Simple question.
Where have a lot of the old names gone from this forum. ? And why ?
If they are "no longer " - then I appologise for obvious reasons
But I repeat - where have they gone ? and why ?
Maybe they are not selling pics and can't afford the joining fee ? (joke) Come on- £30 you have only got to sell 6 pics for that
"Times - they are a changing "
I think that there has been a population explosion of Forums in the last few years and if you go on various forums you will find some 'faces' that you used to see here, Since leaving the UK i visit 3 or 4 Nature forums both UK and USA as well as doing my website,facebook,blog etc it takes a lot of my personal time, I guess others are in the same boat and have just settled else where
The nature of the forum has changed quite dramatically in the last couple of years - it is after all an image critique forum for photographers who just happen to enjoy natural history photography - the emphasis used to be on the CRITIQUE bit.
It was a forum where people who wanted to IMPROVE their photography came and posted images for CRITIQUE by their peers.
NOT ANY MORE so it would seem..........sadly.
There is a large proportion of members who now want to post "look what I saw.." images, with little desire to improve their own photography. This is all well and good, but it has had the somewhat divisive effect of splitting the membership ideology into those who want it as it USED TO BE and those who want it as it is now.
Those that want it as it used to be are seemingly outnumbered.
Some members post excellent quality potentially highly saleable images; or they at least display a distinct ability to do so in the future, with guidance; and receive a disproportionately low amount of feedback.
The truth really does need to be told here - there is some real "junk" posted on this forum now; those that post it pat each other on the back which does nothing more than perpetuate the problem; and from my little ivory tower as a pro in this game I can say this with a certain degree of surety and knowledge.
What do I mean by "junk"?
An image that illustrates the photographers lack of understanding of their equipment, post processing, the subject AND a lack of imagination or creativity is what I mean - AND NOTHING ELSE.
I am not pointing any fingers, but as the saying goes, "if the cap fits.................." and all that.
If you produce images as described above BUT you want to improve your photography then seek guidance from those forum members who post images of a quality you admire and aspire to - not those that post images at your current standard, otherwise you just perpetuate your own, and the forums problem.
Harsh words no doubt...........
But I just ask one question: why post an image on an IMAGE CRITIQUE forum if you don't want it critiqued, and you have no desire to learn or improve..?
The fact that the OVERALL standard has dropped and that a large percentage of the posters seem to either miss the point of the forum, or just plain disregard it, is why the old guard don't post or partake so much - they've become somewhat disillusioned with it all - or at least the vast majority that speak to me have.
Make of that what you will....................
And if you think 6 of my images are only worth £30 John.....
I can only speak for myself, but I rarely post images now because I simply just have not the time. I still visit here during my lunch break, and enjoy many of the images and some of the critique from which I still learn.
I don't think that the standard has dropped, but I do think that the standard of critique might not just be as high as it used to be.
I must say that the one thing which I do object to is photographers objecting to critique of their photographs for whatever reason. Why bother posting if you cannot stomach fair critique?
Best wishes
Phil
Andy, I suspect the whole forum is now thinking 'does he mean me?' I can't say I've noticed people not wanting critique or getting tetchy when critique is offered, but maybe I've missed certain posts.
I've been a member for 2 and a bit years so am by no means an old timer on the forum, but I've noticed that one or two individuals whose opinion I very much respected are no longer very active. I think it's just the nature of forums, inevitably people drift in and drift out.
Personally, I still very much like this forum and think it is by far the best of its kind on the net.
I think Andy has made some very valid points and pretty much hit the nail on the head, I dont post here much now that i live in the States as i dont want to fill a Euro forum with American species but i still comment as regular as i can
Andy has hit the nail on the head, and i have felt this about the forum for a while.
I have given advice to some people on here, which seems have fallen on deaf ears. which i find strange. I try to give honest genuine feedback, based on what i feel about the image. everyone has a different perspective on what they like and dislike about pictures.
I only post my images for critque reasons, as i want to improve my photography / PP and composition as much as possible.
Not as an ego boosting exercise.
From my perspective I think Andy Astbury has hit the nail “clean” on head. I remember quite clearly the first photo I ever posted on a forum (not this one) which Dave Courtenay told me was “for the bin”. More importantly he then went on to explain why.
