A post has been made recently by a well respected member that the forum is becoming "predictable "
Not quite sure what he means but it may be something to do with birds on a stick stuff. I don't know. Perhaps he could explain in more detail. Come on Danny !
In response from a personal point of view - a lot of my stuff is predictable.
It has to be. I can't get around as well as I did and I can't afford to pay large amounts of money to be put in a hide, often on foreign shores. I suppose even if I could afford it I would not be happy doing it.
Its a shame that the blue riband stuff gets all the attention.
But then I suppose, thinking back - photograph a greenshank 40 years ago and you were one of the boys!!
Cheers
JohnR
Posted by David Taylor on March 7, 2010 at 5:47 PM
It can take a lot of skill to produce a fine image of a BOAS or a BBAP but I must admit when you see a hundred of them.... Predictability does seem to draw the comments, though. There is masses of stuff out there, even if you cannot get out as much. Most of my images are taken in my garden, because I provide the habitat for the species I would like to attract. I also try to use equipment and software not used by the majority of photographers, if at all possible, as I prefer to do my own thing. Each to his/her own.
Hey first Rene's post and now yours, its turning into lets get Danny week
First of all I would like to say that I wasn't refering to you or anybody in particular when I said the forum was becoming predictable, what I meant was at certain times of the year you could predict certain subjects/images/locations turning up on the forum. I even meant my own work was becoming predictable and so it was just something I wanted to address. One thing I will say and stick my head up is certain images for example what I call safe images get a lot of comments/feedback ( and I mean my own as well ) which is again what I meant as predictable. I have been down this road before on this forum and don't really want to go down it again but as you questioned it I felt I had to answer John. I would also say I that I don't have as much time as I used to and that my input into the forum is becoming less and less, something that Rene has just alerted to in his post, maybe this is something other members feel strongly about as well and would be good to hear your views.
Hi Danny
Not getting at you at all.
I just wondered what you meant. You have explained it and I agree entirely .
Its Deer ,Seals, Dragons, Polar Bears, Golden eagles , Butters ,BOAS, and Robins at Christmas. etc etc. Nothing wrong with that really I suppose. I like my Tits.
This forum should be about pictures -whatever full stop , and I mean full stop.
Stuff who you were with, or what a good trip you had etc,etc,,or whether Charlie fell over a
sheep in Holland, etc etcc,
The real crunch at the end of the day is -
What is every one doing with these pictures !!! - if they are not posting them on here ?
They certainly aint all selling 'em
Cheers
John
That's right John... not selling them. They just clog up hard drives. same as trannies and negs used to clog up cardboard boxes.
Seriously, stuff may be predictable to you, or others on here... but it isn't predictable to people who don't visit the forum. Most of the work shown on here is of a very very high standard... and while we may get used to seeing it and think it's de-rigeur... it isn't. I've had several examples of showing imagery to people in the last few weeks who haven't seen it before, and what I thought was commonplace has turned out to be anything but.
So, get out there, and get your shots seen folks. Just 'cause you think it's common or predictable on here, it doesn't mean the rest of the world does. This forum is only one small part of a very big world...
Valid comments, all. I think almost by definition there will be a certain predictability to forum postings - seasonal subjects etc as Danny has pointed out. Also, each forum that I've looked at has its own themes, for want of a better word. RMNP, for example, is heavily biased towards scenic landscapes rather than wildlife, exactly the opposite of UKNP. I guess it's all down to what people like to photograph ..........
It is also a fact of forum life that each will have a hard core of frequent contributors, those who effectively give the forum it's life and continuity. Many of these guys have got to know each other either "virtually" (via the forum) or through meeting up on photoshoots etc. and this, inevitably, brings in a certain amount of personal "banter" and some back slapping all of which helps give each forum its own unique character.
The flip side (maybe?) is that the less frequent, and newer, contributors might see the above, together with the high quality image standard set by UKNP, as barriers and are reluctant to risk breaking away from the "norm" - leading to even more predictability...............
Maybe the mods could help overcome this via a monthly invitation for those "less predictable" submissions, maybe prompted by a selection of themes across the year. What do others think?
I agree with Nick's comments on this. I visit a couple of other forum, and the quality of images on NPN is leagues apart imo.
