Posted by Luke Ormand on February 28, 2010 at 9:47 PM
I know this topic has been covered ad nauseam but this is a pretty specific scenario. My boss is writing a book (actually an expanded version of his original publication) and asked if I'd be interested in supplying a few photos (the majority of photos will be provided by the photographer who did all the work for the first book). I said yes and he then told me it wouldn't pay at all, to which I (half jokingly) replied that I can't get a minor payment per copy sold? He said that it's up to the publisher and wondered what I was thinking of so I said I'd get back to him in a few days.
All of the photos I'd be supplying I have already taken (so the work has been done) and I think the # of images would probably be 10-15. As this is a book being published for profit, I don't want to give me work away but there's always "the exposure" factor (which some think is way overrated). So, how do I go about deciding how much to ask for? I know there are some resources that give the market value for these types of things but this is a one time event so I'm hoping someone can share a similar experience. Thanks in advance.
If the publisher doesn't want to pay, you shouldn't play (imvho).
Sorry I can't help with any suggestions other than to nail down the exact number of images used and the expected number of copies of the book. You'll need that info in order to set a price. Also, be sure to write up a usage memo and be sure you state that royalty payment for copies above and beyond the first run is included.
At this point exposure is a good thing. Maybe the publisher can offer you a link to your website where you can sell photos. If you don't have a website maybe he will provide you a onetime payment to setup your own site. Depending on the demographic that would use this book and their desire to own your work it could work to help you launch a site. Also if the publisher has their own site geared towards your subject matter a link to the site would also be very valuable. This could also turn your photography into a business which will provide some tax advantage in the short term. With out knowing what type of book it is I don''t know if this would be viable.
If you wish to speak to someone on this a good friend of mine is very active in this type of thing and I could connect you with him.
At this point exposure is a good thing. Maybe the publisher can offer you a link to your website where you can sell photos. If you don't have a website maybe he will provide you a onetime payment to setup your own site. Depending on the demographic that would use this book and their desire to own your work it could work to help you launch a site. Also if the publisher has their own site geared towards your subject matter a link to the site would also be very valuable. This could also turn your photography into a business which will provide some tax advantage in the short term. With out knowing what type of book it is I don''t know if this would be viable.
If you wish to speak to someone on this a good friend of mine is very active in this type of thing and I could connect you with him.
I have never been in this situation but I'll make a few observations. Your boss is publishing this book for profit. There is another photographer who was/is presumably being compensated for his/her images used in the first and second versions of the book. Your boss wants your images but isn't interested in compensating you for your images. I would not provide images for free and I would ask what that other photog is getting and request similar compensation. If that photog is working for free, I'd suggest your boss goes back to them.
Luke,
The writer is making money, the publisher is making money and you should be making money!!!!!!
The correct answer for giving your work away is " NO, THANK YOU. "
I've yet to buy a single slice of bread by seeing my name in print. Not to mention any camera gear, computer equipment, mortgage or car payments.
Your images have value, don't give them away.
Good Luck Negotiating a fair Price.
Neil
I feel the same way as many of your regarding giving the photos away for free. I never hesitate if it's a non-profit or local government type but the for-profit business is another scenario. I think the suggestion of asking what the other photog was getting is a good one. The publisher (I'm 90% sure) is Harper-Collins, so it's not even like we are talking about some no-name startup that doesn't have a lot of cash on hand.
To answer Mike's questions, the book, to the best of my knowledge, is about flora and fauna of Long Island and as such isn't going to be a big national seller - though that really shouldn't factor into my decision. I've had a few things published by the ABA and am supposed to get the cover of the NYS ornthological journal and those things of course don't pay, but that "exposure" is better than a book, and at least it's for a good cause.
There's an underlying current in the request that bothers me Luke. It's from your boss. There are many more "layers" on the situation than merely publishing rights for a few photos. Your current and future relations with da boss, in particular. And exposing my own prejudices as a one-time employer, I would NEVER put the arm on one of my employees for free contributions to something I was making money from. In this case, I'd be expecting your boss to go to bat with the publisher for payment. Okay, off the soap box.
