Posted by Paul King on September 21, 2009 at 12:18 PM
The following came as a bit of a surprise today when trying to do things the right way round for a change.
Wonder what your views are and if you didn't know?
Thank you for your enquiry. I am afraid that we would not grant access
for you to create imagery for open, uncontrolled commercial sale in this
way on a National Trust owned and managed estate unfortunately, as we
would require to know specific end use before we would be happy for
imagery of the land to be exploited. We have a duty to protect National
Trust assets and brand identity and even though you might only want to
photograph the deer, you may photograph other aspects of that property
whereby it is recognisable. We require controls to be in place to
protect NT interests for numerous reasons.
Sorry, but I do hope that you can understand our position.
Hmmm! that puts a lot of places in the "problematicals"
Posted by David Sewell on September 21, 2009 at 12:57 PM
Paul,
I had read that the National Trust were going down this line. Probably many more land-owning organisations will go down the same route over the next few years, especially in cash-strapped times when they are trying to extract as much money as possible from every source available. They are not quite saying it yet, but I suspect the real reasoning is to get a proportion if the vast fees that photographers earn, LOL.
It could be worse - I am told that in France architects have the copyright on buildings, so that, theoretically at least, you cannot take a picture of a landmark without permission. Certainly I know of agencies that will not accept pictures of, say, the Eiffel Tower, without written evidence that the photographer had permission from the copyright owner to take the picture.
I try to avoid asking permission to take photos as much as I can. Very rarely is a site recognisable from one of my photos, and I more or less stopped selling pictures a while ago as I no longer thought it worth the hassle.
Asking permission to be on private land is, of course, another matter.
"We have a duty to protect NationalTrust assets and brand identity and even though you might only want to photograph the deer you may photograph other aspects of that property whereby it is recognisable."
So dont include anything else and you'll be fine.
They are apparently not acting within the bounds of their legal entitlement, and relying on a gross misinterpretation of an old bye-law. There is a significant back story to all of this which you may read about here of you are interested (and you should be if you are a NT patron or subscriber):
It's been known for a while that the NT have adopted this policy. I would simply suggest that everybody deals with them on a full commercial basis.
An interesting subject is the Farnes?
Posted by eric weight on September 21, 2009 at 2:31 PM
"Terms of Entry
Photography is permitted on site providing it is for personal use only. All commercial/stock library photography must be agreed in advance with the centre and is subject to a fee."
Pasted straight off the WWT website. It's not just the National Trust.
I hope none of you have put any shots you took at the conference on your stock sites or are selling them off your websites. Tut tut.
Not quite sure how they are going to prove that it is one of their WWT coots or in your case one of their NT deer.
I got a NT membership last year, as I live very close to mount grace priory, and wanted to photograph the stoats there, due to their restrictions I won't be renewing this year and have found a new place to do my stoat photography.
Discussion
5 repliesWonder what your views are and if you didn't know?
Thank you for your enquiry. I am afraid that we would not grant access
for you to create imagery for open, uncontrolled commercial sale in this
way on a National Trust owned and managed estate unfortunately, as we
would require to know specific end use before we would be happy for
imagery of the land to be exploited. We have a duty to protect National
Trust assets and brand identity and even though you might only want to
photograph the deer, you may photograph other aspects of that property
whereby it is recognisable. We require controls to be in place to
protect NT interests for numerous reasons.
Sorry, but I do hope that you can understand our position.
Hmmm! that puts a lot of places in the "problematicals"
I had read that the National Trust were going down this line. Probably many more land-owning organisations will go down the same route over the next few years, especially in cash-strapped times when they are trying to extract as much money as possible from every source available. They are not quite saying it yet, but I suspect the real reasoning is to get a proportion if the vast fees that photographers earn, LOL.
It could be worse - I am told that in France architects have the copyright on buildings, so that, theoretically at least, you cannot take a picture of a landmark without permission. Certainly I know of agencies that will not accept pictures of, say, the Eiffel Tower, without written evidence that the photographer had permission from the copyright owner to take the picture.
I try to avoid asking permission to take photos as much as I can. Very rarely is a site recognisable from one of my photos, and I more or less stopped selling pictures a while ago as I no longer thought it worth the hassle.
Asking permission to be on private land is, of course, another matter.
Regards,
David
So dont include anything else and you'll be fine.
They are apparently not acting within the bounds of their legal entitlement, and relying on a gross misinterpretation of an old bye-law. There is a significant back story to all of this which you may read about here of you are interested (and you should be if you are a NT patron or subscriber):
http://copyrightaction.com/forum/national-trust-byelaws-in-a-twist
which also involves this:
http://copyrightaction.com/forum/national-trust-picture-yourself-competition
and this:
http://copyrightaction.com/forum/national-trust-pictures-not-the-nt-not-alamy
An interesting subject is the Farnes?
Photography is permitted on site providing it is for personal use only. All commercial/stock library photography must be agreed in advance with the centre and is subject to a fee."
Pasted straight off the WWT website. It's not just the National Trust.
I hope none of you have put any shots you took at the conference on your stock sites or are selling them off your websites. Tut tut.
Not quite sure how they are going to prove that it is one of their WWT coots or in your case one of their NT deer.
Dani