Posted by Hendrik BOSMAN on October 10, 2009 at 12:04 PM
Being a field person as well as a scientist with so many interests that I`ll have to live to be at least about 500 years old just to do HALF the stuff that I`m interested in I`m about to ask a question. A "Statistical" one at that
Now I know that statistics in general are mostly used for the same reason a drunk person uses a lamp post, but, I`d like to know what the international distribution of the NPN membership is.
If it is not in a graphic format I`m quite willing and able (and have the time now) to input these details into a GIS software program and distribute back to the Forum. BTW I on purpose did not ask this by email from the Secretary so that it will not look suspicious in any way AND because I don`t yet know how the hierarchy works
If this is agreeable to most members I`ll gladly post the requirements as a reply to this forum.
Hoping to hear from you soon
Posted by Stan Rose on October 10, 2009 at 12:44 PM
I like that idea--a global map showing the membership. That way, we can go recruit people to fill the gaps and slowly but surely take over the world! Bruhahah
Posted by Carol Nichols on October 10, 2009 at 1:50 PM
One of the things I enjoy the most from NPN is the ability to "converse" with people from all over the world and to see what their home countries look like. I would be very curious to know which countries are represented in NPN.
Posted by Jim Bullard on October 10, 2009 at 1:55 PM
I'm not opposed to lamp posts and that sounds like an interesting and fun idea.
Posted by Bryan Maltais on October 10, 2009 at 3:30 PM
This would be an interesting stat to know. If you're willing to do the tabulating Hendrik, I like the idea.
Most probably it is too early to make any deductions from this thread. I see that it has been viewed 63 times and only 4 people took the time to voice their opinion.
Since the 4 members all replied positively and the rest did not give any feedback I can only think that they don`t feel strongly enough either for or against the idea. This also means that if any comparable method of data collection is employed that only about 8% of the members will respond. Now I`m quite sure that that will not be representative and thus a futile excercise.
Now. There are a few ways to ago about getting the basic data.
1. Depending on the format membership data is stored, eg. true database (Access) or just Excel Spreadsheet, I can ask the secretary to extract non-personal data. Such as Country, State, Town, Enrolment date.
From a basic point of view this will be enough data to create a world distribution map.
2. But, I`d like to have something much more complete and will ask "management" (in leiu of a better term) to email everybody and ask them to take part in a forum poll where one only has to use mouse clicks to answer questions. Since I don`t know whether I may be allowed to create a poll (thus doing all the work) if the software allows it. If this is not possible the only bad thing may be that I`ll have to supply the Web Administrator with the questions and then he/she will have to do the work. Now this is not my intention to give other people work but it may be that the current software does not allow a member to create a poll.
3. Last but also the option with the most effort from a member`s point of view is to post the questions on the forum as a separate topic and again ask the secretary to please make a call for everybody to participate. I`ll then have a lot of work to do (not that I mind) to work through all te rreplies to compile a database. What I have against this method is not so much the work but that it will then not be anonymous, which I think is important.
I`m planning to provide the maps a graphics (jpg & png) and will also be able to provide these as DXF, Google Earth and ArcGIS shape files.
Anyway to give forum members a glance at what I`d like to achieve, here are the questions. Just remember that it might be possible to collect this data as a series of polls. Specially if the basic data as in (1) is supplied by the secretary.
NB NO PERSONAL DETAILS (If members feel that it will be worthwhile I`ll ask the list from the Secretary)
Town:
State: (Please use full name since not everybody knows state abbreviations)
Country: (USA, UK please indicate Wales etc, etc )
Primary Interest: General Nature, Close-up, Birds, Landscape, Amphibians, etc
Primary Camera:
Model:
Favourite lens:
Total number of lenses:
Period active in photography:
NPN membership (Years):
Other hobby or pastime: eg Motorbiking
Full time occupation:
Industry:
Are you willing to guide visiting foreign NPN Members for a (Fee) or (Free)?
Please do not hesitate to have questions removed or added
With regard to your more ambitious project (the more extensive questionnaire) as noted above:
To the extent you want accurate information, I submit that asking people to respond to a survey request isn't the way to go about it. You're going to have a substantial non-response rate; I don't know exactly how large, but believe me, it's going to be significant. (It wouldn't surprise me if the rate of non-response exceeds 50%--possibly by a lot.) That would leave you to extrapolate from the sample that does respond...and there's no way at all to know whether this sub-sample is reflective of the overall population; the larger the rate of non-response, the more likely it is that assuming similarity is fallacious and, regardless, there's no way to know.
