibrating a projector. It would be a shame to buy one if all you want to do is the projector though. It is also possible to use a normal colorimeter to make a projector profile. I don't think it's documented anywhere but the idea is to hold up the colorimeter at an angle, fairly close to the screen so that the sensor can pick up the colors on the screen, but not so close that you're causing a shadow to fall on the screen.
We tested a lot of projectors for a project a couple of years ago, and here are some of our findings that might be useful:
- Most projectors have a set of color modes with names like "theater," "movie," "PC," or "Presentation". - The theater or movie mode will give you the widest color gamut the projector is capable of, but usually at the expense of brightness.
- Most projectors come with the default mode set to one of the high brightness modes rather than the high saturation mode.
- DLP projectors are especially susceptible to this saturation-vs.-brightness issue.
Patrick Herold
Tech Support
www.chromix.com
By the way, I can attest to outstanding customer service and technical support from the folks at Chromix. Their media profiles are the best - especially canvas.