Prints: Why am I usually underwhelmed?

Hi all.

This is something that I have been thinking about for some time now. It seems that whenever I print some of my photos, that I am usually underwhelmed by the print.

To be honest, I think my skills preparing a file to print could use some work. Also to be fair and honest, I usually print at cheaper places whose specialty is not at printing photos. It does seem that once they are matted and framed that I am happier, so maybe part of it is that I see the finished product in my mind, instead of the print. I still feel that the other areas need some work though.

So where will I see the most improvement? Should I work first at improving my skills? Should I choose better photo printers and then go from there?

Thanks in advance.

Nathan

Hi Nathan,

I think the most important thing is to figure out what's disappointing about your prints. Color? Contrast? Sharpness? Something else?

Try sending one of your images to your current printer and a high quality print specialist then compare the prints. I do my own printing so other folks will have to make recommendations for print vendors.

Is your work flow color managed? Do you soft proof using profiles from the company doing your printing?

A lot of questions, not very many answers. Sorry about that. You really need to examine your prints critically and decide what would improve them.

Cheers,
Mark

Some of what you are seeing is just the limitations of current printers. I don't think there is a printer out there that even comes close to being able to reproduce the colors in the Adobe RGB gamut or even the gamut of most current displays. So you will see a larger range of colors and a larger dynamic range on your display than is possible in print. Different combinations of ink, paper, and profiles can cause huge differences in print appearance also. Glossy vs. matte papers will look very different (glossy having much deeper blacks and generally larger dynamic range). If you don't soft proof before printing your colors could be off too. The rendering intent used to handle out of gamut colors will also affect the final look of your prints.

If you want knock-your-socks-off prints, then you will have to bite the bullet and send your files to a professional print maker (instead of the "cheaper places") and follow their instructions to the letter. Get their printer profiles and softproof your images. I would suggest you find one or more print makers, submit the same image, have them print it on a range of papers or using different printers and decide which you like best. You can certainly get beautiful prints if you are careful when preparing your images and you use a quality print maker.

Good luck!

Actually, I think the most recent generation of Epsons, the 7900 and 9900's come pretty close to covering most of the Adobe RGB and even exceed it in places. But I doubt Nathan is interested in dropping $4,000 or $6,000 on one of these.

The biggest question in my mind, after the above questions, is what your goal for the prints are? Personal, portfolio, sales, etc. Some options for prints sales may not be viable financially for the occasional personal print.

I personally would prefer to take control of the printing process and do it myself, so poor prints are my fault rather than someone else's fault. When I have had to send out, I understand the process and issues well enough that I haven't had any problems.

After answering the questions asked above, how about this? Depending on what you are looking for and what you have looked at already, I'll be happy to make you a print from a file my Epson 4000 - a printer that is now a couple of generations old. It will give you some idea what you can do at home and I might see something in the file which will help in printing and for one print, no charge.

PM me - info, danborzynskiimages and it is a com suffix.

Hi Nathan,

I don't have the space to do my own printing. Plus, I am one of those perfectionists that would have to buy a huge printer to create the quality I want. At least I think I would need to.

Anyway, not happy with the prints I received from some local shops, nor with the cheaper places, I sent identical images to two separate labs that I'd read quite abit about. And, I was astonished at what they produced. I've had excellent experiences with both and the customer service has been great. I made a mistake on an order and it was fixed very quickly. I use www.mpix.com and www.aspencreekphoto.com for my printing.

Nathan, a lot of good advice already. I can tell you what I did to get prints of high quality that do justice to my images. I found a relatively local shop (20 miles away from my home) that prints fine art images of all kinds. By going to a local shop you can see your image on their computer screen that is set up and color matched for their printer set up. Seeing it before it is printed, you can work with the shop to get it right before any ink is put to paper. I realize that many people do not have a local place that can do this type of printing, but if you do, it is worth getting to know them and starting up a working relationship. I love the prints I get from D and D Fine Art in Vero Beach, FL.

Try sending one of your images to your current printer and a high quality print specialist then compare the prints.

This is an excellent suggestion.
Do bear in mind that transmissive images (monitor) will always look a bit more vibrant than reflective (print) images.

