The photo team of Kevin McNeal, Chip Phillips, Zack Schnepf, Adrian Klein, Sean Bagshaw, and David Cobb are brought together to create Photo Cascadia.
The Photo Cascadia Team explores areas of natural beauty and advances the photographic excellence of outdoor photography, while promoting and sharing images, knowledge, and expertise with photo enthusiasts.
Posted by Scott Smorra on March 3, 2010 at 10:43 AM
Great website. I really like the design and the photos in the galleries are awesome. I'm looking forward to seeing more from the Photo Cascadia Team.
Posted by Sean Bagshaw on March 3, 2010 at 8:40 PM
Hi Jesse - I have to say I'm surprised by your response. I'll try to answer as best I can.
Access to the Photo Cascadia blog is completely free. All six of us will be regularly sharing thoughts, techniques, locations and stories as well as promoting wildlife and wilderness conservation. In addition we have included a contact form which we hope will be useful for visitors to the site to send us questions and comments. I can't speak for everyone on the team, but I love sharing my passion for photography. In the past 7 years I have answered every email about photography I have recieved, mentored high school students and also spent time sharing what I can with school groups, college classes, aspiring photographers, conservation groups and charity organizations and haven't charged a thing. One of the main missions of Photo Cascadia is to share, inspire and educate in this spirit.
That said, all of the members of Photo Cascadia make all or some prortion of their income through photography. We sell fine art prints, license stock images, write for magazines, lead workshops and teach classes which are all quite normal pursuits in the photography profession. We hope that many people take advantage of the free information we share through Photo Cascadia and if there is a need or a want for our professional services, those are available as well.
I guess I'm a little confused by your comment. Have you had issues with scams that try to make money off of photo enthusiasts or do you have a problem with photography as a profession in general?
It seems npn has produced many joint ventures amongst its members. The site has seemed to show the capability and expertise of the many talented photographers in here. So congrats to npn for that. And for the people who are making a living doing this, gotta be tough, so the free advice i have been given by the many people in here, such as Sean, and Mike Dawson and Marc Adamus and Mark Hudon... and others, is very appreciated. Along with the free instruction series npn has with the likes of Darwin Wigget (sp) Guy Tai....and others...is tops in my book. I learn daily, and forgive me if i take a look into your sites and gather what i can from them without even a hello or thank you. Its easy now a days to just click and read and click and get out, kinna like a lurker gathering what he can and scurring away like a thief in the night, you know what i mean. So i have now repented and feel better. With that said, thanks again everyone! And for Mark Hudon.....hows public opinion coming along over selling your tripod? One day we will meet and you will get even i am sure!
Posted by Adrian Klein on March 3, 2010 at 10:53 PM
I am not sure what to say Jesse. As already stated I am bewildered by your response. I guess my first question is in regards to your comment about workshops being scams. Maybe you are self taught but that does not mean every one is or wants to be. I am someone that is a mix of both and has found value in attending workshops, not just teaching them.
I have also found there are many reasons why photographers take workshops from wanting to expand their knowledge to using this as their reason for getting out photographing to being out with like minds in new areas. I also know that if the workshops were not of value we would not have repeat clients and referrals. I truly like teaching and watching others grow and learn. In fact some clients have gone on to license images, sell prints or get work published with images taken during a workshop. I love hearing this from clients. That would seem that they are getting a return on their investment beyond even their original intentions. I provide a number of things without any strings attached including my podcasts which takes time for me to do. I do it because I like it and people have told me they find value in what I provide.
Also as already mentioned all of us in this group do make a portion or all of our living income from photography. Sean commented on this piece well enough I won’t go in to details again. Photo Cascadia has a number of intentions and one of them is to disseminate free information to photographers or whomever has an interest. I hope this helps provide some clarity for you and anyone else reading this thread.
Jesse, I guess another question that comes to mind is, have you ever been to a workshop? Did you actually get scammed or just have a bad experience. If you did actually get scammed, you should share the workshop information so others know to avoid it or at least be wary.