Self-selection sampling is inherently problematic. In any case, if you're hellbent on going this route, I think you'd be better off setting up some kind of private, on-line survey (there are a number of Web-based resources for this sort of thing), to hopefully deal with any concerns that would-be respondents might have about privacy.
I'm a social science research methodologist/statistician; I have very serious concerns about the efficacy of data gathered via any kind of on-line instrument, but I'm also something of a realist and I recognize that this approach is occasionally, for a variety of reasons, the only viable methodology available to the researcher. And if, for instance, you're not interested in projecting to the entire NPN membership population (in other words, if your goal is merely to compile a database of interested NPN members), there's nothing wrong with going this route.
You are very right, but as you have pointed out yourself, the response rate is usually very very low. Most probably closer to 20% if a person`s lucky.
The main reason for the extended questionaire is actually just to bouy up the basic data with a little bit more data. I will be the 1st to acceed that some of the questions might not be the right ones and that some better questions may be applied :-)
Please email me some of those weblinks you referred to. It is not in my line of work but I`m still very interested in such things.
Posted by Wim Reyns on October 11, 2009 at 5:31 AM
I'm up for the idea Hendrik, this would be some interesting info.
Wim
Posted by Jim Erhardt on October 11, 2009 at 6:47 AM
I think seeing the distribution of NPN members would be an interesting project. To accomplish only that, I envision a web page with global map(s) where the NPN member simply "clicks" on their location and leaves a marker. No other info would be collected, but a valid NPN membership number would be required to place the marker.
One big global map that can be zoomed-in for precise marker location would be very cool, IMO.
Though I`ve never done it that way, I do have the lisenced software to accomplish exactly that. I`ll definitely study the way to do it, though it will have to start out as a simple GIS presentation.
Posted by David Sewell on October 12, 2009 at 6:49 AM
Hi Hendrik,
Like Kerry, I am a researcher, although in ecological monitoring and statistics rather than social science. Before moving into this field I was in marketing, and there we found that a 2% response rate to a survey was a very good one, to get as high as 20% you will need to be targeting people who are extremely interested in the result. I think that Jim's idea may be more practical, people are far more likely to take part in a survey if it is simply a matter of clicking on a map rather than filling in some sort of lengthy form. The best advice is to make it fun rather than a chore.
David
Posted by bill meikle on October 12, 2009 at 9:24 AM
Sounds like a fun idea.
Posted by Mark Davies on October 12, 2009 at 10:51 AM
The click map is a good idea. Filling out that form is one step beyond for me.
Posted by Carol Nichols on October 12, 2009 at 12:31 PM
The click map is the way to go.
Posted by Danny Laureys on October 12, 2009 at 2:52 PM
Sound good to me, keep it simple
Posted by Larry Fischer on October 12, 2009 at 6:44 PM
Be sure to get someone from Pategonia, South America !!!!!!!
Talk about photos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
the fisch
Topeka, Kansas, USA
Posted by Bruce Palla on October 12, 2009 at 7:59 PM
I'm interested in anyplace that isn't in the Chicago metro area. Where does everyone reside and shoot?
Posted by Steve Kennedy on October 13, 2009 at 11:01 AM
I'm game also. I think this would be interesting to see.
Posted by Don George on October 13, 2009 at 11:06 AM
Great idea (click map) I also believe in keeping it simple.
Posted by Hendrik BOSMAN on October 15, 2009 at 12:19 PM
Hi Folks,
Thank you for the support. Not even ONE negative. Thank you for that.
Me thinks that a little update is in order.
I`ve found exactly the correct thing but since I`m not up-to-date on these things I`ll need a little help which I can only get once back in South Africa. Which, incidently, is hopefully on 8th November.
Discussion
22 repliesNow I know that statistics in general are mostly used for the same reason a drunk person uses a lamp post, but, I`d like to know what the international distribution of the NPN membership is.
If it is not in a graphic format I`m quite willing and able (and have the time now) to input these details into a GIS software program and distribute back to the Forum. BTW I on purpose did not ask this by email from the Secretary so that it will not look suspicious in any way AND because I don`t yet know how the hierarchy works
If this is agreeable to most members I`ll gladly post the requirements as a reply to this forum.
