So I finally got my REI dividen and I'm thinking about getting one of the Garmin MapSource offerings for my GPS. I'm torn between the US cities (my GPS can auto-route and it would be nice to get turn by turn driving directions to some obscure places) and the US Topo (which would be an easy choice for me but since it only goes to 1:100,000 I wonder how useful it really is).
Thanks,
Guy
Posted by Fred Stearns on March 7, 2006 at 9:47 PM
Guy,
I have a very old copy of MapSource TOPO. It is far better than the base map in the GPS unit. It may not be the best, but I find it has quite a lot of landmarks. I find that it has better resolution than a lot of trail maps. It also does well on the roads too. I tried to use another version of teh maps, like National Geographic. But you can only upload the routes and not the real maps. This is true for all the GPS units that I looked into. I would like to update my copy, but I can't find a Copyright date on the packages and don't want to buy an old copy of what I already have.
I have both. I also find the topos useful and would probably choose the topo as my first choice. At 1/100000, you don't capture every miniscule detail, but you are getting important info about where you are. The zoom feature is very useful to see where you are in the big picture.
I've got the topos and the bluechart for offshore work, but ultimately passed on the street maps. Our daughter and son-in-law have the road map version, so I have a bit of experience with it. I'd say that if your unit is not one of the large screen dash-mounted versions, it's going to be worse than a cell phone for distractions while driving, based upon my own attempts to use my handheld, compared to the one in our daughter's car. If you hate to use cell phones while driving as well as people who do so, you and everyone around you won't be very happy using a handheld in the city.
The topos however, are extremely useful in the field without regard for the scale, simply because they place you so accurately within the map, as Mel points out. I have to say though, that I use mine even more offshore than on land because so much of the important terrain is hidden beneath all that flat blue stuff around you.
Thanks folks! This is great feedback. I'm not a fan of GPS navigation in general (nor of cellular phones for the most part) but I do use them to find my way back to the car on occasion. I went ahead and ordered the topo CD.
Nah, I'm beyond Starbuck's. I contracted Mark Hudon to go on hikes with me and brew a custom blend of organic roasts every morning. I have to admit though I am scared to ask him for a Frappucino.. he might shoot me in my sleep.
I'm still skeptical about the whole GPS thing but what the heck - I paid my orienteering/navigation dues for over 20 years now and I'm curious to see what technology is up to in that space. You will still not catch me in unknown territory without a(t least one) map and compass though.
One thing you might find really useful in the GPS is the detailed and accurate sunrise/sunset info keyed to your location. Takes a whole bunch of the guesswork out, especially when you also use the electronic compass built into the unit. I was a real kurmudgeon about handheld GPS's, even though I relied on them extensively on the ocean, as did the bush pilots I chartered. It took about a day of futzing around at home with the handheld unit to get used to it, then a couple of day trips into the hills, to get really hooked on it.
Another use you should also really appreciate- navigating to and from sites in darkness, especially off developed trails. If you've been there before and saved the route, your GPS will make it a whole lot easier. Just don't forget the extra batteries!
Thanks Hank. This does sound very exciting and I'm looking forward to finding out how I can leverage these tools. The night hiking part didn't even occur to me. I can definitely see some value there.
There's a key feature to keep in mind for night work Guy: repeatability. While the GPS will be only somewhat useful on the first trip into an area due to limited detail in the topo maps (basically no different and no better than using the paper maps), things change when you turn around and head back out, or decide to return to the same location in darkness the next morning or the next year.
Once you have prior routes marked and saved, good GPS are startlingly accurate in retracing them and finding specific locations. Depending on how many satellites the thing detects at any one time, as well as how long yours has been on to help fix your location, we're talking repeatability of less than ten feet, often a lot less.
To illustrate that last point, I dropped a lens while walking in rocky country where I basically left no footprints. I discovered the loss when I got back to my truck after dark, then retraced my route for over a mile and walked right back to the lens. Yeah, I'm a fan!
Posted by Philip Kuglin on March 17, 2006 at 1:19 AM
I have mixed feelings on these. I have the Garmin USA topo and find is very inaccurate. Not really all that usefull for hiking IMHO. I also find the handheld units poor for street nav. The screen is just too small to be usefull. The car units from the auto makers are a different story since they use a combo of satellites and dead reckoning plus the screens are much bigger.
I also found the small units poor in many areas ofthe SW if you didn't have a completely open view of the sky. If you are in a tight canyon forget it as you loose the 3d feature since they don't see enough sats.
