For those who don't read the Cloudland Journal, I wanted to post this info here. The original estimate of $20,000 for the work has now grown to $75,000! Anything you could give would be most appreciated...
BOXLEY BAPTIST CHURCH (community building) needs your help. This is the icon of Boxley Valley that so many of you enjoy seeing and taking photos of, and it is in need of repair/restoration. Here is a note from the church folks - I hope you will be able to help them:
Boxley Community building is in need of some major repair caused by old age and community use. Built around 1900 it is one of the most visited and photographed buildings in the Buffalo National Park and in the state of Arkansas.
For that reason we at the Boxley community are asking for assistance in repairing and preserving this remarkable landmark.
The building belongs to the Boxley Baptist Church. In addition to the funds being donated by the church, we are in need of additional assistance in some needed repairs and restoration. In order to keep this old former school, church and community meeting place in shape for future generations, we must do some work on it now.
Your help with our restoration project will be much appreciated. Thank you!
A fund has been established at all the First National Banks of Green Forest branches under Boxley Baptist Church Construction Account or contributions can be made to Boxley Baptist Church and marked for restoration of Community building. The mailing address it: HC 70 Box 13, Ponca AR. 72670.
For additional information e-mail or call:
Bill Cochrane 870-861-5835 (e-mail - clsur@windstream.net)
I posted this on a blog a while back too. I know that I have photographed it many times. In fact my most popular and best selling image (by far) is of that great church. It has sure been good to me and I'm going to try and do my part to give back to it.
I hope they meet the goals and are able to do the much needed work.
Thanks for keeping the work out there Tim... It will be in my next e-newsletter as well.
Thanks Tim,
It was one of your great images of this old chuch that made me say to myself, "youve got to go up there and photograph" Ive been twice now and have loved every minute of it. I will send my donation for sure.
Joe Rogers
Vernon, Tx
Here's a thought. Maybe there would be enough of us willing to donate a few prints so that they could hold a silent auction to benefit the church. Maybe on a weekend in April at the church grounds or elk center when more folks start visiting the area?
That is a good idea. I actually e-mailed them a few weeks ago and offered to do that, but haven't heard back. If we had several prints, that would be much better.
Glenn, maybe you could email them again if there is more interest from the folks here. I could donate 4 or 5 16x20 prints. Anyone else want to jump in? Keep us posted if you hear anything in the next few days.
I would be happy to donate some prints. I could possibly donate some time to help with the physical part of the repairs as long as the dates worked out.
A couple of thoughts on the print idea. I think it is a great idea, but you must look at the reality of it all and consider the entire process. I'm not trying to nix the idea, just want folks to understand what might be involved with something like this before you start sending tubes of prints.
You can't just give them a bare print - you would need to get it mounted, matted, and framed, then delivered to the church. Consider all of those costs to you, plus the cost of the print - that adds up. (canvas would be cheaper of course, but much more expensive to print and stretch) Add to that the cost of the sales tax that you must pay the state when you donate an item - this is calculated on the full retail value of the print, no matter if it sells or not (and if you don't pay it right away, then you are charged penalty and interest until you do pay). And you can't deduct anything other than the actual cost to you for the print, which you would normally have already deducted if you are in business (you can't deduct anything twice). In other words, if you buy a roll of paper and ink for your printer, these would normally be expense items and deducted during the normal course of business. If you make a print and donate it to a charity, you can't deduct another cent since you already have deducted the expense of the materials. Same deal goes for a non-pro - you can only deduct what you actually paid for the print and framing, not the retail value of the piece. And "deduct" only means that you don't have to pay income tax on this amount - it does not cover your cost at all.
This would have to be a large fund-raising event with a lot of publicity that would attract hundreds of people. Someone would have to plan, organize, and host this event, clean up afterward - then raise money to support it all. What would happen to all of the unsold prints? Just sticking up a few prints in the corner of the church or elk center would not produce much income. You need probably 100 or more people for each print sold, maybe more. Doing something like this online might be cheaper, but your traffic would need to be at least ten fold to sell a print.
