Posted by Paul Wegemann on January 5, 2010 at 8:37 PM
This question is directed at those of you who have upgraded from the 5D to the 5DMk II. I'm currently using the 5D, but I've been slowly saving up for the Mk II. I'm about there and am wondering if those of you who have upgraded are happy with the upgrade? On paper, I find everything about the Mk II to be appealing, but feedback from people who actually use this camera for landscapes would be very helpful. For those of you who print large, is the resolution difference between the two cameras noticeable? I'm really impressed with some of the high ISO shots I see. What do you Mk II users think? How about live view? Is it really good enough for accurate manual focusing? Can it replace using the DOF button? Does the micro focus adjust work or is that just a gimmick? How about the auto sensor cleaning? Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
Paul
I upgraded to MKII about 5 months ago. No regrets! The noise improvement at ISO 800-3200 is worth the upgrade alone. The extra pixels are great, but i have found that you need to be more careful about camera shake--definitely use a tripod, remote, and MLO. Otherwise, you gets lots more pixels, but no more resolutuion! Live view is a terrific feature and ive only started using it, i think its better than the DOF button which i never used much. I had no idea there was a "micro focus adjust"--guess i should actually read the manual! I think the sensor cleaning helps a lot--but i already have a couple spots that cant be blown away--so ill have to manually clean at some point, but cant complain too much given the amount of times ive been in the field changing lenses over the past 5 months! Basically, its a no-brainer--if you have the funds--dont wait! If you dont, sell a kidney!
Posted by Chris Rice on January 5, 2010 at 8:52 PM
Paul, clearly the resolution is a large part of the upgrade. There are a number of things that are better, one of them being the Live View focus capability (which I haven't even used yet), and if you want to shoot some HD video, you can do so. The list goes on, but the biggest thing for me I have noticed is that you need really good glass for it; for instance I have an original 17-40 f4 L that does not perform as well on the MK2 than it did on the 5D. Call it fall-off or vignetting, but the difference is clear. I have a feeling the higher pixel density has something to do with it. Obvious things to consider.
Interesting, Christopher--i also use the 17-40L and i havent seen that drop off at all. What i did find is what i mentioned above--that any camera movement is going to be picked up, so its more sensitive in that regard.
Posted by Chris Rice on January 5, 2010 at 9:02 PM
Yeah Stan I understand that this tends to happen to some folks and not others - when I say old I mean old, right after PMA announcement in 2003 I got it for my state-of the art, incredible optical imaging machine, the EOS 10D. There have been slight improvements to the optics (allegedly) to later models so if yours is newer you may not experience it..... funny how life works in mysterious ways...
I sold my 17-40mm and upgraded to a 16-35mm II after buying the 5D2 because the lens performance w/ that camera was way under par. Acceptable w/ a 1Ds MKII, but not with the 5D2. Sorry, I know this post is directed at those who upgraded from a 5D to a 5D2 but thought I'd throw in my 2 cents on the 17-40mm lens topic.
Posted by Todd Caudle on January 5, 2010 at 9:40 PM
I switched to Viceroy -- er, I mean, the 5D Mk-2 -- back in October, and my only regrets are a) not having nearly enough time to use it since then, and b) not buying it SOONER! Unless you plan to keep your original 5D, you're basically upgrading for around $1500, since $1200 is a pretty common going rate for used 5D's. I talked to Adam down in Taos and he said he found my original lens choice, the Canon 24-105L, didn't perform well enough for his taste, and he suggested I consider the 24-70L f2.8. I did, and although it's quite a bazooka lens, it works well on the new camera. The camera also has the capability of peripheral illumination specific to whatever Canon lens you have on it, so that's something Chris might want to investigate.
All in all, as good as the original 5D is, it's ancient in terms of digital camera technology, so the only reason I'd wait is if there were strong rumors of a replacement for the Mark-2 for the near future. There's not.
Posted by Nick Moore on January 5, 2010 at 10:14 PM
Hey Paul, I concur mostly with everyone's thoughts above regarding the jump from 5D to 5Dmkii. The extra pixels helps if you need to crop, but I don't think it is a major selling point of the camera imo, but the better noise handling at high ISO's, and IQ is for sure. I use the 17-40 and 24-105 lenses with the mkii, and to be honest I have not noticed any real difference compared to when I used them on the 5D.
