Photograph School Questions

Hi All

I need some help. I have often wondered if I should go back to school in Photography (formal education) or do the workshop/Seminar route (formal/semi formal)or plug away on my own reading, shooting, shooting and shooting.

Any ideas?

1. Art Institute in Denver--formal in classroom education?
2. Seminars and Workshops
3. On my own

Is the Art Institute worth the price? 50,000 for thier associates--with what I need to take.

I really want to get some indepth instruction. I'm doing ok in some areas and not so good in others. Art institute is expensive.

Really stumped on this one and any insight/help would be awesome.

thanks

50K for Art Institute??? Wow, that would buy a lot of trips to exotic locales. And a lot of primo gear. And a lot of seminars and workshops. There, you have my answer.

Hi Todd

Thats part of my quandry. I need some classroom/sitdown instruction on camera, composure, lines etc etc.

I could take the time to learn in via books, seminars etc. I want to move quicker. If I do formal education I can possibly get school funding. Seminars and Workshops I would have to come up with the money--(short supply right now).

Buying glass makes sense but dont have the money for that right now.

Do I just save up and just buy glass?

I looked into the Brooks Institute of Photography a few years ago. The curriculum and their reputation is outstanding but it does come with a high price. I've also looked into the Rocky Mountain School of Photography Summer Intensive course. It isn't a college course but based on what I learned in my research it's a comprehensive and well-respected program. I think it's around $7,000 for the summer. Not exactly cheap but it might be a good option.

Aside from that, I'd say shoot as much as you can and see honest, brutal critiques frequently. Take workshops, read books, study the work of photographers you admire. And if you really want to succeed in photography, get a degree in business!

Lynn, you might want to look into the career training offerings at the Rocky Mountain School of Photography. Unfortunately, it is not local, and you would not have any tuition assisstance. I do not know of anyone who has attended this program. I hope someone else can provide some insight.

http://www.rmsp.com/Career/Default.aspx

What area of photography do you want to pursue?

50K for an Associates degree is a HUGE ripoff. Look at Metro State's art program (or CU or UCCS or CSU...) and get a bachelors degree for the same money (or less) if you really want an art degree.

As for the rest of the question.

Glass won't make you a better photographer.

Get the foundations right. Composition and Exposure/Focus(camera mechanics) are probably the two biggest items to start with. You can do that through books and self-study or through workshops. If you choose books, then Michael Freeman's "The Photographer's Eye" covers composition and there MANY books that discuss exposure/focus/DOF side of the equation and the movement to digital cameras hasn't significantly changed the content of these books. Digital cameras have really made this easy to learn because you can apply the concept in the book and get instant feedback through the LCD.

Then you can expand into the deeper areas of photography and art. You might want to take some courses on lighting or color theory. If you do choose to take the higher education route, then be aware that if you intend to run a photography business, you should be taking business courses as part of your degree program.

That said, my degree is in Metallurgical Engineering and I have no personal experience in a higher-ed art degree program. A friend of mine taught in the art program at Metro State and I do have a basic idea of the program flow.

Hi Bret

I appreciate you jumping in on this one Bret.

I looked at the Summer intensive but the guiding season would interfer with that option. Fishy's will be calling my name along with shooting in Yellowstone and Teton Parks. It would be a nice option though.

I will be throwing out some photo's for Critiques. I have done on some other forums but the more a look at what you all are doing. I will be putting some on here for critiques. You guys are shooting some awesome stuff.

Part of what the institute offers is the business side of photography. I also have a busines Minor. I'm not so much worried about the business aspect but understand your point for sure.

Appreciate your insight and help.

thanks

Forgot that you are up in the Yellowstone region, but I'm sure you'll be able to find something comparable with in-state tuition in Wyoming, Montana or Idaho.

Hi Lynn,
It sounds like you are leaning towards a formal education, but I'll just throw this out...
Have you thought about recruiting a mentor? This allows you to select someone who is successful and has the skills you need to learn. Of course, they must also be willing to give you their time. But it never hurts to ask! Have your objectives and maybe a time frame and time commitment clearly defined. I've found mentor-student relationships to be very rewarding in both directions.

What is your end goal? If it is commercial photography (models, products, etc), an apprenticeship with an established pro to learn the realities of the business, combined with formal schooling, like Brooks, would be the way to go. \
If it is to occasionally win a photo contest or get awesome landscape/wildlife shots to hang on the wall or sell to acquaintances, then an occasional workshop that is geared toward the type of photos you take would work quite well along with your at home and in the field personal time. But, the number one way to get that awesome shot is ------contact time with your subject ( aka. field time). You just have to be there when the light makes it happen!

I think a lot depends on the type of photography you are wanting to do. I got started in landscape photography by attending some workshops on composition, exposure and such. The best way to learn in my opinion is in the field with a leader that really knows what they are doing. Also read, read and read some more. I have books by John Shaw, Tim Fitzharris and others that have great tips. Then get out there and shoot. Try different exposures and comps. Finally, submit them to a forum like this and get some honest feedback. That's the best way I know to get better. If you are looking to specialize in a particular area like portraits then that can be a lot more subjective and may require more formal training. One last thing, if you are looking to be an expert overnite, my advice is to slow down and take your time. A Mac Davis song says " you got to stop and smell the roses." That phrase has helped me a lot.