I suspect something like this would need to be a major undertaking before it produced any real money for the church, and as part of an overall large fund-raising event the prints would certainly be a nice addition, or perhaps even the main attraction. They are talking about needing an additional 50 grand, and probably a lot more by the time it is all over. Certainly every bit helps. But perhaps right now it might actually produce more income if folks simply sent a check for the amount they might spend to produce the finished prints, including all the framing, shipping, and taxes? Just something to think about.
These basics are true for any charity event that you want to contribute to - they can't use bare prints, and the cost to you is really a lot more than you might think up front. Not a good idea to burden the charity with bare prints - those just produce more work and expenses for them. Anything that you contribute must be ready to display and sell.
There is no doubt that this kind of thing would take a considerable amount of effort to pull off. I just thought I would throw the idea out there to see if there was any interest. My thoughts are that the weekend traffic would probably be best at the elk center, and I think the Game and Fish folks would probably be receptive to a fund-raiser such as this. And rather than a silent auction, it might be best to set a minimum donation price to cover whatever expense the photographer has in the work. I have a pretty decent 10'x10' Flourish outdoor canopy that I use for art shows that I could set up next to the center. Others could be rented if needed and the interest was great enough. Of course the weather is always a factor, but the event could be cancelled if the weather is bad. As far as publicity, a few yard sale-type signs strategically located at highway intersections would be good, but the best advertising would probably be a banner type note on the Cloudland Journal.
I agree that rolled prints would not be a very big hit. But with the current economy, I don't think matted and framed prints, or stretched canvas would bring what most of us think they should bring, but I could be entirely wrong on this. Just depends on who drops by.
One way I've found to display prints by themselves is to mount them on a slightly oversized piece of foamcore using archival plastic corners, and slip them into a clear plastic bag that fits the foamcore snugly (www.clearbags.com.) It really looks very clean and professional. Place them in a print bin, and they're good to go. I agree that there should also be some framed work, along with a few canvas prints for those that are willing to donate a little more, and don't want to hassle with having a print framed. Whatever artwork of mine doesn't sell can go right back to my basement until the next art show.
I think we could get around having to pay sales tax on what was donated if the prints were just donated to the church. However, a member of the church would have to be there to sell the goods. Here are the rules:
GR-39. EXEMPTIONS FROM TAX – CHARITIES AND CHURCHES:
A. The gross receipts or gross proceeds derived from the sale of tangible personal
property or services by churches or charitable organizations are exempt from the tax
except where such organizations may be engaged in business for profit.
Additionally, sales made by charitable organizations that sell new tangible personal
property and their sales compete with sales made by for-profit businesses are not
exempt. (See GR-39(C).)
B. The gross receipts or gross proceeds derived from sales of tangible personal
property or services to churches or charitable organizations are not exempt from tax
unless the items purchased are for resale by the church or charitable organization.
In order to claim the sale-for-resale exemption, a church or charitable organization
must have either a resale certificate or a letter opinion issued by DFA certifying that
it is a church or charitable organization and that it intends to resell the items
purchased.
C. WHEN SALES BY CHARITABLE ORGANIZATIONS ARE NOT EXEMPT:
84
1. The exemption for charitable organizations shall not extend to sales of new
tangible personal property by the organization if the sale competes with sales by
for-profit businesses.
2. A sale by a charitable organization does not compete with a sale by a for-profit
organization if:
a. The sales transaction is conducted by members of the charitable organization
and not by any franchisee or licensee;
b. All of the proceeds derived from the transaction go to the charitable
organization;
c. The transaction is not a continuing one and is held not more than three (3)
times a year; and
d. The dominant motive of the majority of purchasers of the items sold is the
making of a charitable contribution, with the purchase of the item being
merely incidental and secondary to the dominant purpose of making a gift to
the charity.
3. The limitations of this section do not apply to sales made by a nonprofit hospital,
a cafeteria at a nonprofit hospital, or a gift shop at a nonprofit hospital, whether
operated by the hospital, a hospital auxiliary, or other nonprofit organization; or
to sales by gift shops operated by charitable organizations at for-profit hospitals.