Asking about the other photog is a good ploy. If you end up having to do it for free, I'd lever more than mere copyright notice. I'd ask for an "about the photographer" byline paragraph along with a listing of your web site.
Glad you picked up on that part! He asked me ahead of time if it's something I'd be interested in doing, and he has helped me with a few connections so he certainly is looking out for my best interests, not just trying to "cash in". I like your idea of a "about the photographer". I guess part of it will depend on how many photos we are talking - if it's 2 or 3 I can see that being a reasonable route to go but I also don't want to "sell myself short"
Hi, Luke. I think Hank is right on the money about the boss. This is tricky. Exchanging favors? Okay, BUT… If the "connections" he helped you with made you some money, maybe you could offer him a discounted price for the photos he wants or a small run of calendars or brochures for marketing or something like that. I agree with not giving your work away! You work hard, you do good work and all of that has value, not to mention the self-respect you deserve by getting fair compensation. Otherwise, I think he can "get what he pays for," if he's looking for something for free. Still, I think it's really tricky getting involved with a boss on something like this. The ramifications can be hard to foresee and difficult to deal with later.
Discussion
10 repliesAll of the photos I'd be supplying I have already taken (so the work has been done) and I think the # of images would probably be 10-15. As this is a book being published for profit, I don't want to give me work away but there's always "the exposure" factor (which some think is way overrated). So, how do I go about deciding how much to ask for? I know there are some resources that give the market value for these types of things but this is a one time event so I'm hoping someone can share a similar experience. Thanks in advance.
- Luke
Sorry I can't help with any suggestions other than to nail down the exact number of images used and the expected number of copies of the book. You'll need that info in order to set a price. Also, be sure to write up a usage memo and be sure you state that royalty payment for copies above and beyond the first run is included.
--P
At this point exposure is a good thing. Maybe the publisher can offer you a link to your website where you can sell photos. If you don't have a website maybe he will provide you a onetime payment to setup your own site. Depending on the demographic that would use this book and their desire to own your work it could work to help you launch a site. Also if the publisher has their own site geared towards your subject matter a link to the site would also be very valuable. This could also turn your photography into a business which will provide some tax advantage in the short term. With out knowing what type of book it is I don''t know if this would be viable.
If you wish to speak to someone on this a good friend of mine is very active in this type of thing and I could connect you with him.
Mike
At this point exposure is a good thing. Maybe the publisher can offer you a link to your website where you can sell photos. If you don't have a website maybe he will provide you a onetime payment to setup your own site. Depending on the demographic that would use this book and their desire to own your work it could work to help you launch a site. Also if the publisher has their own site geared towards your subject matter a link to the site would also be very valuable. This could also turn your photography into a business which will provide some tax advantage in the short term. With out knowing what type of book it is I don''t know if this would be viable.
If you wish to speak to someone on this a good friend of mine is very active in this type of thing and I could connect you with him.
Mike
The writer is making money, the publisher is making money and you should be making money!!!!!!
The correct answer for giving your work away is " NO, THANK YOU. "
I've yet to buy a single slice of bread by seeing my name in print. Not to mention any camera gear, computer equipment, mortgage or car payments.
Your images have value, don't give them away.
Good Luck Negotiating a fair Price.
Neil
To answer Mike's questions, the book, to the best of my knowledge, is about flora and fauna of Long Island and as such isn't going to be a big national seller - though that really shouldn't factor into my decision. I've had a few things published by the ABA and am supposed to get the cover of the NYS ornthological journal and those things of course don't pay, but that "exposure" is better than a book, and at least it's for a good cause.
- Luke
Asking about the other photog is a good ploy. If you end up having to do it for free, I'd lever more than mere copyright notice. I'd ask for an "about the photographer" byline paragraph along with a listing of your web site.
Glad you picked up on that part! He asked me ahead of time if it's something I'd be interested in doing, and he has helped me with a few connections so he certainly is looking out for my best interests, not just trying to "cash in". I like your idea of a "about the photographer". I guess part of it will depend on how many photos we are talking - if it's 2 or 3 I can see that being a reasonable route to go but I also don't want to "sell myself short"
- Luke