The auto sensor cleaning seems to work fairly well, but you'll still get dust spots, just not as many!. The Live view feature is pretty sweet, although I have to admit I don't use it too much personally.
I don't think you'd regret the step up to the mkii at all, I think this model will be around for quite a few years to come!.
Posted by John Mumaw on January 5, 2010 at 11:15 PM
I'm with Stan on this one.
The 17-40 and 24-105 lenses that I have perform magnificently with my 5DII.
Nearly every comparison review I've read of the 17-40 vs. the 16-35 has proven the difference between the two lenses to be a wash in regard to image quality. Certainly not in price, though!
I never owned a 5D, so can't help you there. Just wanted to mention that I use LiveView in conjunction with the DOF preview and wonder how I ever did without now in regard to focusing on the hyperfocal point in order to achieve tack sharpness from fore to aft.
Posted by Sarah Marino on January 5, 2010 at 11:21 PM
Hi Paul –
I can’t speak about upgrading from the original 5D, but I can say that I really love my 5DII. I was not planning to upgrade from my previous DSLR, but this summer my camera (the Pentax equivalent of the Canon 50D) died a difficult and sudden death in Yosemite, half way into a three week trip. Instead of investing more in the Pentax system (that I was growing out of anyway), I decided to switch to Canon and get the 5DII. I have had it since July and am really pleased with the investment.
I have really enjoyed using live view for manual focusing as it has helped me be more deliberate and contemplative in the field. The live view does drain the battery rapidly, so extra batteries are an absolute necessity if you will be using the camera for backpacking or really long days in the field. I have found that the live view has helped me substantially in perfecting my focus. The live histogram is also a great feature. The high ISO has been fun to play with, especially at night, and definitely increases the flexibility of the camera. The auto sensor cleaning has worked well for me, even with lots of lens changes in pretty rough conditions. I have only had to use a blower once – the auto cleaning has worked every other time.
A few minor annoyances… The menus are not terribly intuitive. Some features I frequently use are buried, so I have set the custom functions so I do not need to mess with the menus all the time. I also liked the locations of the manually selectable focus points on my Pentax a lot better. Finally, I have found the autofocus to be sluggish, as most reviews discuss.
As for lenses… I have the 17-40, 24-105, and 70-200 f/4. I am very pleased with the performance of the 24-105 and the 70-200. The 17-40 works well for my purposes since I cannot justify buying the 16-35 or the fancy Nikon wide angle zoom/adapter combo. However, it is a little soft on the edges and there is some light fall-off – no big deal for me, but obviously a problem for others.
So, I can’t say if you should upgrade, but can definitely tell you that I love the camera.
Posted by Guy Schmickle on January 5, 2010 at 11:30 PM
I agree with John in that the addition of the live view feature is a great selling point in itself. It really is good enough for manual focusing...I do it all the time. I feel the mark II is either as good (mostly referring to the AF capability) or better than the original in every category. I noticed an incremental drop in the IQ of shots when paired with my 17-40 as well, but I'm pretty sure my copy of that lens wasn't very good to start with. I really need to send it to Canon. Print-wise, I don't think you'll start noticing the difference between the two until you get to 20x30 or larger prints. If you don't print that large, then the increased resolution really won't help you too much.
The one thing that I do feel is gimmicky on the camera is the anti-dust feature. For whatever reason, my Mark II is more of a dust magnet than the original (and the original was bad in that regard).
Posted by Paul DeCesare on January 6, 2010 at 9:39 AM
Hi Paul,
I had the 5D for year, shot some landscapes with a 17-40mm, then sold the 5D the week the 5D2 was announced so I could still get a good price for it on eBay. I got the 5D2 in January and I couldn't be happier! To address your questions:
For those of you who print large, is the resolution difference between the two cameras noticeable?
Absolutely, but I think the 14-bit image in the 5D2 adds to the image quality too. I can hit the 5D2 raw files way harder with edits in PS CS4 then I ever could with the 5D files.
I'm really impressed with some of the high ISO shots I see.