4. The following activities shall not be deemed to compete with sales by for-profit
organizations:
a. Sales of tangible personal property by charitable organizations at county
fairs;
b. Sales at concession stands operated by a non-profit little league or soccer
association or other similar athletic association;
5. The sale of fireworks by a non-profit charitable organization shall be deemed to
compete with for-profit organizations.
D. DEFINITIONS.
1. See GR-37(E)(6) for definition of charitable organization.
2. The phrase “engaged in business for profit” means that the income or receipts of
the church or charitable organization inures to the benefit of an individual,
corporation organized for profit, trust organized for profit or partnership
organized for profit. A charitable organization or church that has obtained a
ruling from the United States Internal Revenue Service or Arkansas Department
of Finance and Administration, Income Tax Section, which certifies the
organization for income tax purposes is presumed to be a non-profit
organization.
Source: Ark. Code Ann. §§ 26-52-401; 26-52-430
Hey Bill, thanks for your notes. The sales taxes must be paid by the business who donates the goods, not on the actual sale - and this tax must be paid on the full retail value of the goods. Have you been audited yet by finance and administration? If not they will get you if you ever donated anything to a charity - tax plus penalty and interest. Arkansas is very weird that way - don't know of any other state that punishes folks for donating like this (only applies to a business, not to an individual).
Is there some reason we couldn't donate as individuals? Seems like the donated material could be listed as "items withdrawn for personal use" when accounting for inventory on a tax return.
I would probably mat and frame anything I brought, I have a couple clients that own frame shops here in town and could possibly get a break from them.
Some tax laws are so weird. Here in Arkansas I have to charge sales tax for my labor on stuff like trimming shrubs and cleaning gutters but not on stuff like mowing grass and picking up leaves. I have to be real careful because sometimes my labor comes with a sales tax. I have a lot of receipt books that just say "leaf removal".
Yup, there are ways to get around tax laws but sometimes you get caught too. Another weird law for Arkansas - used to be a body had to be in a coffin before being cremated - that may still be the case. I'm sure the funeral home lobby paid off a bunch of folks in Little Rock to get that one on the books!
If you guys come up with a plan for an event I'll be happy to advertise it in the Journal...
Thanks for the offer to advertise the event, Tim. I'm sure that would draw in a lot of folks.
After giving this a little more thought, it does seem that it would be difficult to avoid acting in a business capacity at this kind of event. Technically, there could be no mention that I have other work for sale, or business cards advertising my website. Those kinds of things just don't seem to follow the spirit of the tax laws. And even though I haven't been audited, I've heard enough horror stories from other photographers that I've always tried to stay on the up and up with Uncle Sam and the state. I think I'll just send the church a check and call it good...
Thanks for the Arkansas Sales Tax and Undertakers 101 short courses!
I am from Jones, OK and I have been Boxley serveral times and have taken photos of that church. It reminds me of New England and that part of this great countryt. I can not believe some of those tax laws you have in AR. It sure does not seem to be very businees friendly. I was thinking about donating a few prints but those laws are had to understand.
Again, I'm not trying to nix this great idea, just want folks to know that there may be other upfront costs for you, plus the event and sale may not be as easy as just sending in a bunch of prints - this thing has to be setup and organized on the other end by someone who will be spending a great deal of time and money to make it happen. In other words, it is probably not a good idea to send a bunch of prints to Boxley right now without a plan in place. Sending in money now would be good though!
FYI for anyone who might want to donate a matted/framed/canvas print, they are having an old-fashioned pie supper and silent auction for the old church, at the new church (next door), on Saturday, March 20th, from 5-8pm. You could both donate something and also attend the event and buy something - plus get to eat some homemade pies! It is a win-win for everyone...