Knowing several of the guys on NPN who do workshops, a couple of them personally, there isn't one bit of scam. They generally get very little if any photography of their own done during the workshops because they are working with people to help improve their craft.
I know where you're coming from, as I'm self taught, but I would have loved to have had the opportunity to attend more formal classes and workshops had time and budget allowed when I was younger.
Looking to the future, I hope to conduct or help conduct workshops because I love teaching. I've been across Oregon and Washington teaching classes in my industry, and I'd love to do the same with photography someday. Perhaps in 5 to 10 years my craft and circumstances will allow that.
Anyway, I'm sorry I'm rambled, it just seemed like your comment painted with a very broad brush.
And again, if you did get scammed, I'd like to know what happened so I don't run into the same situation if I decide to pay for a workshop someday.
Posted by John Williams on March 3, 2010 at 11:29 PM
Congrats guys! I just browsed the website and it is very nice. I enjoyed the blog, especially Chips article on the Palouse. My daughters are both at college in Walla Walla, and one of these times I visit them I'm going to head north to check it out.
Posted by Jack Graham on March 4, 2010 at 12:26 AM
Folks....
First of all good luck guys..I'll get the word out!... Having met David & Sean for the 1st time at NANPA, I can attest to the fact that not only are these 2 fellows great people ( we talked a lot about thoughts other than photography!) but their work and passion is 2nd to none. Maybe passion should have come before the word work.
As one who makes a living teaching workshops,( for over 14 years now) in both group settings and individually, I can truly say that weather a beginner takes a workshop from me or anyone else, if you get the right teacher its money well spent. The many photo "tours" can be a waste an good "workshop" can provide lots that books and individual practice can't.
Sometime the big buck , big name guys don't deliver the value for the $ but I can name numerous other workshop instructors who deliver a tremendous bang for the buck.
I work very hard, deliver a good product and am gone aver 135-140 nights a year teaching and I love it. Having spent may years in corporate America, believe me I am one lucky guy.
I can also say that anyone that's successful in this business didn't get up one morning and decide to teach workshops. It's not as easy as you think. Most of us, when not gone spend countless hours in our offices marketing, answering emails,dealing with the required permits, insurances etc. Like any other business it often isn't what it seems.
There are certainly those who take great photos, like Jesse that are self taught and that's great. However for the vast portion of beginners who just go their first digital camera, or even folks who think they know everything, attending a workshop can be a valuable and rewarding experience. I have actually many times recommended to some of my customers other instructors to get other points of view.
What's really interesting, is that ( those who read this that teach workshops will agree) I learn something every time out. What turns me on is to see how folks I've had on workshops improve, not just because of me but by working at the craft, maybe taking other workshops and seminars etc.
Don't knock Photo Cascadia. Anything that puts nature photography in the spotlight, aids in our continued education and inspiration is much needed. After all, us nature photogtraphers are at times viewed as the Rodney Dangerfield's of the art world.
Just my $0.02.
JG
Posted by Zack Schnepf on March 4, 2010 at 1:07 AM
Jesse, I'm having a really hard time figuring out why you're reacting the way you are. You seem like you have a chip on your shoulder about something, not sure why you're taking it out on us. This is a fun project for us, the site, and blog are all completely free. If someone is inspired by our work and wants to take a workshop from us, or buy a print of our work we are happy to oblige.
I've benefitted immensely from all the experience on this site and others, people like Guy Tal, Tony K, Marc Adamus and many others are very generous to write articles and share their experience. I have learned so much from these and many other photographers who share their techniques and knowledge, I would not be the photographer I am today without them. We are trying to do something similar and share our collective knowledge and experience.
I've been a photoshop teacher for 10 years, way before I was a photographer. I've never had anyone accuse me of scamming them for teaching them photoshop. In fact, most people are overjoyed to finally understand a program that is very difficult to learn for most people, and think it's a very fair trade for the money they paid me to teach them. If all this stuff is just a breeze for you, and you just understand it all without ever reading an article, blog, or having someone teach you anything, then you are a tiny minority. I don't think even you can say you haven't learned a great deal from another photographer, or their work. For most people workshops are the easiest and most convenient way to learn photography. Not everyone has the time to sift through the internet, or books to learn photography. Many of the people that take my workshops want to cut to the chase, they would rather pay a fair price to have someone like me share my knowledge to save them the time and effort of having to teach themselves.
