Posted by Ben Darvill on March 31, 2010 at 5:45 AM
Dear all,
My first post on here - first of many I hope.
Can I start with a request for help, please? I have finally scraped together enough pennies to buy the Canon 500mm f/4 IS. 'Kerso', who will I'm sure be a familiar name to many on this forum, has given me a great quote. This is the default option and is relatively risk free, assuming Canon continue to honour warranties in the way that they do at present. I'd also just quite like to buy from Ian, as he comes so warmly recommended by many.
However, Panamoz have the lens at £4,100 (including import duty and VAT). A significant saving, but alarms bells suggest that if it sounds too good to be true it probably is.
My thinking is that -
a) if I buy using PayPal I am protected against non-delivery. The lens might take a long time to arrive though.
b) if the invoice/receipt from Panamoz is non-UK then the international warranty will probably not be valid here.
c) although L-series lenses 'never go wrong', there is a chance that I might get a faulty one.
I could save ~£500 by taking a risk with Panamoz. Or I could lose £4,100. It depends how you look at it.
It would help massively to know if anybody on this forum has bought from them in the past, and whether they can be trusted/recommended or whether they should be avoided.
Also, if anyone has experience of how Canon handle grey imports with international warranties but a proof of purchase from overseas, if would be useful to know about this, too.
Many thanks for your help.
Ben
(Dunblane, Scotland)
Posted by Liam Pauling on March 31, 2010 at 6:15 AM
I have never used Ian but many people have and I have yet to see a bad review.
If paying by Paypal I assume you would have to cover the fees? Which would be £123. I wouldn't take the risk as its a lot of money if it goes wrong.
Here are some reviews of Panamoz...
http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews244722.html
Posted by David Sewell on March 31, 2010 at 6:45 AM
I had never heard of Panamoz until today. If something does go wrong, and it turns out the lens supplied was a grey import, you may have to return it to whichever retail arm of Canon covers the country it was supplied from. I know that Nikon can be quite strict on this, but a friend of mine did persuade Sigma to carry out a warranty repair on a grey import lens. Basically it comes down to the level of risk that you are happy with.
David
Posted by Ben Darvill on March 31, 2010 at 6:49 AM
Hi David and Liam,
I agree with what you're saying, but I keep staring at that £500 and thinking of the other things I could spend the money on. Kerso's are also grey imports strictly speaking, but he has a special arrangement that allows a UK invoice to be issued, which as I understand it has so far been enough for Canon.
Lots of people on these types of threads say "save yourself a packet and buy a good one second hand", but I've been looking for a while and they seem to be rare as hens teeth.
Protection at Paypal is not as simple as it first seems, that is since it was taken over by Ebay - there is no longer any guaranteed protection -
"When you pay with PayPal on any website, we can help protect your purchase. PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy covers goods that are purchased and not delivered, but it's important to note that even if the claim is justified, you'll only receive a recovery if there are funds in the seller's account."
99% of people keep their Paypal account at zero, at least I do. It is actually quite difficult to get a transaction cancelled if the seller does not play ball or complains against you in retaliation.
That leaves you trying to recover through your credit card protections scheme, and that is effectivey null and void. The card transaction is between your credit card company and Paypal, not the credit card company and supplier. The reason you get a refund in the latter position is that the credit card company have made the direct purchase and it is they who have failed to deliver to you. Whereas the former is a quasi loan relationship, there is no direct link between your credit card co and the seller. Your remedy is for Paypal to refund your credit card company, and they now contractually restrict that exposure to you in their terms of trading per above.
Paypal terms and conditions have been sneakily modified with little warning since its first inception and pre Ebay ownership
Posted by Ben Darvill on March 31, 2010 at 7:35 AM
Thank you Mike, this is very helpful to know.
And so far as I understand if you buy from a company outside of the EU you cannot get any protection from trading standards etc?
I know it seems tight fisted to be scrabbling around for the rock bottom price, but then it's not in my nature to pay more than is necessary. It's hard to put a figure on that 'risk'.
Thanks again
Ben
Posted by Brian Phipps on March 31, 2010 at 1:22 PM
I can't comment on Panamoz, but have used Ian (kerso) perhaps half a dozen times without problem, but his delivery times can be very slow!! but with the money savings you make, I'm always willing to put up with it.
Discussion
6 repliesMy first post on here - first of many I hope.
Can I start with a request for help, please? I have finally scraped together enough pennies to buy the Canon 500mm f/4 IS. 'Kerso', who will I'm sure be a familiar name to many on this forum, has given me a great quote. This is the default option and is relatively risk free, assuming Canon continue to honour warranties in the way that they do at present. I'd also just quite like to buy from Ian, as he comes so warmly recommended by many.
However, Panamoz have the lens at £4,100 (including import duty and VAT). A significant saving, but alarms bells suggest that if it sounds too good to be true it probably is.
My thinking is that -
a) if I buy using PayPal I am protected against non-delivery. The lens might take a long time to arrive though.
b) if the invoice/receipt from Panamoz is non-UK then the international warranty will probably not be valid here.
c) although L-series lenses 'never go wrong', there is a chance that I might get a faulty one.
I could save ~£500 by taking a risk with Panamoz. Or I could lose £4,100. It depends how you look at it.
It would help massively to know if anybody on this forum has bought from them in the past, and whether they can be trusted/recommended or whether they should be avoided.
Also, if anyone has experience of how Canon handle grey imports with international warranties but a proof of purchase from overseas, if would be useful to know about this, too.
Many thanks for your help.
Ben
(Dunblane, Scotland)
If paying by Paypal I assume you would have to cover the fees? Which would be £123. I wouldn't take the risk as its a lot of money if it goes wrong.
Here are some reviews of Panamoz...
http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews244722.html
David
I agree with what you're saying, but I keep staring at that £500 and thinking of the other things I could spend the money on. Kerso's are also grey imports strictly speaking, but he has a special arrangement that allows a UK invoice to be issued, which as I understand it has so far been enough for Canon.
Lots of people on these types of threads say "save yourself a packet and buy a good one second hand", but I've been looking for a while and they seem to be rare as hens teeth.
Ben
"When you pay with PayPal on any website, we can help protect your purchase. PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy covers goods that are purchased and not delivered, but it's important to note that even if the claim is justified, you'll only receive a recovery if there are funds in the seller's account."
99% of people keep their Paypal account at zero, at least I do. It is actually quite difficult to get a transaction cancelled if the seller does not play ball or complains against you in retaliation.
That leaves you trying to recover through your credit card protections scheme, and that is effectivey null and void. The card transaction is between your credit card company and Paypal, not the credit card company and supplier. The reason you get a refund in the latter position is that the credit card company have made the direct purchase and it is they who have failed to deliver to you. Whereas the former is a quasi loan relationship, there is no direct link between your credit card co and the seller. Your remedy is for Paypal to refund your credit card company, and they now contractually restrict that exposure to you in their terms of trading per above.
Paypal terms and conditions have been sneakily modified with little warning since its first inception and pre Ebay ownership
And so far as I understand if you buy from a company outside of the EU you cannot get any protection from trading standards etc?
I know it seems tight fisted to be scrabbling around for the rock bottom price, but then it's not in my nature to pay more than is necessary. It's hard to put a figure on that 'risk'.
Thanks again
Ben