Discussion
18 repliesBOXLEY BAPTIST CHURCH (community building) needs your help. This is the icon of Boxley Valley that so many of you enjoy seeing and taking photos of, and it is in need of repair/restoration. Here is a note from the church folks - I hope you will be able to help them:
Boxley Community building is in need of some major repair caused by old age and community use. Built around 1900 it is one of the most visited and photographed buildings in the Buffalo National Park and in the state of Arkansas.
For that reason we at the Boxley community are asking for assistance in repairing and preserving this remarkable landmark.
The building belongs to the Boxley Baptist Church. In addition to the funds being donated by the church, we are in need of additional assistance in some needed repairs and restoration. In order to keep this old former school, church and community meeting place in shape for future generations, we must do some work on it now.
Your help with our restoration project will be much appreciated. Thank you!
A fund has been established at all the First National Banks of Green Forest branches under Boxley Baptist Church Construction Account or contributions can be made to Boxley Baptist Church and marked for restoration of Community building. The mailing address it: HC 70 Box 13, Ponca AR. 72670.
For additional information e-mail or call:
Bill Cochrane 870-861-5835 (e-mail - clsur@windstream.net)
I hope they meet the goals and are able to do the much needed work.
Thanks for keeping the work out there Tim... It will be in my next e-newsletter as well.
Glenn Wheeler
It was one of your great images of this old chuch that made me say to myself, "youve got to go up there and photograph" Ive been twice now and have loved every minute of it. I will send my donation for sure.
Joe Rogers
Vernon, Tx
That is a good idea. I actually e-mailed them a few weeks ago and offered to do that, but haven't heard back. If we had several prints, that would be much better.
Glenn
You can't just give them a bare print - you would need to get it mounted, matted, and framed, then delivered to the church. Consider all of those costs to you, plus the cost of the print - that adds up. (canvas would be cheaper of course, but much more expensive to print and stretch) Add to that the cost of the sales tax that you must pay the state when you donate an item - this is calculated on the full retail value of the print, no matter if it sells or not (and if you don't pay it right away, then you are charged penalty and interest until you do pay). And you can't deduct anything other than the actual cost to you for the print, which you would normally have already deducted if you are in business (you can't deduct anything twice). In other words, if you buy a roll of paper and ink for your printer, these would normally be expense items and deducted during the normal course of business. If you make a print and donate it to a charity, you can't deduct another cent since you already have deducted the expense of the materials. Same deal goes for a non-pro - you can only deduct what you actually paid for the print and framing, not the retail value of the piece. And "deduct" only means that you don't have to pay income tax on this amount - it does not cover your cost at all.
This would have to be a large fund-raising event with a lot of publicity that would attract hundreds of people. Someone would have to plan, organize, and host this event, clean up afterward - then raise money to support it all. What would happen to all of the unsold prints? Just sticking up a few prints in the corner of the church or elk center would not produce much income. You need probably 100 or more people for each print sold, maybe more. Doing something like this online might be cheaper, but your traffic would need to be at least ten fold to sell a print.
I suspect something like this would need to be a major undertaking before it produced any real money for the church, and as part of an overall large fund-raising event the prints would certainly be a nice addition, or perhaps even the main attraction. They are talking about needing an additional 50 grand, and probably a lot more by the time it is all over. Certainly every bit helps. But perhaps right now it might actually produce more income if folks simply sent a check for the amount they might spend to produce the finished prints, including all the framing, shipping, and taxes? Just something to think about.
These basics are true for any charity event that you want to contribute to - they can't use bare prints, and the cost to you is really a lot more than you might think up front. Not a good idea to burden the charity with bare prints - those just produce more work and expenses for them. Anything that you contribute must be ready to display and sell.
I agree that rolled prints would not be a very big hit. But with the current economy, I don't think matted and framed prints, or stretched canvas would bring what most of us think they should bring, but I could be entirely wrong on this. Just depends on who drops by.
One way I've found to display prints by themselves is to mount them on a slightly oversized piece of foamcore using archival plastic corners, and slip them into a clear plastic bag that fits the foamcore snugly (www.clearbags.com.) It really looks very clean and professional. Place them in a print bin, and they're good to go. I agree that there should also be some framed work, along with a few canvas prints for those that are willing to donate a little more, and don't want to hassle with having a print framed. Whatever artwork of mine doesn't sell can go right back to my basement until the next art show.