This forum set a very high standard indeed - however and wherever they were taken, and whilst there are cycles, I very much enjoy looking at all posts.
Maybe the mods could help overcome this via a monthly invitation for those "less predictable" submissions, maybe prompted by a selection of themes across the year. What do others think?"
Cliff, we have tried this before (and am willing to try it again) but what we have found is a complete lack of entry into such a invitation (we did do this weekly as monthly became a bit drawn out given the amount of images we get on the forum)
Well guys, I've recently posted a 'Bird on a Stick' and I don't apologise for it..! I am only a beginner when it comes to bird photography and so if I can get something that may have been done before, well great as I now have something in my library and ultimately I like it!!
I guess what I do get bored with is 100's of images from the same old honey-pot sites and, very much like Danny's comment, I find that I too tend to drift down the 'safe' route. However, I do have a bit of a niche in my photographic interests, so maybe I will stick to those. However the problem being that each image I post will inevitably become 'Predictable' i.e. just another herpetofauna image..
Lessons to be learnt and I will be trying a more varied approach to my imagery and be setting myself much higher standards. However, the tools of the trade in my opinion, whether equipment or software, are only as good as the end user so it doesn't matter what you use as long as your are happy with it and it shows the images exactly how you want it to look.
well I post quite a few birds on a stick if thats the right term and I enjoy that type of photography very much,lets not forget how difficult it can be to get a clear sharp shot of a little flighty bird that is never still I will always enjoy it and enjoy viewing it.But saying that I enjoy all the different images I see on here whether it be polar bears or insects and we should all be happy with what we photograph.Being on the forum has given me loads of advice and ideas how I can achieve a different look on some of my images which I will be having a go at so thank you all for posting all your great images
I think the forum has always had a predictability to it-Dragonflies is normally the first to some and the deer rut one of the last, Still some great images though, Since i have moved states side i still look in everyday if i can and 2 things that i have noticed is that it seems to have become a bit cliquey and image quality lately isn't what it used to be but that comes and goes, As said its still one of the best forums around
Dave
Posted by Barry Southon on March 8, 2010 at 10:39 AM
Dave
Has summed it up in a nutshell, I have learnt and still have a great deal more to learn and I thank you one and all for sharing your knowledge. Whatever the subjects they have no ranking in my book.
Posted by David Kjaer on March 8, 2010 at 11:48 AM
Still one of the best forums of it's kind on the web!
David
Posted by Liam Pauling on March 8, 2010 at 11:53 AM
Following on Cliff's comment, maybe the ability do post an anonymous image post where the owner of the image is revealed a few days later. Just an idea, but when trying something different you could get more responses/honest critique.
I agree with what has been said, the quality on the is forum really is amazing. I try to look at all the images posted both to get inspiration, and if I really like the image or have something to add I will post a comment.
It took some setting up and a change in the software.
It is the Gallery that is used the least, having only about 7 images since its launch about a year ago.
If you want to use it please do.
T
Posted by David Sewell on March 8, 2010 at 4:59 PM
I disagree with Dave Courtney that image quality is not what it used to be, I think some fabulous stuff has been posted already this year. Major's 'Pocket Rocket', Edwin's fox series and Jeroen's bittern series are a few cases in point. Yes, there has been less great stuff as well, but if we wait until we are able to post perfect shots most of us will never post anything.
As for predictability, this is a seasonal game. I predictably will take mainly birds from autumn through until spring, and I predictably will take more herps when (if) the weather warms up. Maybe one day I will surprise you all and post a landscape!
Discussion
19 repliesNot quite sure what he means but it may be something to do with birds on a stick stuff. I don't know. Perhaps he could explain in more detail. Come on Danny !
In response from a personal point of view - a lot of my stuff is predictable.
It has to be. I can't get around as well as I did and I can't afford to pay large amounts of money to be put in a hide, often on foreign shores. I suppose even if I could afford it I would not be happy doing it.
Its a shame that the blue riband stuff gets all the attention.
But then I suppose, thinking back - photograph a greenshank 40 years ago and you were one of the boys!!
Cheers
JohnR
You and me both.
