Ok, this is embarrassing. I had a small order for some greeting cards. I paid for the printing, prepared my file and then went to print them and realized that the company I'm using requires that the files be prepared in CMYK. I only have PS Elements and so don't have the ability to work in CMYK. Would anyone here be willing to convert the file to CMYK and make some basic adjustments to the file so it prints somewhat close to the original SRGB image? I apologize for asking this.
Posted by Todd Caudle on March 2, 2010 at 10:51 PM
...so it prints somewhat close to the original SRGB image?
Ah, the dilemma. I'll give it a go, Erik. You know my e-mail address, or you can call to discuss it.
Posted by Nat Coalson on March 2, 2010 at 11:51 PM
I'd be happy to help, too, let me know... and certainly no need to apologize!
Converting to CMYK has long been a dark art. Generating a black plate, from three color channels?? Maybe a topic for a video tutorial... I'd like to do it.
I'm sure Todd -- and Grant -- and I take it somewhat for Granted, Grant probably the most. Or least. Hmm.
Posted by Kalin Wilson on March 3, 2010 at 1:47 AM
Eric, Just curious, did you go somewhere other than WHCC for your cards?
I ordered nine sets of press printed cards during their winter sale on watercolor paper and I'm really happy with them. Are you trying someone else?
Hey everyone! Sorry for the delay in getting back to this thread. Jim Casteel let me remotely adjust the file on his computer, but it looks like I didn't get it anywhere near right, so I'll send you an e-mail Nat. Thank you! I can't wait to see a video tutorial as well!
Kalin, I'm still using WHCC for my cards, just not for this order. This client wanted 150 so I ended up using PSPrint.com as they do small order offset printing.
I sure appreciate everyone's help!
Erik
Posted by Jim Casteel on March 3, 2010 at 11:21 AM
Erik, sorry to hear that it didn't end up right. :( I was hoping it would work for you.
Jim, it's just my incompetence with making such adjustments, ignorance of Photoshop and unfamiliarity with Macs. On days like this, I can't believe that I know so little and actually do this for a living.
Posted by Jesse Speer on March 3, 2010 at 11:45 AM
Nat, +1 on the tutorial. Great idea. I want to see it too.
For what it's worth, I've been amazed on the WHCC's ability to produce CMYK products from RGB files with their Indigo presses. The conversion is automated in the press - and I don't know if it's luck or if they have it dialed in - but I have better luck NOT adjusting my files manually for the conversion (their CMYK products work best with sRGB submission). The worst color shift I've seen is hardly worth mentioning. Doesn't sound right, but it works. Their pearl coated cards are the finest short-run product I've ever seen - even better than offset cards (although it's hard to beat PsPrint prices). Anyway, just an FYI for those who don't really want to deal with CMYK for photographic products.
Jesse, I agree completely. For this order it seemed to be more cost efficient to use PSPrint but that was before I realized it had to be in CMYK format. Unfortunately I paid the $ before I realized this. I have nothing but praise for the quality of WHCC products.
Posted by Grant Collier on March 3, 2010 at 12:22 PM
I'd offer to make the adjustments, but I'd probably add some neon glow and maybe the "Stained Glass" filter to make sure the client wouldn't do repeat business with you (maybe I'll bribe Nat to do the same).
I only feel like I've really gotten CMYK printing down in the last year. I've started using luminosity painting (from Tony Kuyper's tutorial) to lighten up the dark areas while also increasing contrast. The dark parts of the image are always the ones that give me trouble in CMYK, as too much ink on the paper gives a muddy-looking effect. Just using luminosity masks to lighten the dark areas also decreases the contrast and can make the image look flat. And I just never quite got what I wanted using Curves alone. You could probably get good results with local adjustments in Lightroom but I'm not comfortable working w/out soft-proofing.
Posted by Laurie Wendt on March 3, 2010 at 2:17 PM
Erik, I've been doing photoshop for a sheetfed printing company for 20+ years now. I've found that some RGB colors do not convert well into the CMYK color space. I have the most problem with vibrant high saturated RGB colors, they just don't have a CMYK equivalent and can't be matched. I'm not local to Colorado but if I can help, please don't hesitate to contact me.
Posted by Nat Coalson on March 5, 2010 at 10:14 AM
The basic process is very simple... but with a few caveats and potential gotchas.