I shoot a fair amount indoors at 1600 and almost forget I have it that high, it's that good. I set the High ISO Noise Reduction function thingy to "Standard" because the camera does a good job of cleanup. I use Noise Ninja sometimes but just at the default setting. It doesn't need much. On a tripod at ISO 100 the 5D2 REALLY shines.
How about live view? Is it really good enough for accurate manual focusing? Can it replace using the DOF button?
LOL! I balked at LiveView when I heard it was on the 5D2. Now I can't shoot with out it. Well, I don't compose with it, I'm a long-time viewfinder guy. BUT, when on a tripod, turn on LiveView, then hit the button on the top right on the back of the camera (whatever button that is!) and you will zoom in 10x on your image. Then you can manually tweak focus dead on. That is a HUGE feature!
Does the micro focus adjust work or is that just a gimmick?
Definitely not a gimmick! Can you imagine being able to adjust your camera to compensate for a lens' backfocus issue? No sending it to Canon anymore! The 5D2 remembers each lens separately (I use all Canon glass, have no idea about third party). My 16-35mm and 24-70mm are dead on, but my 70-200mm needed an adjustment. It's real easy: set up a tripod and shoot something nearby, maybe 20 feet away. Then use LiveView and zoom in on your image. Then shoot the same shots at +5, +10, +15, (then -5, -10, -15), and pick the one that's best. Don't buy all the "calibration" gadgets, it's an expense that's not necessary IMO.
How about the auto sensor cleaning?
I used to call my old 5D the Psycho Nuclear Dustball Magnet. The 5D2 sensor cleaning thing is a blessing and a half. I did have a huge chunk on my sensor the first month that wouldn't come off with air bulb or Dust-Aid dry cleaner pads. So I got the Dust-Aid wet cleaner and that did the trick. Now with careful lens changes I have had NO dust spots in almost a year. Seriously.
Quick note on the 17-40mm: I was one of those that saw the image quality go BLEAH once on my 5D2. I was never happy with low-light indoor shots on that thing either, maybe mine wasn't a great version. It was SHARP, just not good contrast. Felt like the 5D2 overpowered it or something. So I sold it and gritted teeth and got the 16-35mm/2.8, and WOW, what a difference! Contrast and pop and rich tones have returned! Having said that, my other lenses perform VERY well on the 5D2: 70-200mm/2.8 (non-IS), 24-70mm, 100mm/2.8 Macro, and the now-sold 50mm/1.4. These lenses all laugh at the 5D2 sensor, no out-resolving there. The lens that surpised me the most with it's PRIME-like quality was the 24-70mm. That lens is insane, gorgeous contrast and tone and sharpness. I expect and get that from the 70-200mm & the 100mm prime, but the 24-70mm continues to amaze me. It's made for that 5D2 IMO.
OK, couple of pros/cons, especially in relation to the 5D:
GOOD:
Image quality, Image quality, Image quality. There is just so much data you can pull out of RAW, it's amazing, the dynamic range is much better than the 5D.
LCD: Amazing improvement, it's like a small HD TV on the back. It's bright and can fool you, so trust your histogram!
THREE Presets: Like this a lot. I keep one for landscapes (mirror lockup, etc), one for video, and one for "Hurry, get the shot!"
User Menus: Your most-used menus can be set up on a custom menu for easy access. 2-second mirror lockup is now just a couple buttons away, no digging into deep menus. Still want a hardware solution for that, oh well.
AF: I find this thing focuses better, but that may be because I now have better glass, all 2.8, and backfocus is dialed in with the microadjustment (which is another plus of course!).
21MP: Huge. Amazing. I can crop a 200mm image like it was shot with 400mm and still have a 12mp image. Can't say enough about that!
Video: if you are interested in video (which I am now more than ever), there's nothing to "rate", the 5D2 is incredible there. Vincent Laforet proved that with Reverie Canon's firmware is coming out soon that will give the 5D2 24p, then it will become the ultimate camera. How good is the video? George Lucas is now testing it out to use for tight shots, in addition to his Sony F35 he shoots with. There's a fella in the UK named Philip Bloom who's consulting Lucas Films on the 5D2 and 7D.
HDMI Output jack: Nothing like seeing what you shoot on a 24" HD monitor if that's something you're after!