I think we could get around having to pay sales tax on what was donated if the prints were just donated to the church. However, a member of the church would have to be there to sell the goods. Here are the rules:
GR-39. EXEMPTIONS FROM TAX – CHARITIES AND CHURCHES:
A. The gross receipts or gross proceeds derived from the sale of tangible personal
property or services by churches or charitable organizations are exempt from the tax
except where such organizations may be engaged in business for profit.
Additionally, sales made by charitable organizations that sell new tangible personal
property and their sales compete with sales made by for-profit businesses are not
exempt. (See GR-39(C).)
B. The gross receipts or gross proceeds derived from sales of tangible personal
property or services to churches or charitable organizations are not exempt from tax
unless the items purchased are for resale by the church or charitable organization.
In order to claim the sale-for-resale exemption, a church or charitable organization
must have either a resale certificate or a letter opinion issued by DFA certifying that
it is a church or charitable organization and that it intends to resell the items
purchased.
C. WHEN SALES BY CHARITABLE ORGANIZATIONS ARE NOT EXEMPT:
84
1. The exemption for charitable organizations shall not extend to sales of new
tangible personal property by the organization if the sale competes with sales by
for-profit businesses.
2. A sale by a charitable organization does not compete with a sale by a for-profit
organization if:
a. The sales transaction is conducted by members of the charitable organization
and not by any franchisee or licensee;
b. All of the proceeds derived from the transaction go to the charitable
organization;
c. The transaction is not a continuing one and is held not more than three (3)
times a year; and
d. The dominant motive of the majority of purchasers of the items sold is the
making of a charitable contribution, with the purchase of the item being
merely incidental and secondary to the dominant purpose of making a gift to
the charity.
3. The limitations of this section do not apply to sales made by a nonprofit hospital,
a cafeteria at a nonprofit hospital, or a gift shop at a nonprofit hospital, whether
operated by the hospital, a hospital auxiliary, or other nonprofit organization; or
to sales by gift shops operated by charitable organizations at for-profit hospitals.
4. The following activities shall not be deemed to compete with sales by for-profit
organizations:
a. Sales of tangible personal property by charitable organizations at county
fairs;
b. Sales at concession stands operated by a non-profit little league or soccer
association or other similar athletic association;
5. The sale of fireworks by a non-profit charitable organization shall be deemed to
compete with for-profit organizations.
D. DEFINITIONS.
1. See GR-37(E)(6) for definition of charitable organization.
2. The phrase “engaged in business for profit” means that the income or receipts of
the church or charitable organization inures to the benefit of an individual,
corporation organized for profit, trust organized for profit or partnership
organized for profit. A charitable organization or church that has obtained a
ruling from the United States Internal Revenue Service or Arkansas Department
of Finance and Administration, Income Tax Section, which certifies the
organization for income tax purposes is presumed to be a non-profit
organization.
Source: Ark. Code Ann. §§ 26-52-401; 26-52-430
Some tax laws are so weird. Here in Arkansas I have to charge sales tax for my labor on stuff like trimming shrubs and cleaning gutters but not on stuff like mowing grass and picking up leaves. I have to be real careful because sometimes my labor comes with a sales tax. I have a lot of receipt books that just say "leaf removal".
If you guys come up with a plan for an event I'll be happy to advertise it in the Journal...
After giving this a little more thought, it does seem that it would be difficult to avoid acting in a business capacity at this kind of event. Technically, there could be no mention that I have other work for sale, or business cards advertising my website. Those kinds of things just don't seem to follow the spirit of the tax laws. And even though I haven't been audited, I've heard enough horror stories from other photographers that I've always tried to stay on the up and up with Uncle Sam and the state. I think I'll just send the church a check and call it good...
Thanks for the Arkansas Sales Tax and Undertakers 101 short courses!
Wayne Phillips