OT: GND Filters

I am getting ready to purchase some GND filters, and I am having a bit of difficulty deciding which brand to go with. I know people swear by the Sing-Ray filters, but I have also heard some good things about Hitech filters. Being that I am looking at purchasing a .6 and .9, the cost is more than double for the Singh-Ray. Is the cost difference worth it? Would I be ok with the Hitech ones? I hear they are also truly neutral in color. Thanks for the info everyone. Hoping to put in an order tonight or tomorrow.

Hitech filters are not truly neutral. In fact, they are notorious for having a magenta color cast. And, they are small and much more difficult to place correctly. The Singh-Ray filters are absolutely neutral, much larger in size and are of a higher quality optical resin. Having said that, I just threw out my Singh-Ray GND's and have adopted the exposure blending method for the additional control it allows. You might consider it as an alternative and use the money you would have spent on filters each year to take a trip.

If you're convinced that you need GND's the Singh-Ray's are the way to go, IMHO.

On Tony L's recommendation I bought a total of 6 GND filters. They are Hi-Tech. I got 1,2,3 stop hard edge and 1,2,3 stop soft edge. They are way less expensive than the singh-ray and in my opinion, just as good. If you only get 3, I would recommend the soft edge for greater flexibility on uneven horizons. I got mine through B&H and I think they were around $29 each.

I just saw Bret's post and I agree about the blending method..I just haven't learned it. I use HDR quite often and that does work well. I need to practice the PS method and get rid of my filters because they do scratch pretty easy.

I'd have to agree with Bret as well. I used filters for a little while but just found them to be a waste as I was able to get better results using the blending method. I know a lot of people here use them with great results, I guess it's just a user preference.

Since I don't have the time (patience, actually) to do HDR, I use GND's and have had good results with Cokin P series filters. For me, the Singh-Rays are priced WAY out there...

I'll throw another brand out there....Lee filters. Also much cheaper than Singh-Rays (I don't know how they compare to Hitech) and neutral. While I often use software exposure blending, I still like to use filters for dynamically changing conditions and simpler scenes with reasonably straight horizons.

I have several Singh-Ray filters and like them a lot. I also just got a new lens, a 24-70 2.8, that I use for 90% of my photographs and has a filter size sufficiently large that terrible vignetting with the Singh-Ray is obvious with every shot. As an initial work-around I started blending multiple exposures. For me, the results are much better than what I was getting with a single image using a grad ND filter. I'll still use the Singh-Ray filters with the 4x5 camera (assuming I ever use it again) but for my DSLR I just don't need them anymore.

I also switched to digital blending 3-4 years ago, sold all my ND grads, and never looked back.
I used both Singh-Ray (good performance, scratch pretty easily) and Cokin (not as good performance, scratched if you just looked at them).

Another one who doesn't bother using GND filters.
Much more control and better results using blended exposures, and it's dead simple to achieve in the digital darkroom.

Bret/Brian, can you guys email me and give me a little more info on the blending method so I can practice this? Are we talking about taking the same image at different exposures, then doing selective blending in PS? If so, are you using AEB? If not, how do you deal with slight movements/shifts as you reset the exposure? Or are you taking the same RAW file and adjusting exposure (one for sky and another for the rest) and then saving them as two separate images and blending in PS? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Call me old school, I guess... I like doing things in-camera.

If not, how do you deal with slight movements/shifts as you reset the exposure?

After you move one image on top of the other while simultaneously using the Shift key to align them both, make both layers active and then use Edit->Auto-Align Layers. Fast, easy and it works well.

I almost always use two separate exposures rather than editing the same file twice. You can use AEB or just plain ol' exposure compensation.

Put one more down for the Lee system, Not as expensive as Singh Ray and they are the full size 4x6.

Hitech filters are not truly neutral. In fact, they are notorious for having a magenta color cast.

I swear this has to be a made up internet rumor. I've got 4 hitech GNDs plus a 4 stop ND. None have a magenta cast, all have a blue cast. I've measured it in a controlled fashion. In a truly strange twist, my single cokin GND was actually more neutral than the hitech filters, but still looks a bit muddy to me.

What I have heard of the Hitech ND filters is that they do not block IR light, and as a result with strong ND effects and a camera with higher IR sensitivity the IR will create an impact on the image and can be construed as a magenta cast. Supposedly the Singh Ray ND filters do block IR at the same rate and prevent this situation. FWIW, most digital cameras use a good IR cut filter in front of the sensor because the sensors are sensitive to IR.