Nathan, also consider that not all images that work on the monitor work as a print. Just as not all color photos will work as a black and white image. Assuming you are printing some of your floral "cram" images I would suggest you try having them printed on a fine art paper, canvas, watercolor paper, or luster, instead of the usual glossy photo paper. The style of your work would show especially well on any one of those papers, but the most reasonably priced is the watercolor paper made for printers. I'm sure you can find a professional printing company to work with, even if you supply the paper, but still think you will not be happy until you are printing your own work.

Hi, Nathan.
I used two inexpensive fast turn around online print companies with inconsistant results. The colors were off, and always seem to vary a bit. I finally decided to try West Coast Imaging. They are true professional print makers, and offer a lot of different services. They will actually process your files to your specifications, and go through the proofing process with you until it is jujst right. This comes at a price though, about $190.00 a file. But you get the processed file archived and go back for reprints any time. They also have thier normal print lab where you send them the fully processed files and they print them up for you. I have used this method a few times with the watercolor smooth papers. I must say I was totally impressed with the way they turned out. The colors are beautiful and true to my files. I would definately recommend them.

Chris

$190 a file!!?? What does MPIX charge?

I've used MPix for a couple of years & the work is fantastic. I'm paying about $17 for a 16 x 24 color print - delivered to my door in about two days. I've not tried the others, as I'm very pleased with what I get at MPix. They have an option to do "color correction" for you, or you can turn that option off (which I do), so they print it as you want them to. It might be worth letting them correct one print for you to see what you get.

Often printing too big for the file size results in a "blah" reaction. You flowers shots should pop as much in print as on the monitor. You should also see more fine detail, if sharp. I'm assuming your properly profiled.

I was underwhelmed, too, until I figured out that printing is more than just saving a file, and sending it to print (whether using a service or my own printer). I would get colos that were muted, and rather dull. Although I can't teach the specifics, make sure you have selected the correct color profile before sending off the jpg to the printer. If printing on your own printer, select the the correct paper profile, and make sure you're setting the printer profile dialog box options properly.

Lots of good suggestions so far.

If you've got some change laying around check out Michael Reichmann's and Jeff Schewe's tutorial on Luminous Landscape called "From Camera to Print". It covers the basics of color calibration, image manipulation and soft proofing really well. It helped me a lot in my printing - and frankly, if you aren't enjoying your prints then you're missing half the fun of photography.

I'd also ask around locally and see if another photographer nearby is printing their own work and would mind showing you the workflow. You might need to hire them for a few hours of training time but it might be well worth it.

Even if you decide not to drop the money on your own printer it will show you how the process works and how to set your images up for printing at online spots.

Good luck

Actually, I think the most recent generation of Epsons, the 7900 and 9900's come pretty close to covering most of the Adobe RGB and even exceed it in places.

Quite right! I stand corrected. (Its been a while since I shopped for a printer!)

@Nathan: Here is a good article that might help you:

http://pixsylated.com/2008/05/why-your-photos-look-lousy/

Frank wrote: "$190 a file!!?? What does MPIX charge? "

Frank, the price Chris mentioned is for an 'exhibition' print from WCI. This price includes a drum scan of your film (if using film) and includes all the Photo Shop work done by one of their master print makers.

I can atest to the quality of thses prints. I've had 16x20's made by them. I had them send me a proof print, which I then 'marked up'. I sent the proof back to them and arranged a time to speak with the print maker on the phone. Afterwards, they sent me another proof: It was right on the money! When I received the print, it was astonishingingly beautiful. As Chris said, they keep your scan and your print file archived so that one can order reprints, which are very reasonably priced, at any time. I use WCI when I need prints larger than 12x16.

All of the suggestions made to Nathan are excellent, and I heartily agree with them. One thing I will add, is this: Some images will not lend themselves well to very large prints, and in fact, may look their best at smaller sizes. So, Nathan may want to try making prints at different sizes to see what works best for the subject at hand. Making a good match between subject and print size is a creative decision, apart from technical considerations.

Nathan, if you can afford it, purchase the best quality printer you can, and work toward making your own prints. It won't be easy. It will take time to climb up the learning curve, but you will be happier in the long run, I think.

