Sharp-shinned vs Cooper's?

Thanks in advance for taking a shot at these 2 birds. Both were seen this month. As far as I know, both species are possible this time of year here in central Kansas.

Bird 1: Taken in my backyard, in town. My guess is Sharp-shinned Hawk based on habitat.

Bird 2: taken at Quivira NWR, in a tree overlooking a field. I'm going to guess Sharp-shinned again, but not sure. I tried looking at its tail shape as it flew, but couldn't track it fast enough.

thanks again.

Hard to tell how large it is with little to compare it to, but it does appear to be smaller than a Cooper's, so my guess is a Sharpie.

Rob,

#1 is a tough call. As Don said, nothing to do a size comparison with. My initial guess was Sharp-shinned as it felt small to me. Not sure exactly why but I think it had something to do with the tail length and size of the head. However, after closer examination, I am also considering Juvenile Cooper's Hawk. Sibley describes the patterning on the breast on a Coopers as white with thin, fine streaks and the Sharp-shinned is coursely barred and streaked. So, for me, the structure of the bird favor's Sharp-shinned while the plumage patterning favor's Coopers. I'd rather stake my ID on structure than plumage patterning that can vary so I'll say Sharp-shinned but I'd love to hear other opinions.

#2 is different. First off, the bird is not an Accipiter but from the genus Buteo. It is a much heavier bird and much larger. My first instinct was a juvenile Red-tailed Hawk as the barred tail and overall feel fits. However, the light plumage on the face throws me a bit as I don't see a light headed bird illustrated. Red-tails can be very variable so maybe thats just part of it. I can't see the breast very well, but it looks like the belly band might be there but its hard to tell. Again, would love to hear some other opinions.

Tough birds!

Drew

#1. My money is on a sharpie. It's a bit tough because of the lack of true size comparison - but it just "looks" small (the gizz of the bird perhaps?). The easiest way to tell them apart is the tail feathers, which are blunt and squared off on a Sharpie and rounded on a Cooper's but that's not possible here. It's also def. a juvenile because of the streaking on the breast feathers. It doesn't look like it has a "big" head which the Cooper's would, and the Sharpie is much more likely to be spotted in a backyard vs. the Cooper's, but I'll defer a definitive to a true expert and not someone looking in a book they just bought!

#2. I'm consulting my Peterson's Filed Guide to North American Birds which I actually picked up today (how convenient!) Looks like a "Krider's juvenile Red-Tailed Hawk" which winters south through the plains down to TX and LA. This "race" of Red-Tailed hawk has the whitish/rufous colorings evidenced in the photos. Also, the eye is light yellow, which it wouldn't be in a Cooper's or a Sharpie. I agree with Drew that the white on the face throws it of from being a standard red-tailed hawk.

- Luke

#1 - I'm with Luke on this one. The proportionately smaller head and the cap and back being pretty much the same color points to a Sharp-shinned for me. Add the small amount of white on the tail and fairly vague superciliary stripe and I can almost convinance myself it is a Sharpie. Wish I could see the tail better.

#2 - Juvenile Red-tailed Hawk, likely the Kriderii subspecies, and likely a juvenile.

Thanks for all the input. The first bird was fairly small, which along with the habitat is what had me thinking Sharp-shinned. Thanks for the major correction to the second bird :). I'm not sure if I've seen the Kriders subspecies before, but I know they have been reported around here.

thanks again.

First bird is imm Cooper's Hawk. (Large tarsis, teardrop shaped markings on breast, small eye compared to head size etc....) Second is imm Red-tailed and not Kriders. Redtails are pretty vairiable but Krider's are strikingly different from others.

I am concerned about the very feathered legs on #2 which are not typical of red tails. So maybe Ferruginous Hawk? Large feet, feathered legs, large bill, obviously a good sized bird.

I noticed the feathered legs too but wasn't quite sure what to make of it. I'm not very familiar with the more western raptors.

Drew

Guys, you know what..that second bird looks an awful lot like a Rough-legged Hawk to me.

Nick,

You just had to throw in your 2 cents didn't you....

Sorry Luke, it does though !

Hi, Rob,
Here's the opinion (s) of another Graham.
The first bird is, IMSO, a juv. sharp-shinned because:

1. although the position of the tail prevents determining if it would be squared-off or rounded,
2. and although there is no definitive size referent in the photo,
3. and although the yellow eye is a shared characteristic juvenile accipiters,

I am confident, none-the-less, that this bird is a sharpie because .... the delicate refinement of the rhamphotheca is that of the bill of a sharpie, rather than that of a Cooper's which has a heavier, more robust bill.

There. I said it and I'm glad!

to continue in my usual (justifiably, I think...) opinionated manner:

The second bird is unmistakably a juv. red-tailed hawk, not a rough-legged. The feathers that seem to "feather" the lower leg (the tarso-metatarsus) are actually the long feathers that arise from the lateral feather tract on the tibial ("Calf region") of the leg. The feathers that cover the lower leg of rough-leggeds are shorter, more dense, and more..."fluffy"... as theie ends spread slightly over the tarso-phalangeal joints to cover the upper ends of the phalanges. Nothing about the plumage of this bird would suggest that it was a so-called "Krider's" hawk, which is simply a red-tail with a mutation or several mutations that result in exhibiting a variable degree of local melanin pigment dilution or focal leukism ("piebald").

Dave Graham
Estelline, SD