Although you can gain some understanding of photography through reading most of what you will learn is experiencial. Shoot a bunch, evaluate through reliable feedback, and shoot somemore. There are seminars and workshop that do both field and classroom work and I would suggest you go to as many of these as possible. If you go with the so called "top shooters" they can be somewhat expensive but excellent. There are many members on this forum that are highly capable and talented photographers and might be willing to let you let you buy some of their daytime. You just have to ask. I have earned my living in photography for thirty years now. Of course, I have been a portrait photographer primarily with a studio, etc, and nature and landscape is a "whole nother animal", but, it is still a business and you would be well served to save your degree work for business.Many of the photographers I know who earned college degrees in Photography or went to Brooks had to retrain themselves after getting into the buisness world. Photography is a practice, much like law and medicine where you evolve rather that reach a final destination.
Joe Rogers

Mel--Im actually in Cheyenne but a Fly Fishing Guide in Idaho. So I fish and shoot pictures alot :) I understand glass won't do it all but it sure helps. I guess part of what I have been saying is--I need some foundation work. I read books and books and shoot and shoot. The subjects you mentioned around Composition, Exposure and Camera mechanics is what is needed--more in depth anyway. I have some mechanics in those areas but need additional work.

Scott---I would much rather hire a Tutor/Mentor. I learn much better hands on than I do anything else. Finding someone willing has been the difficult part. Course being in the areas I have lived have had a limiting impact on options. I would be willing to travel to meet with some one or shoot with someone. I would be willing to trade a guided fly fishing trip for exchange for help. The guiding would have to be done in Idaho---20 min away from Yellowstone National Park :)

Anyone willing or wanting to tutor or mentor?

Really need to hear your end goal, as Don asked earlier. If you decide to drift towards the workshop route, I highly recommend Rich Clarkson's series of Photography At The Summit workshops. The spring and fall sessions are held in Jackson Hole and are a week long. His staff are top notch. I did one in the spring one year and was amazed how much I progressed in just a couple days. They'll give discounts for members of professional organizations, such as NANPA, PPA, etc.

Don----

--Although I would like to learn and be able to do all forms of photography. However, Landscape, Wildlife type is my passion. I would like to be able to do better portrait at some point. I want to do more than win a few contests. I'm way more passionate about the photography and want to put in the time. I have and enjoy putting lots of time in the field and plan on doing more and more. I just need more help to fill in some holes and make me better.

Joe----

Appreciated your comments as well--I always refer to myself as a work in progress. Having been in the mental health field for ages I understanding the evolving :)

Niel---

I would love the RMSP--my problem is I have a three year old--wife works full time. Going long term like for the summer is out other than for shorter durations. I will look at thier spring time event in Denver though. That looks fun and helpful.

Lynn:

Glad to be of assistance. I've long believed that you can make a ton of cash in this business if youre an average photographer but a great businessperson.

I have seen a few workshops over the years that focus on the business side of photography. Never taken one of them so I can't comment on how useful they are but I suspect that if you took a workshop from a reputable company you might find some value.

Also, the John Shaw book, "The Business of Nature Photography" has a lot of good information on running a nature photography business. Another good resource is produced by the same company who produces the "Photographer's Market" books. Can't remember the name of the book but it is more current than John's and has lots of good info.

Hi Ken

Not sure how to define my goal.

I want to be able to go out on any given day---into multiply surroundings--being able to set exposure, composition and get a sharp shot. My main subject areas would be Landscape, Wildlife, Travel. I would like to learn portriat at some point.

A good long dicussion with someone to help define what i want to do :) Just searching for answers. This actually has really helped. Alot of really good information.

Bret

Thanks a bunch. I will look up the information and books. You guys have been very helpfull. I appreciate it all a bunch.

Lynn, I live in Bozeman and would be willing to take you up on your offer. Drop me an e-mail and we can talk about it.

Lynn,

Rocky Mountain School of Photography is practically in your backyard and would highly recommend one of their workshops. They do a lot more education than simply getting you into good photo situations. I would be happy to talk to you by phone or email to discuss your goals. I would think that a really beautiful and compelling fly-fishing portfolio would be a great place to start - and you can accomplish a lot here by simply posting, viewing other's work and studying the critiques. There aren't any shortcuts and almost any pro will tell you that the way to get good is to shoot a lot. Having no fear of failure also helps.

For the RMSP option, also consider that there are week long professional studies classes as well at the end of the summer. The class by Heath K. could be of interest to you based on the discussion of fly fishing above. I am friends for someone who has done some model work with him before in Whitefish and have heard good things.

Recommend that you look up Barb and John Gerlach.
They live in Ashton, Idaho.
They have made a living out of nature photography since 1980.
He shoots Canon, she shoots Nikon.
I have taken several of their workshops. They have a special
nack for teaching.
Their latest book: Digital Landscape Photography-Recommend it.

http://www.gerlachnaturephoto.com

P.S. Check out the articles on his website.

Lynn, I have not taken any of there classes, but Arapahoe Community College offers Community Classes which do not go towards any college credits, but they do offer classromm time with professional photographers for a very reasonable proce. most of the courses rang from $44 to $89 and are 3-6 weeks one or two nights per week. Here is there site: http://www.arapahoe.edu/community-education/winter-courses/registration/current-schedule-winter/photography

Hi Arthur

Appreciate your comments. It's kinda funny I just moved from the area they live :) I didnt even know they existed. I will check them out--I need to be back there in the summer to guide.

Lynn

Lynn, there's another option for when you are indoors but want more than a book: our own Alain Briot has a mega DVD instructional set on his website. He covers a LOT of ground, no pun intended, and it costs $49000 less than the Art Institute.

BTW, moving up to better lenses, say, 2.8 versions won't make you a better photographer, but it will greatly improve the image quality you get. My f2.8's are all about $1000 each and the image quality is nuts compared to consumer lenses, IMO.

And not for nothin', but I just took a quick tour of your gallery, and you do great work!! Wow, the Mitten Shadow shot is great, most folks take that at super wide angle on those two special days, but your tele comp is super! Just enough of each mitten to let the mind fill in the details. That one's a winner!