Now to some that might seem like harsh criticism but if I’m honest it was perfectly fair, we all tend to see our own work through rose coloured spectacles at times. I was actually chuffed that DC had taken the time to tell me what I was doing wrong and made sure I didn’t make those mistakes again.
In those days I looked at this forum as being in a completely different league. There was really detailed criticism on some very fine and subtle points. A year or so back a member of this forum encouraged me to join NPN telling me it was time to move to a forum where they “wear big trousers” and that it would be beneficial to helping me improve my photography.
Sadly I don’t believe it is a place where “big trousers” are worn any more, at least not all the time. Yes the standard of photography is certainly better than the run of the mill “slap my back” forums but the standard of critique is not that much better. Good critique is the fuel to help us improve our photography, without it we are going nowhere....fast. Hopefully the standard will improve over the coming months
Calum
I've just replied to a post nearer the top of the pile and now I find that I have made some of the same points as AA has here. But then I must have been paying attention to the right people
Andy has hit the nail on the head, and i have felt this about the forum for a while.
I have given advice to some people on here, which seems have fallen on deaf ears. which i find strange. I try to give honest genuine feedback, based on what i feel about the image. everyone has a different perspective on what they like and dislike about pictures.
I only post my images for critque reasons, as i want to improve my photography / PP and composition as much as possible.
Not as an ego boosting exercise.
I can honestly say when I first joined I thought oh that was a harsh comment,all the effort i put into that shot,but I am so glad I joined and stayed.This is one of the best forums I am on, and the amount I have learnt from all the advice I have been given has been great.especially on the composition of my shots,which I still sometimes get wrong but mostly I do now take great notice of.My pp skills are slowly improving although I may still be asking a few questions at a later date on some of my images.But overall its a great forum to learn from and learn new skills,I like the way common garden birds still get good praise when they are taken well,because a lot of us cannot go to some of the more exotic places,but it is lovely to see them when they are posted.Hopefully those who have posted junk so Andy has put it,can learn from the advice given,although I don t think I have seen any junk to be honest.
Interesting points Andy and summed up very well IMHO, clear and concise.
The 'loss' of some of the 'old names' for me has meant the Forum has lost it's teeth, especially when it comes to CRITIQUE, the main and whole point of joining personally as this was what it was renowned for. When I first joined almost four years ago there was good, strong, POSITIVE and constructive feedback and I valued that and still do, how else are we to learn?
For me, to see 'nice image' in a reply/critique means that that person has no real comment/contribution to make, but would like to be seen to post, personally like a few others, I feel that it is worse than not posting a reply. Some comments were/are hard to accept especially when starting out or just learning, but then surely our photography can only get stronger and better from this. Although some may feel rather brittle and bite back, but to my knowledge most comments are there to be helpful and are genuine in content, nothing more.
Perhaps the issue is we have lost the 'art' of critique and therefore some simple guidelines could be compiled as to what to look for, composition, crop, colour etc by people who know, perhaps that may help, who knows, but my fear is that the slow trickle will continue. In addition the members/non-members part I do find strange and would like to see members only as before, as I certainly will review it next time round as I see very little benefit at present.
I value the Forum both in terms of the advice and the friendships made, and would like to think that part of my progression is down to some key people here, now & the past, but do fear what Andy has clearly stated.
We have staryed a long way from John's original post here!
My brief tuppence worth;
Fair and appropriate feedback - we are not doing it at present, there is too much love in feedback. We need to return back to the days when we say it as it is, ie get it right in camera and stop using PS as a means to correct poor photography. More suggestions of the use fill in flash rather than highlight tool would probably help for a starters.......... "great effort considering the lighting conditions" only perpetuates bad photography as does "try using highlight tool to reduce the contrast".......
Honesty of posting - Forum posting rules suggest the level of cropping ishould be disclosed - judging by some recent efforts the posted image is less than 10% of the total original image. Poor technique, laziness, or simple cheating - take your pick. No image stands up to serious cropping and they are rather obvious. A rule of thumb standard for serious posts (whatever a serious post is....) may be "if you can't print at at 300DPI A4 size, don't post it" - I haven't a clue how you can enforce this but it would certainly lift the standard of detail displayed in the images.
