Posted by Neale Dyster on September 22, 2009 at 6:38 AM
I'm finally getting around to getting photos printed at an online lab and my first attempt has not been great. The prints came back darker than I expected. No doubt there is something amiss in my set up.
I figured I should start at the beginning and look at color spaces of my various hardware items.
I've now set my D300 to AdobeRGB and CS4 to the same. Lightroom advises using ProPhotoRGB. My question is should I change LR to Adobe RGB or leave it set to ProPhotoRGB, what if any are the consequences?
Any help appreciated, I'm sure I'll have further questions!!
Posted by John Mumaw on September 22, 2009 at 9:07 AM
This doesn't sound like a color space issue as much as a monitor brightness issue.
Are you using an LCD monitor? They're usually set way too bright as a factory default because most folks like a bright screen. However, that excessive brightness is not optimum for a good monitor to print match.
John's idea is a good starting point, and is usually the number one issue with print-monitor matching. Set the ambient lighting in your work area to what it is when you work on images. Next, take a piece of matte finish, white paper and hold it near your monitor. Set the brightness of your monitor to match the paper, or close to it.
Better yet, obtain a device to calibrate and profile your monitor. This will get you much closer to a match. Bear in mind, though, that the match won't be perfect, because color and tone from paper is reflective, while it is transmisive on your monitor.
If you can get it, snag a copy of the color profile used by the printer and soft proof with that profile.
It is a good idea to have all the software you use, where color management is critical, that you use the same color space.
-P
Posted by Neale Dyster on September 22, 2009 at 9:50 AM
Yes John, I think you are right. I have a couple of different issues here. I do have an LCD, my old CRT has retired unfortunately. I have an NEC 2490WUXi and run Spyder 2 express calibration software. I am finding more and more information on the web about color space, profiling, soft proofing etc. Hopefully I'll get my head around it all eventually!
Posted by John Mumaw on September 22, 2009 at 1:06 PM
I have the same monitor Neale, and it's a good one!
The calibration hardware that came with it allowed me to lower the luminance of the screen.
Not sure if the Spyder offers that feature. If not, then simply dial down the brightness yourself to closely match the prints you've received. That will do the trick.
As far as color space is concerned, if you're shooting in RAW mode, then dialing in a color space in camera will have no bearing on the output. That's determined on what you choose in LR.
Posted by Phillip Noll on September 22, 2009 at 1:22 PM
If you shoot in raw it doesn't matter what color space you set in the camera as this only pertains to the jpgs it captures. I would recommend using ProPhoto for your raw images and your working space in Lightroom and Photoshop. Its a wider gamut and as printers improve you will be able to take advantage of colors that we can't print today. If you convert to Adobe RGB or sRGB you will be throwing away information and you will never get it back. When it comes time to print an image follow your print shop's set up recommendations and proof your image in Photoshop (and adjust the colors) using the profile they send you.
Having said that, I agree with the others--its most likely that your monitor/display is too bright. Good luck!
Posted by Neale Dyster on September 23, 2009 at 9:19 AM
Thankyou for your helpful comments and advice guys.
PS: Phillip, the one my uncle used to tell was: Q: Whats the difference between a duck?............
A : One of it's legs is both the same.
Posted by Phillip Noll on September 23, 2009 at 9:20 AM
Q: Whats the difference between a duck?............
A : One of it's legs is both the same.
I basically make a print, then go into my monitor custom adjustment options (right clicking on desktop and wading into the menus) and then adjust my monitor (mainly its luminance but also a decrease of contrast) then make another print, and repeat steps until your monitor looks like your print. After practice you will get a feel for it.
Posted by Neale Dyster on September 24, 2009 at 4:35 AM
Sounds like a good idea Mark, thanks.
I'm sure this will reveal the true depth of my ignorance, but just so I'm clear ( well, getting clearer . )
My Spyder program always asks for brightness and contrast to be set at default levels.
So now I'm thinking it's OK to change brightness controls and contrast on the monitor after calibration as this doesn't have an effect on colors and the calibration?
Posted by John Mumaw on September 24, 2009 at 9:07 AM
So now I'm thinking it's OK to change brightness controls and contrast on the monitor after calibration as this doesn't have an effect on colors and the calibration?
That's correct. I think the default levels are leaving your monitor too bright. Not sure about contrast adjustment, though.
Discussion
10 repliesI figured I should start at the beginning and look at color spaces of my various hardware items.
I've now set my D300 to AdobeRGB and CS4 to the same. Lightroom advises using ProPhotoRGB. My question is should I change LR to Adobe RGB or leave it set to ProPhotoRGB, what if any are the consequences?
Any help appreciated, I'm sure I'll have further questions!!
Are you using an LCD monitor? They're usually set way too bright as a factory default because most folks like a bright screen. However, that excessive brightness is not optimum for a good monitor to print match.
Better yet, obtain a device to calibrate and profile your monitor. This will get you much closer to a match. Bear in mind, though, that the match won't be perfect, because color and tone from paper is reflective, while it is transmisive on your monitor.
If you can get it, snag a copy of the color profile used by the printer and soft proof with that profile.
It is a good idea to have all the software you use, where color management is critical, that you use the same color space.
-P
The calibration hardware that came with it allowed me to lower the luminance of the screen.
Not sure if the Spyder offers that feature. If not, then simply dial down the brightness yourself to closely match the prints you've received. That will do the trick.
As far as color space is concerned, if you're shooting in RAW mode, then dialing in a color space in camera will have no bearing on the output. That's determined on what you choose in LR.
Having said that, I agree with the others--its most likely that your monitor/display is too bright. Good luck!
PS: Phillip, the one my uncle used to tell was: Q: Whats the difference between a duck?............
A : One of it's legs is both the same.
I'm sure this will reveal the true depth of my ignorance,
My Spyder program always asks for brightness and contrast to be set at default levels.
So now I'm thinking it's OK to change brightness controls and contrast on the monitor after calibration as this doesn't have an effect on colors and the calibration?
That's correct. I think the default levels are leaving your monitor too bright. Not sure about contrast adjustment, though.