Posted by Dan Borzynski on October 3, 2009 at 10:33 PM
I'm assuming that this is not a good sign for the future life of my Canon 20D.
First, the camera has 70,000+ exposures. That might be part of the problem.
I pulled the camera out this afternoon for the first time in a couple of weeks (it gets used regularly) and tried to take a shot. The shutter sounded really wrong. I'm not sure how to describe it but once you get used to the sound it normally makes you know when the sound is not right.
Every shot produces an error 99 message. Different lens or even no lens. (I own only Canon lenses.) Also, I press the shot button, the mirror flips up, aperature stops done, time as appropriate goes by, mirror comes down and it takes 2-4 seconds for the aperature to go back to wide open. Kind of like DOF preview after the shot is taken except the error 99 gets triggered and nothing is recorded.
Doing the sensor clean to move the mirror up and open the shutter only accomplishes the moving the mirror out of the way. The shutter stays closed.
I've removed both batteries, replaced the CR2016 battery and used a different BP-511 battery. Same behavior.
There is definite wear and scuffing on the shutter. I'm not sure if that is normal or not since I've never been able to clearly see the shutter previously.
The camera has not been dropped or subject to anything other than my normal gear abuse.
So, two questions:
Any suggestions as to what to do here?
Assuming nothing works from the above question, would this camera be worth sending to Canon? The 20D was a nice camera in its time but is beginning to approach digital dinosaur status. I suppose it would make a good excuse for buying the 7D but I really don't need to be spending the money and suspect a shutter repair bill would be around the used price for the camera.
I do have a 5D as my primary so it is not real critical to replace the 20D.
Thanks.
Posted by Luke Ormand on October 4, 2009 at 12:59 AM
Error 99 is a generic code. I had the Error 99 code coming up with my 20D at work. Sent it in to Cannon and the problem was with the connectors on one of the lenses. If changing lenses doesn't work - it may be the connectors on the body. Shouldn't be too expensive - you can try cleaning the contacts first before sending it in.
Dan,
I have no clue as to what may be the cause but thought I'd share some thoughts with you. First I don't think 70,000 shutter cycles is the end of the projected life. I know the 20D is quite old by now but most of the newer bodies are good for 150,000 or more so maybe the 20D is OK for 100,000?
But why guess? Send it to Canon and let them tell you what's wrong. That won't cost much if anything. Then deal with real facts. If the repair is not too much, get it done and either a) sell it or b) squeeze the rest of the life out of it.
Fixed or not though, the 20D is now several generations old (30D, 40D, 50D, 7D). I had a 20D then 30D then 40D and now am waiting for a 7D (yes, I've been very fortunate) and I can tell you that the improvements in each over the 20D made life much more fun. Mainly higher ISO performance. I could go much higher on the 40D than I ever could with 20D before getting objectionable noise. A true spot meter was also very important to me even though that may seem minor. If you shoot a lot in manual, the spot is a big help as I'm sure you know.
One last thing, if you did not hear, the 5D did have some issues with mirrors coming loose, especially if you live in hot climates. Canon has a modification it will do for free if you send the camera in. If that's your primary, might be good to have it done.
Good luck with whatever you do. I'm very happy with all my Canon gear and have not experienced many problems. The ones I have had have been my fault and service has always been good, fast, and reasonable in cost.
John
Posted by Dan Borzynski on October 4, 2009 at 4:01 PM
John - I was aware of the 5D issues, but thanks. I was waiting until after the season is over with before sending it in.
Dan do you use a grip.
If so remove it as that caused me the same problems you are having.
The oyher problem is the connectors on the body for the lenses.Sometimes after long intervals of not using there is carbon buildup on the connectors.Clean them with a soft damp cloth and some alchohol on it.Avery very little amount.
the clicks is nothing its not an amount fo rit to give problems AVI
Posted by Austin Booth on October 5, 2009 at 1:00 PM
You very well may be at the end of the shutter life of that camera. I remember when I bought the 30D new one of their selling points was a new improved durability shutter rated at 100,000 actuations. I looked it up and could not find any definite answers but some posts on this thread at dpreview.com are claiming 70,000 which is what you are at:
Several people on the same thread mention its about $200-250 to fix although that was in 2006 so I don't know if that is still accurate or if it even was in the first place. I think the best thing to do would be to send it in to canon because it doesn't cost much for them to take a look at it and tell you whats wrong and how much it will cost to fix. If its $200-250 its probably worth it to get it fixed because even if you decide its time to upgrade you can still probably sell the 20D body only for $400-450.