Briefly back to the original post query -
John - Forum churn is inevitable, we have lost some great photographers even before you joined, Guy Edwardes, Marko Trebusak for landscapes and Bart Breet in bird photography come to mind, and we will continue to lose some more in the future.....
Posted by Andy Astbury on May 18, 2010 at 12:52 PM
I have to agree with AA in parts,not the junk comments, even though I have had my issues with him and another forum member in the past and still do today which has caused my own comments to 'Fall Off'No mention of Wildlife?? all processing?? I feel people who don't even know me just passing me by and making a big point of it.I always ask for comments and advice but my last few images have been really low on both ,maybe wild Tigers are not liked who know's? It really hurts that captive or a less natural images get more comments.I am on here to help others and recevie advice and help and if I chose to say 'Nice Image' who is anyone to say this is right or wrong?? I look to others for help and advice but I receive very little as I am not in the click.It seems you can swear,insult/blue rinse comments on here and be forgiven,but get spoke about,gossip,private phone calls making rubbish up in the wrong light and you are passed by like an old pair of shoes.I like to help others and have done on my own workshops/one to ones I run and even If I get no comments I will still post on here as I do feel the standard is the best around and its not just for the well-named on here, its for all and everyone should be made welcome!! I always learn from others work.How do you know you have done something wrong unless you are told?,I was taught this is called 'Learning'.My processing lets me work down but knowone says nothing just over 200+ views and a few comments which I thank people all the time but this really goes against what the forum stands for I beleive.And before you think 'Who does he think he is' I don't think I'm knowone,these are just my own thoughts and comments on what has happened to myself at the hands of forum members on here who now try to tell others.The number of sly comments to forum members,bogus emails on my workshops,false booking,132 spam-website addresses going to soft porn and hardcore pornsites here and in holland that my wife opens sometimes as she does my books and paperwork,nasty phonecalls to other forum members warning them not to go into workshops with me,the last was Jeroen Stel,who now is a good friend,AA had gone to the trouble of contacting him to try and put Jeroen off working with me!! he has carried on this rubbish since early last year when he was really rude,loud,shouting 'Are You Stupid' when I asked about things I did'nt understand when I was receiving so called help from him,don't have nothing to do with him now and that's where my problem begin,all the issues above lay at his door. I have great friends,good guys,lead a good life the only people I have had words with are on here are named!!! I could go on and on and as I have traced the signals through a friend at GCHQ to areas not to far from my Staffordshire home i no who they are and they do too,to afraid to speak face to face rather do it through others with lies and sniping comments like Julian had said but now has changed his words,maybe received a call as its his way of shutting you up!so the problems for me go deeper than just no comments for me its Bullying with a captial 'B' and I hate Bullies
Some are only active when their photography is active, when they are pushing the boundarys of their own photography and seeking some critique from peers on their progress. Some are active more of the time, critiquing even when they have not recently posted an image; to give more than you receive is normally seen as good - providing it is given freely.
The reason for this forum hasn't changed since day one and it supports these people. It supports a framework/network for those that want to learn about the photography of wildlife; not simply wildlife itself.
You learn the most when you post your most innovative/best work and seek (constructive) comments upon it; posting your weaker / ordinary / daily / record work only (usually) returns repeated comments; and people get tired of repeats. Being seen not to learn ensures, in future, you will not to be told.
Critique, backed up by your own photography, defines how much credence people give to your critique; that said a wise person listens and encourages even the humblest voice for they too have experience, an experience you may not have had as yet.
If your posts do not attract critique ask yourself this - does this post exhibit my best photography? If so I would venture you have not learnt from past comments/advise given to you, if it doesn't ask yourself "Why did I post it here? - for with the current daily amount of new images on this forum most will pick and choose and what they comment upon for critiquing everything would leave no time for photography
I guess I count as one of the 'older' members around at the moment who is not really taking an active part in the forum at the moment, I will explain my main reasons...
My work is keeping me very busy at the moment and I am involved with a certain comp that is entering its final stages....
Most importantly Fran and I are busy planning and preparing for our future which is keeping us rather pre-occupied. My participation is going to be infrequent, at some time this year we will be making a move that will be a turning point in our lives. On top of this I am going to be trying to decide if I am going to fight hard to keep a job as the financial downturn finally takes a huge bite from our staffing.....