Remote Control: the cheap $25 wireless remote that's made for the Rebel series works with the 5D2. kind of nice feature, especially when you set up for birding, etc.
There's more, but I've already written way too much!
BAD:
Few things:
--I sometimes wish the FPS was a tad faster especially when panning birds taking off.
--The power switch and CF card door seem so easily breakable to me, I approach them VERY gingerly.
--You need either PS CS4, LR, or PSD Elements 6, 7, or 8. CS3 will NOT open your raw files. You can use Canon DPP to do that, then save as TIFF if you youse CS2 or CS3.
--Video editing: the 1080p HD files are big, and you need some serious PC horsepower to do real editing (I ended up building an i7 rig w/12GB ram and 5 hard drives for the task, but it also makes a great Photoshop machine!). If you have a MacPro you can natively edit. If you have a PC and Adobe Premiere like me, then you have to convert your 5D2 movie files to .AVI's using Cineform's NeoScene (another $99!), in order to get smooth editing.
Other thoughts:
--Get big, fast CF cards. You're shooting nearly 30mb RAW files with the 5D2. UDMA cards work much faster, and the buffer doesn't take as long to finish writing if you are holding down the shutter. Amazon has the new SanDisk Extreme 60mb series 16GB cards for $110 which is 30% less than everywhere else.
--Does anyone know why Canon chooses to allow shooting with no CF card as the default?? WEIRD! Change that in the Function menu ASAP.
--The goofy Direct Print button now controls LiveView/Video, so it has SOME purpose now!
OK, that's about it. If you have any more 5D vs 5D2 questions, maybe email me. If I post another huge reply like this one I may get beaned by the other members.
Posted by John Mumaw on January 6, 2010 at 9:50 AM
If I post another huge reply like this one I may get beaned by the other members.
Are you kidding?!? That was a superb capsule review!!!
Posted by Paul Wegemann on January 6, 2010 at 1:01 PM
This is why I love this forum. You folks have been really helpful. Thanks to all for the great info.
Posted by Jeff Beard on January 6, 2010 at 3:32 PM
CS3 will NOT open your raw files.
Is this the case even with the latest version of ACR?
Posted by Paul DeCesare on January 6, 2010 at 4:43 PM
Ah, I should have said that the ACR (v4.x) that comes/works with CS3 won't open 5D2 raw files. The latest version (v5.x) of ACR opens 5D2 and 7D files, and that ACR works with CS4, LR, and PSE 6, 7, 8.
I'm still trying to figure out why the ACR version and the CS version don't match...
Posted by Jeff Beard on January 7, 2010 at 12:27 PM
Since I'm considering a purchase of the MkII later this year, I did a little more research. I found that if you use CS3 (PS/ACR/Bridge) you can either upgrade to CS4 ($$$), convert to DNG with this conversion utility, or if you also have Lightroom 2.2 you can import into that, convert to DNG before opening in PS or Bridge.
So if you are like me and have a preference for PS/ACR/Bridge, there might be an additional expense to the upgrade ($499 on the Adobe site).
Discussion
16 repliesPaul
...which makes me yearn for the 16-35 2.8....
All in all, as good as the original 5D is, it's ancient in terms of digital camera technology, so the only reason I'd wait is if there were strong rumors of a replacement for the Mark-2 for the near future. There's not.
The auto sensor cleaning seems to work fairly well, but you'll still get dust spots, just not as many!. The Live view feature is pretty sweet, although I have to admit I don't use it too much personally.
I don't think you'd regret the step up to the mkii at all, I think this model will be around for quite a few years to come!.
The 17-40 and 24-105 lenses that I have perform magnificently with my 5DII.
Nearly every comparison review I've read of the 17-40 vs. the 16-35 has proven the difference between the two lenses to be a wash in regard to image quality. Certainly not in price, though!
I never owned a 5D, so can't help you there. Just wanted to mention that I use LiveView in conjunction with the DOF preview and wonder how I ever did without now in regard to focusing on the hyperfocal point in order to achieve tack sharpness from fore to aft.