I also believe Lee is a good compromise between the low cost Hitech and the high cost Singh Ray lines. But Hitech filters have always worked just fine for me.

Also FYI, Hitech filters are made in the same 100mm size (4"X6") as Lee or Sing-Ray, but most people are familiar with the 85mm versions used with Cokin's P-series holder.

I'm with Bret. I have a Singh Ray GND but hardly ever use it. I think that Nick uses Lee filters and likes them.

Bill is correct, I do use the Lee filter system. Lee filters plus the holders are more expensive than Hitechs, but not as much as Singh Ray!. I really like the Lee system and the large filters, and I believe they are truly neutral. I have also used hitechs and Cokins in the past, and there is no comparison.
I do also use digital blending on occasion, but also carry my GND's and still use them 90% of the time.

One thing that was mentioned earlier is vignetting. With my P series holder, I sometimes get some nasty vignetting in wide angle shots so this is where the blending method can be the way to go. If anybody out there can give me a link to how to blend in PS, I'd really appreciate it.

I now use the 4x6 size Singh-Ray filters to eliminate the vignetting problem with the P series. I've tried blending 2 or more exposures but have never been able to get them perfectly aligned even holding down the shift key. The only way I can get multiple images perfectly aligned is when I use 1 frame and process 2 or 3 times at different exposures.
Also when using more than 1 frame, I feel it is necessary to label the image a digital composite, which in some people's minds can subtract from the "originality" of the image.

Koveh, I'm far from a expert in photoshop. If I spend more than 15 mins on a image I just get frustrated and move on. Once you get the hang of it, it will only take about 3 - 5 mins to blend two exposures, which is probably less time then it will take you to get filters attached and setup.

I take two exposures, one for the foreground and one for the sky. I process the foreground image and then process the sky image. Copy one image into the other image. As John stated you can use the Auto align to align the two images. Create a layer mask and then use the gradient tool to create your digital GND filter.

Here's a simple sample
http://www.fredmiranda.com/article_2/

I'm sure there are other ways to do it. Maybe Nat will chime in, as he would know a lot more than I would, but this process works for me. I am able to get much better results than I was with filters and was much faster than having to mess around with setting up filters. Again, only my opinion, as I stated several others here use the filters with great results.

I've tried blending 2 or more exposures but have never been able to get them perfectly aligned even holding down the shift key.

See my post above on fixing that problem.

Mel: I didn't base my statement on internet rumors. My first GND filters were HiTech and they all had a noticeable magenta cast. Perhaps things have changed in the last few years as I've been using entirely Singh-Ray filters for the last 7 years.

Sorry for disagreeing gents, but why add to post-process time (which is already considerable for a nature photographer) rather than a few extra seconds using a ND filter in the field. They are all tools of the trade and I'm a firm believer in using every type of tool in achieving my photo in the best way possible. Besides, quite a few agencies and media require you to submit your original raw file. Gonna be pretty hard to submit if you have to throw in HDR work instead of the original data... just a thought.

Therefore, I wholeheartedly recommend ND filters as often as you are able. The results you achieve in the field will be worth it IMO. I use Singh-Ray Grad reverse ND's and Lee filters myself, and love them!

...why add to post-process time (which is already considerable for a nature photographer) rather than a few extra seconds using a ND filter in the field?

If you use a GND filter on scenes with an irregular transition between the sky and the foreground, then you need to spend time fixing those areas that the filter covered (and therefore darkened) inadvertently, no?

Besides, quite a few agencies and media require you to submit your original raw file.

Interesting.
Is this in addition to the finished file? If not, what do they do with a low contrast, unsharpened file that has already been automatically 'developed' to some extent with their RAW converter?
What would they say if you provided two differently exposed RAW files and explained your methodology, which is basically the same as using a filter and which has become a growingly accepted practice with the best nature photographers?

John, believe it or not, I almost never post-process after using my ND filters in the field, but to be fair, most of my ND subjects are lined up seascapes with a fairly flat surface to work with. Regardless, most submissions I use for work require unaltered work, especially for the major agencies, so its always better to do as much as possible in the field. Its a backwards way to submit, but since when does it ever make sense with publications LOL.

As for unsharped files, that may be the single biggest gripe I have when submitting, It seems that some stock/magazine agencies have the desire to oversharpen every file they receive so I find myself having to use a lighter touch before submission. I will say this though, these agencies do need to adopt the future standard and accept that HDR content is sometimes required to achieve the artist's true rendering of what they composed in the field. Seems like they are about 10 years behind the times...

Thanks for the quick and informative reply, Bryan!