Hoping to hear from you soon
Since the 4 members all replied positively and the rest did not give any feedback I can only think that they don`t feel strongly enough either for or against the idea. This also means that if any comparable method of data collection is employed that only about 8% of the members will respond. Now I`m quite sure that that will not be representative and thus a futile excercise.
Now. There are a few ways to ago about getting the basic data.
1. Depending on the format membership data is stored, eg. true database (Access) or just Excel Spreadsheet, I can ask the secretary to extract non-personal data. Such as Country, State, Town, Enrolment date.
From a basic point of view this will be enough data to create a world distribution map.
2. But, I`d like to have something much more complete and will ask "management" (in leiu of a better term) to email everybody and ask them to take part in a forum poll where one only has to use mouse clicks to answer questions. Since I don`t know whether I may be allowed to create a poll (thus doing all the work) if the software allows it. If this is not possible the only bad thing may be that I`ll have to supply the Web Administrator with the questions and then he/she will have to do the work. Now this is not my intention to give other people work but it may be that the current software does not allow a member to create a poll.
3. Last but also the option with the most effort from a member`s point of view is to post the questions on the forum as a separate topic and again ask the secretary to please make a call for everybody to participate. I`ll then have a lot of work to do (not that I mind) to work through all te rreplies to compile a database. What I have against this method is not so much the work but that it will then not be anonymous, which I think is important.
I`m planning to provide the maps a graphics (jpg & png) and will also be able to provide these as DXF, Google Earth and ArcGIS shape files.
Anyway to give forum members a glance at what I`d like to achieve, here are the questions. Just remember that it might be possible to collect this data as a series of polls. Specially if the basic data as in (1) is supplied by the secretary.
Please do not hesitate to have questions removed or added
Thank you in advance for your participation.
To the extent you want accurate information, I submit that asking people to respond to a survey request isn't the way to go about it. You're going to have a substantial non-response rate; I don't know exactly how large, but believe me, it's going to be significant. (It wouldn't surprise me if the rate of non-response exceeds 50%--possibly by a lot.) That would leave you to extrapolate from the sample that does respond...and there's no way at all to know whether this sub-sample is reflective of the overall population; the larger the rate of non-response, the more likely it is that assuming similarity is fallacious and, regardless, there's no way to know.
Self-selection sampling is inherently problematic. In any case, if you're hellbent on going this route, I think you'd be better off setting up some kind of private, on-line survey (there are a number of Web-based resources for this sort of thing), to hopefully deal with any concerns that would-be respondents might have about privacy.
I'm a social science research methodologist/statistician; I have very serious concerns about the efficacy of data gathered via any kind of on-line instrument, but I'm also something of a realist and I recognize that this approach is occasionally, for a variety of reasons, the only viable methodology available to the researcher. And if, for instance, you're not interested in projecting to the entire NPN membership population (in other words, if your goal is merely to compile a database of interested NPN members), there's nothing wrong with going this route.
Thank you for a very positive contribution.
You are very right, but as you have pointed out yourself, the response rate is usually very very low. Most probably closer to 20% if a person`s lucky.
The main reason for the extended questionaire is actually just to bouy up the basic data with a little bit more data. I will be the 1st to acceed that some of the questions might not be the right ones and that some better questions may be applied :-)
Please email me some of those weblinks you referred to. It is not in my line of work but I`m still very interested in such things.
Wim
One big global map that can be zoomed-in for precise marker location would be very cool, IMO.
Thank you for your support.
Though I`ve never done it that way, I do have the lisenced software to accomplish exactly that. I`ll definitely study the way to do it, though it will have to start out as a simple GIS presentation.
Like Kerry, I am a researcher, although in ecological monitoring and statistics rather than social science. Before moving into this field I was in marketing, and there we found that a 2% response rate to a survey was a very good one, to get as high as 20% you will need to be targeting people who are extremely interested in the result. I think that Jim's idea may be more practical, people are far more likely to take part in a survey if it is simply a matter of clicking on a map rather than filling in some sort of lengthy form. The best advice is to make it fun rather than a chore.
David
Mark ,
Staffordshire, UK
Talk about photos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
the fisch
Topeka, Kansas, USA
Thank you for the support. Not even ONE negative. Thank you for that.
Me thinks that a little update is in order.
I`ve found exactly the correct thing but since I`m not up-to-date on these things I`ll need a little help which I can only get once back in South Africa. Which, incidently, is hopefully on 8th November.
In the meantime please do not be discouraged.