I can’t speak about upgrading from the original 5D, but I can say that I really love my 5DII. I was not planning to upgrade from my previous DSLR, but this summer my camera (the Pentax equivalent of the Canon 50D) died a difficult and sudden death in Yosemite, half way into a three week trip. Instead of investing more in the Pentax system (that I was growing out of anyway), I decided to switch to Canon and get the 5DII. I have had it since July and am really pleased with the investment.
I have really enjoyed using live view for manual focusing as it has helped me be more deliberate and contemplative in the field. The live view does drain the battery rapidly, so extra batteries are an absolute necessity if you will be using the camera for backpacking or really long days in the field. I have found that the live view has helped me substantially in perfecting my focus. The live histogram is also a great feature. The high ISO has been fun to play with, especially at night, and definitely increases the flexibility of the camera. The auto sensor cleaning has worked well for me, even with lots of lens changes in pretty rough conditions. I have only had to use a blower once – the auto cleaning has worked every other time.
A few minor annoyances… The menus are not terribly intuitive. Some features I frequently use are buried, so I have set the custom functions so I do not need to mess with the menus all the time. I also liked the locations of the manually selectable focus points on my Pentax a lot better. Finally, I have found the autofocus to be sluggish, as most reviews discuss.
As for lenses… I have the 17-40, 24-105, and 70-200 f/4. I am very pleased with the performance of the 24-105 and the 70-200. The 17-40 works well for my purposes since I cannot justify buying the 16-35 or the fancy Nikon wide angle zoom/adapter combo. However, it is a little soft on the edges and there is some light fall-off – no big deal for me, but obviously a problem for others.
So, I can’t say if you should upgrade, but can definitely tell you that I love the camera.
The one thing that I do feel is gimmicky on the camera is the anti-dust feature. For whatever reason, my Mark II is more of a dust magnet than the original (and the original was bad in that regard).
I had the 5D for year, shot some landscapes with a 17-40mm, then sold the 5D the week the 5D2 was announced so I could still get a good price for it on eBay. I got the 5D2 in January and I couldn't be happier! To address your questions:
For those of you who print large, is the resolution difference between the two cameras noticeable?
Absolutely, but I think the 14-bit image in the 5D2 adds to the image quality too. I can hit the 5D2 raw files way harder with edits in PS CS4 then I ever could with the 5D files.
I'm really impressed with some of the high ISO shots I see.
I shoot a fair amount indoors at 1600 and almost forget I have it that high, it's that good. I set the High ISO Noise Reduction function thingy to "Standard" because the camera does a good job of cleanup. I use Noise Ninja sometimes but just at the default setting. It doesn't need much. On a tripod at ISO 100 the 5D2 REALLY shines.
How about live view? Is it really good enough for accurate manual focusing? Can it replace using the DOF button?
LOL! I balked at LiveView when I heard it was on the 5D2. Now I can't shoot with out it. Well, I don't compose with it, I'm a long-time viewfinder guy. BUT, when on a tripod, turn on LiveView, then hit the button on the top right on the back of the camera (whatever button that is!) and you will zoom in 10x on your image. Then you can manually tweak focus dead on. That is a HUGE feature!
Does the micro focus adjust work or is that just a gimmick?
Definitely not a gimmick! Can you imagine being able to adjust your camera to compensate for a lens' backfocus issue? No sending it to Canon anymore! The 5D2 remembers each lens separately (I use all Canon glass, have no idea about third party). My 16-35mm and 24-70mm are dead on, but my 70-200mm needed an adjustment. It's real easy: set up a tripod and shoot something nearby, maybe 20 feet away. Then use LiveView and zoom in on your image. Then shoot the same shots at +5, +10, +15, (then -5, -10, -15), and pick the one that's best. Don't buy all the "calibration" gadgets, it's an expense that's not necessary IMO.
How about the auto sensor cleaning?
I used to call my old 5D the Psycho Nuclear Dustball Magnet. The 5D2 sensor cleaning thing is a blessing and a half. I did have a huge chunk on my sensor the first month that wouldn't come off with air bulb or Dust-Aid dry cleaner pads. So I got the Dust-Aid wet cleaner and that did the trick. Now with careful lens changes I have had NO dust spots in almost a year. Seriously.