On the subject of critique etc... I guess in a way I agree with Andy.... I have always tried to help people both on and off the forum, however, at times you wonder why you offer advice when it is completely ignored, I am afraid that at times I look at an image and then decide, well that person ignored any advice the last time, they are making the same errors here, is it worth me commenting? Critique has to be a two way thing and has to be constructive....
It really is pleasing to read when people acknowledge the help and advice from the forum...
This has been raised a few times, previously I felt it was a bit harsh, but now I have been on here a little longer I have to agree with what AA has said. If I post something that people think is junk, I would like to be told it was and why rather than a few nice shot comments. I personally find it hard to criticise pro's work, simply because I don't feel "qualified" to do so, its also hard to pick on something negative when a post has 20+ positive comments.
Craig, of your last 25 odd posts, only 3 have received less than 15 comments and those 3 still had more than 10. I wouldn't worry about that, I would be over the moon to get that level of feedback.
Back to Johns point , Yes I have been asking myself where a few peeps have gone even in the last year, people whos skill I admired and critique I respected, quite sad really!
As a newer participant to this forum, I don't know the the long history of the forum and therefore cannot say in response to John where other participants have gone, however reading all the other comments, particularly regarding offering critique to images posted, I had noticed there was a little less critical advice being offered (if that's the right term) and more of the general congratulatory comments, worst of all, I realised I had being doing this too!
All this aside, I think this is the best critique forum and I have been very grateful for the advice I have received on the limited number of postings to date. Unfortunately for me, photography as a hobby is somewhat restricted due to work and other commitments, along with the time to post considered comments, although some techniques I don't feel qualified to comment constructively.
One thing I have noticed, is where people have posted images and asked for specific comments and advice, the level of critique appeared to rise which suggests there maybe more onus in the individual posting an image to specify what type of advice/critique they're seeking. Just a thought!
I will continue to comment and post images in the future as time allows and hope that the forum continues as it was envisaged, I am sure over time there will new photographers joining who become the new flowers, I myself will be one of them.
I guess there are many reasons why people come and go on the forum. Concentrating on photographic reasons then I suspect people, pros especially, need to see value for the time invested in the forum. If the general comments received are not adding value to the individual concerned then I guess people start to question is it a good use of time.
As Andy has put very clearly, this is a Photo Critique Forum. If the forum, through its contributors and the moderators , offers high value critique then it will be the place of choice for like minded individuals to give and receive feedback on nature photographs.
Ouch, some strong words and some obvious bad feelings, I love looking on here, there is a lot to be learned from the comments and critiques posted. However I stopped posting pics on here for two reasons, 1. I honestly didnt think I was good enough to stand beside some of you, and 2. I didnt like the type of criticism where the only thing that was said was something like "I'd have cropped a millimetre off the top". Also I am crap at Photoshop and I believe that some of the pictures posted by some are great examples of good computer skills rather than photography skills, and I refer you back to my first ever post where I stated that anyone can take a photo but only a few can make an average shot look brilliant. I am still striving for the Picture of my own that I can look at and say "thats as good as I can get". but I still learn a lot and will continue to visit, and if I feel the need comment on some of the great pictures that people like John post then its my choice.
I started so I'll finish.
The reason I paid me money and joined this forum was to post some natural history pictures and get some comments good or bad. There were some members of the site whos work I had admired for years. I thought this site is the “dogs testicles.”
I have to say that I class myself as a naturalist who takes photographs of what he sees, with, in todays and forum members equipment terms , “crap “ gear. I cannot travel as much as I did and so a lot of my stuff is boring garden birds on a perch or pool stuff. That, I am afraid is all I can do. If some forum members find it repetitive , I doappologise.
I imagined , because it was called called a “Nature Photogrphers .co.uk “ Forum,
that the emphasis would be on pictures of wildlife generally. I am sorry but I do not feel that this is the case. I would call it a Photographers Forum with members who do some or a lot of wildlife stuff. The critique in my opinion is based nearly 100% on photographic ideals and principles. As I have said times before there is often little consideration for the difficulty of the subject-
For example – there is no way that my pic of Anemones in a jam jar can be compared “photographically” with Dave K’s shot of the hobby in flight.