Late to the party, as usual, CONGRATS & GOOD LUCK!
I have to say, though, the BEST of the NW? Now the gauntlet is thrown down I think NPN is pretty darn good, too.
All jokes aside, good luck!
Kevin
Posted by Sean Bagshaw on March 4, 2010 at 10:51 AM
All good Jesse. I value your position and your input. But I guess we shouldn't hold a spot open for you at any of our workshops.
Thanks everyone for the input and discussion. Who knew a simple website launch announcement would garner some valuable conversation?
If photo enthusiasts find any of the information we provide on the Photo Cascadia blog useful we would be very happy. There is obviously no lack of places to get good information about photography, NPN being one of the very best. Photo Cascadia will allow us to share our own more specific range of knowledge and experience. If Photo Cascadia doesn't provide anything useful, the internet is a big place and folks are welcome to go where they find value.
If people are willing to pay and feel like they are getting something out of it, I suppose that's all that counts huh?
Exactly right; that's why I love living in a democracy. Folks are welcome to pay to go on photo tours or to choose to go out on their own as they see fit.
Good luck guys! I hope the site finds you some good revenue. I've offered a lot of free advice and mentored people over the years, but now I'm a little more selfish with my time and spend that extra time in the outdoors or selling my own work. Kudos to your new group for providing your time and passion so freely. I am curious, do you model yourselves after timecatchers a little? Do you feel you will get more exposure and inadvertently more clients for workshops? Either way, I wish you the best of luck!
ps. I really like the look and feel of the website. You did a great job on it!
Posted by Sean Bagshaw on March 4, 2010 at 3:03 PM
Thanks Rick! Photo Cascadia was Adrian's brainstorm and Time Catchers and Mountain Trail were models he/we looked to, but we are still in the work in progress phase so time will only tell what we become. One driving idea was that as a formalized group we might raise the level of our own work and at the same time have more to share with others...kind of a "the sum is greater than the parts" effect. Another motivating factor was that while other photographer teams cover different geographical regions or different genres of photography, we weren't aware of a group that was specializing in Pacific Northwest outdoor photography the way we felt we could.
Posted by Laurie Wendt on March 9, 2010 at 7:38 PM
PNW outsider here giving my 2 cents, so take it for what it's worth.
Some group workshops seem a bit overpriced to me but that's probably because I don't think I'd benefit enough to justify the cost. I've run into a few during my travels and from what I've seen don't interest me much.
However, having said that I'm much more interested in private photo guiding. I can only hope that 1 of the guys from the Photo Cascadia Team is available to show me around Olympic NP when I visit this year or next year!
Great Website and Best of Luck with your new venture!
Posted by Sean Bagshaw on March 11, 2010 at 2:13 PM
Hi Laurie,
Thanks for your comments. I agree that everyone has different needs and goals when it comes to accessing photography locations and instruction. For some, the social and sharing aspects of group workshops really works for them. Also, group workshops are sometimes financially more in reach than private. Several of the members of the Photo Cascadia team are very familiar with Olympic National Park and some of us offer private photo guide service. Let us know when you are coming out west!
Congrats to the folks behind Photo Cascadia!!! A super well put together website of awesome imagery!! I'm blown away by this body of work folks!! Humbled actually... WELL DONE!!
Jesse I understand your position about workshops. I too have seen some less than perfect workshops out there. Including a death march up the slopes of Mt Rainier last year... That group was haulin butt to keep up with their workshop leader while my hiking companion and I got some amazing shots as they high tailed it past us.... Several folks even bailed part way up the trail to Skyline... Oh well.
What I have found to be immensely valuable is going out shooting with other like minded nature photographers from this forum. This typically sets aside any presumptions of leader/follower (and fees) and instead offers up a "live forum" out in the field for mind share and general friendship building.