Quick note on the 17-40mm: I was one of those that saw the image quality go BLEAH once on my 5D2. I was never happy with low-light indoor shots on that thing either, maybe mine wasn't a great version. It was SHARP, just not good contrast. Felt like the 5D2 overpowered it or something. So I sold it and gritted teeth and got the 16-35mm/2.8, and WOW, what a difference! Contrast and pop and rich tones have returned! Having said that, my other lenses perform VERY well on the 5D2: 70-200mm/2.8 (non-IS), 24-70mm, 100mm/2.8 Macro, and the now-sold 50mm/1.4. These lenses all laugh at the 5D2 sensor, no out-resolving there. The lens that surpised me the most with it's PRIME-like quality was the 24-70mm. That lens is insane, gorgeous contrast and tone and sharpness. I expect and get that from the 70-200mm & the 100mm prime, but the 24-70mm continues to amaze me. It's made for that 5D2 IMO.
OK, couple of pros/cons, especially in relation to the 5D:
GOOD:
Image quality, Image quality, Image quality. There is just so much data you can pull out of RAW, it's amazing, the dynamic range is much better than the 5D.
LCD: Amazing improvement, it's like a small HD TV on the back. It's bright and can fool you, so trust your histogram!
THREE Presets: Like this a lot. I keep one for landscapes (mirror lockup, etc), one for video, and one for "Hurry, get the shot!"
User Menus: Your most-used menus can be set up on a custom menu for easy access. 2-second mirror lockup is now just a couple buttons away, no digging into deep menus. Still want a hardware solution for that, oh well.
AF: I find this thing focuses better, but that may be because I now have better glass, all 2.8, and backfocus is dialed in with the microadjustment (which is another plus of course!).
21MP: Huge. Amazing. I can crop a 200mm image like it was shot with 400mm and still have a 12mp image. Can't say enough about that!
Video: if you are interested in video (which I am now more than ever), there's nothing to "rate", the 5D2 is incredible there. Vincent Laforet proved that with Reverie Canon's firmware is coming out soon that will give the 5D2 24p, then it will become the ultimate camera. How good is the video? George Lucas is now testing it out to use for tight shots, in addition to his Sony F35 he shoots with. There's a fella in the UK named Philip Bloom who's consulting Lucas Films on the 5D2 and 7D.
HDMI Output jack: Nothing like seeing what you shoot on a 24" HD monitor if that's something you're after!
Remote Control: the cheap $25 wireless remote that's made for the Rebel series works with the 5D2. kind of nice feature, especially when you set up for birding, etc.
There's more, but I've already written way too much!
BAD:
Few things:
--I sometimes wish the FPS was a tad faster especially when panning birds taking off.
--The power switch and CF card door seem so easily breakable to me, I approach them VERY gingerly.
--You need either PS CS4, LR, or PSD Elements 6, 7, or 8. CS3 will NOT open your raw files. You can use Canon DPP to do that, then save as TIFF if you youse CS2 or CS3.
--Video editing: the 1080p HD files are big, and you need some serious PC horsepower to do real editing (I ended up building an i7 rig w/12GB ram and 5 hard drives for the task, but it also makes a great Photoshop machine!). If you have a MacPro you can natively edit. If you have a PC and Adobe Premiere like me, then you have to convert your 5D2 movie files to .AVI's using Cineform's NeoScene (another $99!), in order to get smooth editing.
Other thoughts:
--Get big, fast CF cards. You're shooting nearly 30mb RAW files with the 5D2. UDMA cards work much faster, and the buffer doesn't take as long to finish writing if you are holding down the shutter. Amazon has the new SanDisk Extreme 60mb series 16GB cards for $110 which is 30% less than everywhere else.
--Does anyone know why Canon chooses to allow shooting with no CF card as the default?? WEIRD! Change that in the Function menu ASAP.
--The goofy Direct Print button now controls LiveView/Video, so it has SOME purpose now!
OK, that's about it. If you have any more 5D vs 5D2 questions, maybe email me. If I post another huge reply like this one I may get beaned by the other members.
Is this the case even with the latest version of ACR?
I'm still trying to figure out why the ACR version and the CS version don't match...
So if you are like me and have a preference for PS/ACR/Bridge, there might be an additional expense to the upgrade ($499 on the Adobe site).