-P

Check out John Paul Caponigro's site. There is a lot of free lessons there, given by arguably the best master printer on the planet. If you have the coin, take one of his digital printing workshops.

http://www.johnpaulcaponigro.com/

I sincerely appreciate everyone's time and responses. For the record I should say that for now, I mainly just shoot for me, and I usually just enjoy my photos on the computer. I am even bad about getting prints done for our home at this point... This is something that I want to change though, and I want to get a bit more into printing sometime in the near future. That is why I posted this question.

I do have a monitor calibration tool, but honestly have yet to use it. Just one more thing that I have to get done.

I do also realize that 'you get what you pay for' - so I understood that it easily could be the cheap prints that I have gotten thus far.

I really appreciate all of the suggestions and will definitely try some of them. You all are great!

Nathan

Nathan...all great advice and suggestions. I think you'll find that once you get your own printer, have control over colors, paper etc, you'll find a big difference in your images. Some of them will always be "underwhelmed" but some others will be "YES..THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!" That's what I felt when I got my own printer and started controlling my images. As you say, just another thing to do Good Luck

check out Michael Reichmann's and Jeff Schewe's tutorial on Luminous Landscape called "From Camera to Print".

I spent the $34.95 for the Luminous Landscape video set last year (download it here), it is completely worth it. In fact, I used QuickTime pro to convert them to iPhone and I've been going through them again just this past week. makes standing in line at the store a joy now.

The other resource to make your home printing on inkjet as good as can be is this book by Tim Grey. Both the videos and that book have been a tremendous resource. I sometimes just print to my $99 Epson R380 and the prints are striking. BTW, If I use Kodak Premium Inkjet paper the prints look bad, not sure why, but I get excellent results on Epson Premium Lustre and Ilford Pearl (both ar 8½x11). My Canon Pixma 9000 prints well on anything, I bet that thing could print on a large pepperoni from Mariella's Pizzeria on East 57th in NYC.

Lots of great suggestions here already, I'll just throw one out there that I don't think was mentioned yet: the light you use to illuminate the print will make as much of a difference as any processing you do. You can do everything perfect and create a perfect print, but it won't look "perfect" until it's illuminated properly (bright light at the right temperature). Unfortunately paper doesn't produce light.... yet

the light you use to illuminate the print will make as much of a difference as any processing you do

Just wanted to echo this point, made by Floris, because it's often overlooked and can't possibly be overstated. I've been doing all my own printing for five or six years now and I still never cease to be amazed at how radically different prints look in different light.

I took a class that required us to hand in prints(min size of 11x14) instead of electronic files so I had to bite the bullet so to speak and learn how to print. My printer only did 8x10s so I went with online companies. I've used three different online print labs with fantastic results. www.whcc.com, www.bayphoto.com(both pro labs), and also Adorama's printing. My preference is for WHCC but they are a bit more pricey than the other two. I watch Adorama for sales. Sometimes they'll have 11x14s for less then $2, and once or twice I've seen 16x20 for $5( I have three of these on my living room walls in metallic - I love them!).

I'm a big fan of their metallics, it will really pop certain colors. I always use glossy as I just like the detail and feel that matte tends to mute the colors some.

Up until until that class I'd had bad experiences with prints. Too orange, too green, muted, dark, etc. I was always dissappointed. These are the steps I used to get the prints I wanted:

First you have to calibrate! Your uncalibrated monitor shows everything brighter and bluer then it really is. When you print you'll get darker, more muted files that will be warmer then you expect(since you viewed it on a bright blueish monitor).

Next learn how to soft proof. Even once you calibrate you'll still need to see what the print will look like on a particular paper from a particular printer. This will give you a change to increase the contrast, brighten, etc. You can usually download the printer and paper profile from whoever you are printing for. You'll be dissappointed often if you skip this step.

Lastly, follow all the directions. If they say upload in sRGB, then make sure you convert and that the file still looks like you want it too.

It's definitely worth the trouble. You should never be dissappointed with your prints. I've come to prefer prints to what I see on the monitor. There's something very special about holding that print in your hand and it being even better then you had originally imagined. I tend to get all giddy when my prints come in! :)

It is probably for the same reason you are disappointed by the hamburger flavor you experience when you order hot dogs: they are completely different things. People can go on and on about how to get the best print, but it is still a print. You can't expect to get the same taste from a print as you do from a hot dog.

Pete D.