I recently organized a local PNWNP Seattle area shoot on the Middle Fork of the Snoqualmie River that was quite enjoyable! And the price for participation was um FREE. We all had a great time and got to meet some new faces. Some of my best fotog friends I have met on similar ventures.
We're now talking about making our next trip to the Weyerhaeuser Rhododendron Garden. Word up is this is a sweet hidden jewel of a place to shoot... more on this in the coming days folks!
Posted by David Cobb on March 13, 2010 at 10:41 AM
Thanks Rick!
Those Weyerhaeuser Rhododendron Gardens are spectacular, especially the bonsai collection they have.
Hi folks,
I guess I'll chime in here too.
Congrats on a great web site. I hope it reaps many rewards for all of you.It looks good and your list of workshops look enticing.
That said, I can understand Jesse's point of view, not to take away from what you guys are doing but to talk value.
I took a couple pricey classes when I first started out. Rick and I thought it would be better for me to learn some basics in a classroom. Turned out the instructor was a jerk. He focused on one cute 20 something blond. His disrespect towards all other students nearly caused me to sell my gear. I left in tears a couple times. Rick kept encouraging me to return. That is, until we signed up together for a lighting class. Rick was so pissed off that he walked out. Same instructor was an ass to Rick.
I am most grateful to the wonderful encouragement and free help or advice from members of NPN and PNWNP. I give credit where credit is due: David Bostock, Jim Leigh, Jim Tommisor, Simon Allenby, Guy Tal, Elizabeth Kime and a number of old timers were here to encourage, support, educate and lead. I stuck it out and improved vastly. That was then and this is a whole new era.
As we've all grown, it's enticing to start charging for sharing what we know. That makes it 'teaching' more than sharing. Semantics can make a difference in perspective. But if it's worth it to me, I'll pay for it.
Still, if I'm paying $400 - $500 for a workshop, and that person is ill prepared and doesn't have a plan, and doesn't fill the day with value, I end up resenting it.
I think you guys are off to a great start. I hope you'll keep your focus on meeting your students needs, and thus avoiding what is maybe the biggest pitfall. I once went to a yoga class, had an urgent question and the instructor was so full of himself that he wouldn't answer the question. :) Now you guys wouldn't dare do that. Would ya?
Discussion
24 repliesThe Photo Cascadia Team explores areas of natural beauty and advances the photographic excellence of outdoor photography, while promoting and sharing images, knowledge, and expertise with photo enthusiasts.
Good to see that talent and hard work still breeds success in this business.
Access to the Photo Cascadia blog is completely free. All six of us will be regularly sharing thoughts, techniques, locations and stories as well as promoting wildlife and wilderness conservation. In addition we have included a contact form which we hope will be useful for visitors to the site to send us questions and comments. I can't speak for everyone on the team, but I love sharing my passion for photography. In the past 7 years I have answered every email about photography I have recieved, mentored high school students and also spent time sharing what I can with school groups, college classes, aspiring photographers, conservation groups and charity organizations and haven't charged a thing. One of the main missions of Photo Cascadia is to share, inspire and educate in this spirit.
That said, all of the members of Photo Cascadia make all or some prortion of their income through photography. We sell fine art prints, license stock images, write for magazines, lead workshops and teach classes which are all quite normal pursuits in the photography profession. We hope that many people take advantage of the free information we share through Photo Cascadia and if there is a need or a want for our professional services, those are available as well.
I guess I'm a little confused by your comment. Have you had issues with scams that try to make money off of photo enthusiasts or do you have a problem with photography as a profession in general?
You said: "I'm self taught and I suppose I feel like workshops are scams in general."
I'm disappointed to hear that. Do you feel as if all instruction in the arts is a scam?
I have also found there are many reasons why photographers take workshops from wanting to expand their knowledge to using this as their reason for getting out photographing to being out with like minds in new areas. I also know that if the workshops were not of value we would not have repeat clients and referrals. I truly like teaching and watching others grow and learn. In fact some clients have gone on to license images, sell prints or get work published with images taken during a workshop. I love hearing this from clients. That would seem that they are getting a return on their investment beyond even their original intentions. I provide a number of things without any strings attached including my podcasts which takes time for me to do. I do it because I like it and people have told me they find value in what I provide.