Posted by Dan Borzynski on October 5, 2009 at 6:18 PM
I don't think it is a completely lens/body connection issue for two reasons: First, the problem occurs with no lens attached. The second, which I am more concerned about, is in sensor clean mode where the shutter does not open to allow access to the sensor for cleaning. The mirror flips up but the shutter stays put, which is how I saw the marks on the shutter.
Thanks for your input. I'm still deciding on sending it in. For the $2-250 potential cost to repair, I think I would wind up being near break even on selling (either through a store like KEH or privately - either way I'd still disclose the shutter replacement).
Discussion
6 repliesFirst, the camera has 70,000+ exposures. That might be part of the problem.
I pulled the camera out this afternoon for the first time in a couple of weeks (it gets used regularly) and tried to take a shot. The shutter sounded really wrong. I'm not sure how to describe it but once you get used to the sound it normally makes you know when the sound is not right.
Every shot produces an error 99 message. Different lens or even no lens. (I own only Canon lenses.) Also, I press the shot button, the mirror flips up, aperature stops done, time as appropriate goes by, mirror comes down and it takes 2-4 seconds for the aperature to go back to wide open. Kind of like DOF preview after the shot is taken except the error 99 gets triggered and nothing is recorded.
Doing the sensor clean to move the mirror up and open the shutter only accomplishes the moving the mirror out of the way. The shutter stays closed.
I've removed both batteries, replaced the CR2016 battery and used a different BP-511 battery. Same behavior.
There is definite wear and scuffing on the shutter. I'm not sure if that is normal or not since I've never been able to clearly see the shutter previously.
The camera has not been dropped or subject to anything other than my normal gear abuse.
So, two questions:
Any suggestions as to what to do here?
Assuming nothing works from the above question, would this camera be worth sending to Canon? The 20D was a nice camera in its time but is beginning to approach digital dinosaur status. I suppose it would make a good excuse for buying the 7D but I really don't need to be spending the money and suspect a shutter repair bill would be around the used price for the camera.
I do have a 5D as my primary so it is not real critical to replace the 20D.
Thanks.
I have no clue as to what may be the cause but thought I'd share some thoughts with you. First I don't think 70,000 shutter cycles is the end of the projected life. I know the 20D is quite old by now but most of the newer bodies are good for 150,000 or more so maybe the 20D is OK for 100,000?
But why guess? Send it to Canon and let them tell you what's wrong. That won't cost much if anything. Then deal with real facts. If the repair is not too much, get it done and either a) sell it or b) squeeze the rest of the life out of it.
Fixed or not though, the 20D is now several generations old (30D, 40D, 50D, 7D). I had a 20D then 30D then 40D and now am waiting for a 7D (yes, I've been very fortunate) and I can tell you that the improvements in each over the 20D made life much more fun. Mainly higher ISO performance. I could go much higher on the 40D than I ever could with 20D before getting objectionable noise. A true spot meter was also very important to me even though that may seem minor. If you shoot a lot in manual, the spot is a big help as I'm sure you know.
One last thing, if you did not hear, the 5D did have some issues with mirrors coming loose, especially if you live in hot climates. Canon has a modification it will do for free if you send the camera in. If that's your primary, might be good to have it done.
Good luck with whatever you do. I'm very happy with all my Canon gear and have not experienced many problems. The ones I have had have been my fault and service has always been good, fast, and reasonable in cost.
John
If so remove it as that caused me the same problems you are having.
The oyher problem is the connectors on the body for the lenses.Sometimes after long intervals of not using there is carbon buildup on the connectors.Clean them with a soft damp cloth and some alchohol on it.Avery very little amount.
the clicks is nothing its not an amount fo rit to give problems
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=17287832
Several people on the same thread mention its about $200-250 to fix although that was in 2006 so I don't know if that is still accurate or if it even was in the first place. I think the best thing to do would be to send it in to canon because it doesn't cost much for them to take a look at it and tell you whats wrong and how much it will cost to fix. If its $200-250 its probably worth it to get it fixed because even if you decide its time to upgrade you can still probably sell the 20D body only for $400-450.
Thanks for your input. I'm still deciding on sending it in. For the $2-250 potential cost to repair, I think I would wind up being near break even on selling (either through a store like KEH or privately - either way I'd still disclose the shutter replacement).