In Photoshop, go under Edit > Convert to Profile. In that dialog box, select the CMYK profile you're going to use and click OK. Viola; CMYK file!
Here are the potential gotchas:
1. If the printer can provide a custom CMYK profile, use it! More and more high-end/high-quality printshops are profiling their presses. This will produce the best possible results.
2. If the printer does not provide a profile, you at least need to know if it's a web or sheetfed press. Then you can use the appropriate built-in Photoshop profile for that condition.
3. Many RGB colors will have a hard time going to CMYK. In these cases you have a couple of options.
a. Use soft-proofing, gamut warning and adjustment layers to get the file looking as good as you can in the soft-proof before converting.
b. Convert several times using different profiles and/or different rendering intents. For example, going straight from ProPhoto to CMYK can produce huge color shifts, especially in saturated blues and greens for which there are no direct CMYK equivalents. Convert the ProPhoto file to ColorMatch first, then to CMYK. During each conversion, try both relative and perceptual rendering intents and preview the results to find what's working.
4. Finally, you might want to use Hue & Saturation and Curves adjustments on the final CMYK file after conversion, to fine tune any of the colors and/or tone ranges that were affected by the conversion.
I hope to get a video done about this in the coming weeks; I'll let you know....
Discussion
12 repliesAh, the dilemma. I'll give it a go, Erik. You know my e-mail address, or you can call to discuss it.
Converting to CMYK has long been a dark art. Generating a black plate, from three color channels?? Maybe a topic for a video tutorial... I'd like to do it.
I'm sure Todd -- and Grant -- and I take it somewhat for Granted, Grant probably the most. Or least. Hmm.
I ordered nine sets of press printed cards during their winter sale on watercolor paper and I'm really happy with them. Are you trying someone else?
Kalin, I'm still using WHCC for my cards, just not for this order. This client wanted 150 so I ended up using PSPrint.com as they do small order offset printing.
I sure appreciate everyone's help!
Erik
For what it's worth, I've been amazed on the WHCC's ability to produce CMYK products from RGB files with their Indigo presses. The conversion is automated in the press - and I don't know if it's luck or if they have it dialed in - but I have better luck NOT adjusting my files manually for the conversion (their CMYK products work best with sRGB submission). The worst color shift I've seen is hardly worth mentioning. Doesn't sound right, but it works. Their pearl coated cards are the finest short-run product I've ever seen - even better than offset cards (although it's hard to beat PsPrint prices). Anyway, just an FYI for those who don't really want to deal with CMYK for photographic products.
I only feel like I've really gotten CMYK printing down in the last year. I've started using luminosity painting (from Tony Kuyper's tutorial) to lighten up the dark areas while also increasing contrast. The dark parts of the image are always the ones that give me trouble in CMYK, as too much ink on the paper gives a muddy-looking effect. Just using luminosity masks to lighten the dark areas also decreases the contrast and can make the image look flat. And I just never quite got what I wanted using Curves alone. You could probably get good results with local adjustments in Lightroom but I'm not comfortable working w/out soft-proofing.
In Photoshop, go under Edit > Convert to Profile. In that dialog box, select the CMYK profile you're going to use and click OK. Viola; CMYK file!
Here are the potential gotchas:
1. If the printer can provide a custom CMYK profile, use it! More and more high-end/high-quality printshops are profiling their presses. This will produce the best possible results.
2. If the printer does not provide a profile, you at least need to know if it's a web or sheetfed press. Then you can use the appropriate built-in Photoshop profile for that condition.
3. Many RGB colors will have a hard time going to CMYK. In these cases you have a couple of options.
a. Use soft-proofing, gamut warning and adjustment layers to get the file looking as good as you can in the soft-proof before converting.
b. Convert several times using different profiles and/or different rendering intents. For example, going straight from ProPhoto to CMYK can produce huge color shifts, especially in saturated blues and greens for which there are no direct CMYK equivalents. Convert the ProPhoto file to ColorMatch first, then to CMYK. During each conversion, try both relative and perceptual rendering intents and preview the results to find what's working.
4. Finally, you might want to use Hue & Saturation and Curves adjustments on the final CMYK file after conversion, to fine tune any of the colors and/or tone ranges that were affected by the conversion.
I hope to get a video done about this in the coming weeks; I'll let you know....