Also as already mentioned all of us in this group do make a portion or all of our living income from photography. Sean commented on this piece well enough I won’t go in to details again. Photo Cascadia has a number of intentions and one of them is to disseminate free information to photographers or whomever has an interest. I hope this helps provide some clarity for you and anyone else reading this thread.
Knowing several of the guys on NPN who do workshops, a couple of them personally, there isn't one bit of scam. They generally get very little if any photography of their own done during the workshops because they are working with people to help improve their craft.
I know where you're coming from, as I'm self taught, but I would have loved to have had the opportunity to attend more formal classes and workshops had time and budget allowed when I was younger.
Looking to the future, I hope to conduct or help conduct workshops because I love teaching. I've been across Oregon and Washington teaching classes in my industry, and I'd love to do the same with photography someday. Perhaps in 5 to 10 years my craft and circumstances will allow that.
Anyway, I'm sorry I'm rambled, it just seemed like your comment painted with a very broad brush.
And again, if you did get scammed, I'd like to know what happened so I don't run into the same situation if I decide to pay for a workshop someday.
First of all good luck guys..I'll get the word out!... Having met David & Sean for the 1st time at NANPA, I can attest to the fact that not only are these 2 fellows great people ( we talked a lot about thoughts other than photography!) but their work and passion is 2nd to none. Maybe passion should have come before the word work.
As one who makes a living teaching workshops,( for over 14 years now) in both group settings and individually, I can truly say that weather a beginner takes a workshop from me or anyone else, if you get the right teacher its money well spent. The many photo "tours" can be a waste an good "workshop" can provide lots that books and individual practice can't.
Sometime the big buck , big name guys don't deliver the value for the $ but I can name numerous other workshop instructors who deliver a tremendous bang for the buck.
I work very hard, deliver a good product and am gone aver 135-140 nights a year teaching and I love it. Having spent may years in corporate America, believe me I am one lucky guy.
I can also say that anyone that's successful in this business didn't get up one morning and decide to teach workshops. It's not as easy as you think. Most of us, when not gone spend countless hours in our offices marketing, answering emails,dealing with the required permits, insurances etc. Like any other business it often isn't what it seems.
There are certainly those who take great photos, like Jesse that are self taught and that's great. However for the vast portion of beginners who just go their first digital camera, or even folks who think they know everything, attending a workshop can be a valuable and rewarding experience. I have actually many times recommended to some of my customers other instructors to get other points of view.
What's really interesting, is that ( those who read this that teach workshops will agree) I learn something every time out. What turns me on is to see how folks I've had on workshops improve, not just because of me but by working at the craft, maybe taking other workshops and seminars etc.
Don't knock Photo Cascadia. Anything that puts nature photography in the spotlight, aids in our continued education and inspiration is much needed. After all, us nature photogtraphers are at times viewed as the Rodney Dangerfield's of the art world.
Just my $0.02.
JG
I've benefitted immensely from all the experience on this site and others, people like Guy Tal, Tony K, Marc Adamus and many others are very generous to write articles and share their experience. I have learned so much from these and many other photographers who share their techniques and knowledge, I would not be the photographer I am today without them. We are trying to do something similar and share our collective knowledge and experience.
I've been a photoshop teacher for 10 years, way before I was a photographer. I've never had anyone accuse me of scamming them for teaching them photoshop. In fact, most people are overjoyed to finally understand a program that is very difficult to learn for most people, and think it's a very fair trade for the money they paid me to teach them. If all this stuff is just a breeze for you, and you just understand it all without ever reading an article, blog, or having someone teach you anything, then you are a tiny minority. I don't think even you can say you haven't learned a great deal from another photographer, or their work. For most people workshops are the easiest and most convenient way to learn photography. Not everyone has the time to sift through the internet, or books to learn photography. Many of the people that take my workshops want to cut to the chase, they would rather pay a fair price to have someone like me share my knowledge to save them the time and effort of having to teach themselves.
I have to say, though, the BEST of the NW? Now the gauntlet is thrown down
All jokes aside, good luck!