It’s all well and good to say comments should be only critique , usually impying faults etc – but I would argue that “nice “ comments can be usefull too, especially to those just starting out in nature photography
Some one mentioned “ record “ shots or those which have little photographic merit.
There’s another can of wigglies for a start.! There are those “big “ boys on the site with superb ability pp wise who are able to , or suggest turning a perfectly natural wild life image with twigs in the background for example into something completely commercial or “Digital camera Magazine “ fodder.
I remain yours confusedly
--and Fred D should stick to what he knows best -- his egg and chips !
In your post above you mention that you do not think you are good enough, I think that can help.
I recently posted an enquire about drip feeds, about which I knew nothing. To cut a long story short, I finally met a warden at a relatively local nature reserve and he helped me considerably. He not only showed me three different methods of using water to attract subjects in, but also what hides techniques would most likely work best, he even loaned me a complete collapsible drip feed, must return it.
Bottom line is, I believe he is doing a number of what I can only call workshops, which are free, about the techniques used on how to get wildlife images prior to pressing the button.
The best part is that when I offered to pay for his time, he said forget, just get the coffee’s in next time.
Email me on price_mark53@yahoo.co.uk if you are interested.
Been following this thread with interest, it is very enlightening.
John, with your comment “-and Fred D should stick to what he knows best -- his egg and chips !”. Well, you have proven his point, far better than he ever could have.
Making such statements, doesn’t just rile the person it is aimed at, but also others reading it, and affects their opinion of yourself. Thus ultimately costing members.
David (The UKNP Troll)
Sorry -you obviously did't realise it was a joke.
We are good friends in fact.
I'm also a bit too old to worry too much about peoples opinions of me- it's the photography we are on here for.
JohnR
Two posts... aimed at antagonising.... not good, I know them both and know that they will take the ribbing... I suggest that if you cannot keep on topic then you keep quiet and go back to lurking...
Julian/Phil
Been warm today Phil -Got some good news for you.
The UKNP Troll
Who ever you are as a lurking non member.
Fred D's initial comment was followed by a load of bouncies. Does that not imply to you a tongue in cheek comment or a joke ?
My reply obviously followed that on.
If you think old age is funny - then there is only one response to that. Get old and you can tell me about it.
Give us your full name and E mail etc and I can contact you in private without tarnishing the ethos and ideals of this forum and taking this thread way off into the wilderness, and a multitude of other posting rules, which apparently you are not aware of.
JohnR
This is just INCREDIBLE.....this is probably why everybody is leaving this forum, some people have lost their sense of humour ...It is becoming too serious......AND yes I WAS TEASING John that I know very well....CHILL OUT PEOPLE! Photography yes! But ,it is possible to do it with a SMILE!
Frederic
This thread has run it's useful life, it's now shut as the last 6(ish) replies are off topic (to be honest the whole tread is)
Frederic, your reply is timely, and spot on.
To those involved in continuely bringing these personal external soap operas into the forum (eg One of which Nick and I refer to as Cannock ), please stop, for it is nothing to do with this forum and trying to link it to this forum is like blaming a public house for those you meet inside it.
Also to those who wish to spoil the forum by using it to deliver snide comments, again, please stop if you have any personal issues sort them out in private.
Discussion
30 repliesWhere have a lot of the old names gone from this forum. ? And why ?
If they are "no longer " - then I appologise for obvious reasons
But I repeat - where have they gone ? and why ?
Maybe they are not selling pics and can't afford the joining fee ?
"Times - they are a changing "
JohnR
This is a serious question by the way,
Dave
Kind regards
Frederic
It was a forum where people who wanted to IMPROVE their photography came and posted images for CRITIQUE by their peers.
NOT ANY MORE so it would seem..........sadly.
There is a large proportion of members who now want to post "look what I saw.." images, with little desire to improve their own photography. This is all well and good, but it has had the somewhat divisive effect of splitting the membership ideology into those who want it as it USED TO BE and those who want it as it is now.
Those that want it as it used to be are seemingly outnumbered.