JR
Hey first Rene's post and now yours, its turning into lets get Danny week
First of all I would like to say that I wasn't refering to you or anybody in particular when I said the forum was becoming predictable, what I meant was at certain times of the year you could predict certain subjects/images/locations turning up on the forum. I even meant my own work was becoming predictable and so it was just something I wanted to address. One thing I will say and stick my head up is certain images for example what I call safe images get a lot of comments/feedback ( and I mean my own as well ) which is again what I meant as predictable. I have been down this road before on this forum and don't really want to go down it again but as you questioned it I felt I had to answer John. I would also say I that I don't have as much time as I used to and that my input into the forum is becoming less and less, something that Rene has just alerted to in his post, maybe this is something other members feel strongly about as well and would be good to hear your views.
Danny
Not getting at you at all.
I just wondered what you meant. You have explained it and I agree entirely .
Its Deer ,Seals, Dragons, Polar Bears, Golden eagles , Butters ,BOAS, and Robins at Christmas. etc etc. Nothing wrong with that really I suppose. I like my Tits.
This forum should be about pictures -whatever full stop , and I mean full stop.
Stuff who you were with, or what a good trip you had etc,etc,,or whether Charlie fell over a
sheep in Holland, etc etcc,
The real crunch at the end of the day is -
What is every one doing with these pictures !!! - if they are not posting them on here ?
They certainly aint all selling 'em
Cheers
John
Seriously, stuff may be predictable to you, or others on here... but it isn't predictable to people who don't visit the forum. Most of the work shown on here is of a very very high standard... and while we may get used to seeing it and think it's de-rigeur... it isn't. I've had several examples of showing imagery to people in the last few weeks who haven't seen it before, and what I thought was commonplace has turned out to be anything but.
So, get out there, and get your shots seen folks. Just 'cause you think it's common or predictable on here, it doesn't mean the rest of the world does. This forum is only one small part of a very big world...
It is also a fact of forum life that each will have a hard core of frequent contributors, those who effectively give the forum it's life and continuity. Many of these guys have got to know each other either "virtually" (via the forum) or through meeting up on photoshoots etc. and this, inevitably, brings in a certain amount of personal "banter" and some back slapping all of which helps give each forum its own unique character.
The flip side (maybe?) is that the less frequent, and newer, contributors might see the above, together with the high quality image standard set by UKNP, as barriers and are reluctant to risk breaking away from the "norm" - leading to even more predictability...............
Maybe the mods could help overcome this via a monthly invitation for those "less predictable" submissions, maybe prompted by a selection of themes across the year. What do others think?
This forum set a very high standard indeed - however and wherever they were taken, and whilst there are cycles, I very much enjoy looking at all posts.
Cliff, we have tried this before (and am willing to try it again) but what we have found is a complete lack of entry into such a invitation (we did do this weekly as monthly became a bit drawn out given the amount of images we get on the forum)
T
Everyone does John!
Frederic
I guess what I do get bored with is 100's of images from the same old honey-pot sites and, very much like Danny's comment, I find that I too tend to drift down the 'safe' route. However, I do have a bit of a niche in my photographic interests, so maybe I will stick to those. However the problem being that each image I post will inevitably become 'Predictable' i.e. just another herpetofauna image..
Lessons to be learnt and I will be trying a more varied approach to my imagery and be setting myself much higher standards. However, the tools of the trade in my opinion, whether equipment or software, are only as good as the end user so it doesn't matter what you use as long as your are happy with it and it shows the images exactly how you want it to look.
Brett
Dave
Has summed it up in a nutshell, I have learnt and still have a great deal more to learn and I thank you one and all for sharing your knowledge. Whatever the subjects they have no ranking in my book.
David
I agree with what has been said, the quality on the is forum really is amazing. I try to look at all the images posted both to get inspiration, and if I really like the image or have something to add I will post a comment.
Danny
It took some setting up and a change in the software.
It is the Gallery that is used the least, having only about 7 images since its launch about a year ago.
If you want to use it please do.
T
As for predictability, this is a seasonal game. I predictably will take mainly birds from autumn through until spring, and I predictably will take more herps when (if) the weather warms up. Maybe one day I will surprise you all and post a landscape!
David