Kevin
Thanks everyone for the input and discussion. Who knew a simple website launch announcement would garner some valuable conversation?
If photo enthusiasts find any of the information we provide on the Photo Cascadia blog useful we would be very happy. There is obviously no lack of places to get good information about photography, NPN being one of the very best. Photo Cascadia will allow us to share our own more specific range of knowledge and experience. If Photo Cascadia doesn't provide anything useful, the internet is a big place and folks are welcome to go where they find value.
Exactly right; that's why I love living in a democracy. Folks are welcome to pay to go on photo tours or to choose to go out on their own as they see fit.
Best of luck to you all!
Some group workshops seem a bit overpriced to me but that's probably because I don't think I'd benefit enough to justify the cost. I've run into a few during my travels and from what I've seen don't interest me much.
However, having said that I'm much more interested in private photo guiding. I can only hope that 1 of the guys from the Photo Cascadia Team is available to show me around Olympic NP when I visit this year or next year!
Great Website and Best of Luck with your new venture!
Thanks for your comments. I agree that everyone has different needs and goals when it comes to accessing photography locations and instruction. For some, the social and sharing aspects of group workshops really works for them. Also, group workshops are sometimes financially more in reach than private. Several of the members of the Photo Cascadia team are very familiar with Olympic National Park and some of us offer private photo guide service. Let us know when you are coming out west!
Jesse I understand your position about workshops. I too have seen some less than perfect workshops out there. Including a death march up the slopes of Mt Rainier last year... That group was haulin butt to keep up with their workshop leader while my hiking companion and I got some amazing shots as they high tailed it past us.... Several folks even bailed part way up the trail to Skyline... Oh well.
What I have found to be immensely valuable is going out shooting with other like minded nature photographers from this forum. This typically sets aside any presumptions of leader/follower (and fees) and instead offers up a "live forum" out in the field for mind share and general friendship building.
I recently organized a local PNWNP Seattle area shoot on the Middle Fork of the Snoqualmie River that was quite enjoyable! And the price for participation was um FREE. We all had a great time and got to meet some new faces. Some of my best fotog friends I have met on similar ventures.
We're now talking about making our next trip to the Weyerhaeuser Rhododendron Garden. Word up is this is a sweet hidden jewel of a place to shoot... more on this in the coming days folks!
Those Weyerhaeuser Rhododendron Gardens are spectacular, especially the bonsai collection they have.
I guess I'll chime in here too.
Congrats on a great web site. I hope it reaps many rewards for all of you.It looks good and your list of workshops look enticing.
That said, I can understand Jesse's point of view, not to take away from what you guys are doing but to talk value.
I took a couple pricey classes when I first started out. Rick and I thought it would be better for me to learn some basics in a classroom. Turned out the instructor was a jerk. He focused on one cute 20 something blond. His disrespect towards all other students nearly caused me to sell my gear. I left in tears a couple times. Rick kept encouraging me to return. That is, until we signed up together for a lighting class. Rick was so pissed off that he walked out. Same instructor was an ass to Rick.
I am most grateful to the wonderful encouragement and free help or advice from members of NPN and PNWNP. I give credit where credit is due: David Bostock, Jim Leigh, Jim Tommisor, Simon Allenby, Guy Tal, Elizabeth Kime and a number of old timers were here to encourage, support, educate and lead. I stuck it out and improved vastly. That was then and this is a whole new era.
As we've all grown, it's enticing to start charging for sharing what we know. That makes it 'teaching' more than sharing. Semantics can make a difference in perspective. But if it's worth it to me, I'll pay for it.
Still, if I'm paying $400 - $500 for a workshop, and that person is ill prepared and doesn't have a plan, and doesn't fill the day with value, I end up resenting it.
I think you guys are off to a great start. I hope you'll keep your focus on meeting your students needs, and thus avoiding what is maybe the biggest pitfall. I once went to a yoga class, had an urgent question and the instructor was so full of himself that he wouldn't answer the question. :) Now you guys wouldn't dare do that. Would ya?
Like someone said: It's about freedom of choice.