Where I did find one usefull (other than than the sun/moon info stated before) was 4-wheeling out of remote locations like around Lake Powel. After dark it sometimes becomes very hard to see the dirt road out especially when it becomes sliprock and not dirt. The wayward point and track feature really helps you reverse your path out as Hank pointed out.
Paul, after a day out with the Legend Cx and MapSource Topo maps I have to agree they are extremely inaccurate. Much of the time it showed me traveling a ways off the actual roads, some intersections were completely missing from the map, but major features were pretty well identified. I wouldn't rely on it for road navigation but it did a decent job in showing me the general area I was in.
I also found the new Cx to have much better reception than the older generation. It only lost signal for a very bried period (literally seconds) while in a deep canyon but quickly regained it (within 50 yards or so, still inside the same canyon).
I don't own a GPS but am excited about embedding location data into photos. Awhile back I checked out one of Microsoft's exprimental apps called WWMX from www.wwmx.org (no, I don't work for MS). It seemed like the easiest way to embed data, just turn on your GPS while you shoot then when you download the image it compairs the time stamps to your location and embeds the info accordingly. Even if your GPS isn't supported you can manually enter coordinates.
While searching for for the WWMX link I also found intresting overview on GPS and Photography:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/digitalphotography/prophoto/gps.mspx
Discussion
16 repliesSo I finally got my REI dividen and I'm thinking about getting one of the Garmin MapSource offerings for my GPS. I'm torn between the US cities (my GPS can auto-route and it would be nice to get turn by turn driving directions to some obscure places) and the US Topo (which would be an easy choice for me but since it only goes to 1:100,000 I wonder how useful it really is).
Thanks,
Guy
I have a very old copy of MapSource TOPO. It is far better than the base map in the GPS unit. It may not be the best, but I find it has quite a lot of landmarks. I find that it has better resolution than a lot of trail maps. It also does well on the roads too. I tried to use another version of teh maps, like National Geographic. But you can only upload the routes and not the real maps. This is true for all the GPS units that I looked into. I would like to update my copy, but I can't find a Copyright date on the packages and don't want to buy an old copy of what I already have.
The topos however, are extremely useful in the field without regard for the scale, simply because they place you so accurately within the map, as Mel points out. I have to say though, that I use mine even more offshore than on land because so much of the important terrain is hidden beneath all that flat blue stuff around you.
Guy
Well, Wisconsin topography is not all that complicated
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
Guy
I'm still skeptical about the whole GPS thing but what the heck - I paid my orienteering/navigation dues for over 20 years now and I'm curious to see what technology is up to in that space. You will still not catch me in unknown territory without a(t least one) map and compass though.
Guy
One thing you might find really useful in the GPS is the detailed and accurate sunrise/sunset info keyed to your location. Takes a whole bunch of the guesswork out, especially when you also use the electronic compass built into the unit. I was a real kurmudgeon about handheld GPS's, even though I relied on them extensively on the ocean, as did the bush pilots I chartered. It took about a day of futzing around at home with the handheld unit to get used to it, then a couple of day trips into the hills, to get really hooked on it.
Another use you should also really appreciate- navigating to and from sites in darkness, especially off developed trails. If you've been there before and saved the route, your GPS will make it a whole lot easier. Just don't forget the extra batteries!
Guy
Once you have prior routes marked and saved, good GPS are startlingly accurate in retracing them and finding specific locations. Depending on how many satellites the thing detects at any one time, as well as how long yours has been on to help fix your location, we're talking repeatability of less than ten feet, often a lot less.
To illustrate that last point, I dropped a lens while walking in rocky country where I basically left no footprints. I discovered the loss when I got back to my truck after dark, then retraced my route for over a mile and walked right back to the lens. Yeah, I'm a fan!
I also found the small units poor in many areas ofthe SW if you didn't have a completely open view of the sky. If you are in a tight canyon forget it as you loose the 3d feature since they don't see enough sats.
Where I did find one usefull (other than than the sun/moon info stated before) was 4-wheeling out of remote locations like around Lake Powel. After dark it sometimes becomes very hard to see the dirt road out especially when it becomes sliprock and not dirt. The wayward point and track feature really helps you reverse your path out as Hank pointed out.
I also found the new Cx to have much better reception than the older generation. It only lost signal for a very bried period (literally seconds) while in a deep canyon but quickly regained it (within 50 yards or so, still inside the same canyon).
Guy
While searching for for the WWMX link I also found intresting overview on GPS and Photography:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/digitalphotography/prophoto/gps.mspx