Some members post excellent quality potentially highly saleable images; or they at least display a distinct ability to do so in the future, with guidance; and receive a disproportionately low amount of feedback.
The truth really does need to be told here - there is some real "junk" posted on this forum now; those that post it pat each other on the back which does nothing more than perpetuate the problem; and from my little ivory tower as a pro in this game I can say this with a certain degree of surety and knowledge.
What do I mean by "junk"?
An image that illustrates the photographers lack of understanding of their equipment, post processing, the subject AND a lack of imagination or creativity is what I mean - AND NOTHING ELSE.
I am not pointing any fingers, but as the saying goes, "if the cap fits.................." and all that.
If you produce images as described above BUT you want to improve your photography then seek guidance from those forum members who post images of a quality you admire and aspire to - not those that post images at your current standard, otherwise you just perpetuate your own, and the forums problem.
Harsh words no doubt...........
But I just ask one question: why post an image on an IMAGE CRITIQUE forum if you don't want it critiqued, and you have no desire to learn or improve..?
The fact that the OVERALL standard has dropped and that a large percentage of the posters seem to either miss the point of the forum, or just plain disregard it, is why the old guard don't post or partake so much - they've become somewhat disillusioned with it all - or at least the vast majority that speak to me have.
Make of that what you will....................
And if you think 6 of my images are only worth £30 John.....
I don't think that the standard has dropped, but I do think that the standard of critique might not just be as high as it used to be.
I must say that the one thing which I do object to is photographers objecting to critique of their photographs for whatever reason. Why bother posting if you cannot stomach fair critique?
Best wishes
Phil
I've been a member for 2 and a bit years so am by no means an old timer on the forum, but I've noticed that one or two individuals whose opinion I very much respected are no longer very active. I think it's just the nature of forums, inevitably people drift in and drift out.
Personally, I still very much like this forum and think it is by far the best of its kind on the net.
Matt
Dave
I have given advice to some people on here, which seems have fallen on deaf ears. which i find strange. I try to give honest genuine feedback, based on what i feel about the image. everyone has a different perspective on what they like and dislike about pictures.
I only post my images for critque reasons, as i want to improve my photography / PP and composition as much as possible.
Not as an ego boosting exercise.
Mark.G
Now to some that might seem like harsh criticism but if I’m honest it was perfectly fair, we all tend to see our own work through rose coloured spectacles at times. I was actually chuffed that DC had taken the time to tell me what I was doing wrong and made sure I didn’t make those mistakes again.
In those days I looked at this forum as being in a completely different league. There was really detailed criticism on some very fine and subtle points. A year or so back a member of this forum encouraged me to join NPN telling me it was time to move to a forum where they “wear big trousers” and that it would be beneficial to helping me improve my photography.
Sadly I don’t believe it is a place where “big trousers” are worn any more, at least not all the time. Yes the standard of photography is certainly better than the run of the mill “slap my back” forums but the standard of critique is not that much better. Good critique is the fuel to help us improve our photography, without it we are going nowhere....fast. Hopefully the standard will improve over the coming months
Calum
I have given advice to some people on here, which seems have fallen on deaf ears. which i find strange. I try to give honest genuine feedback, based on what i feel about the image. everyone has a different perspective on what they like and dislike about pictures.
I only post my images for critque reasons, as i want to improve my photography / PP and composition as much as possible.
Not as an ego boosting exercise.
Mark.G
The 'loss' of some of the 'old names' for me has meant the Forum has lost it's teeth, especially when it comes to CRITIQUE, the main and whole point of joining personally as this was what it was renowned for. When I first joined almost four years ago there was good, strong, POSITIVE and constructive feedback and I valued that and still do, how else are we to learn?
For me, to see 'nice image' in a reply/critique means that that person has no real comment/contribution to make, but would like to be seen to post, personally like a few others, I feel that it is worse than not posting a reply. Some comments were/are hard to accept especially when starting out or just learning, but then surely our photography can only get stronger and better from this. Although some may feel rather brittle and bite back, but to my knowledge most comments are there to be helpful and are genuine in content, nothing more.
Perhaps the issue is we have lost the 'art' of critique and therefore some simple guidelines could be compiled as to what to look for, composition, crop, colour etc by people who know, perhaps that may help, who knows, but my fear is that the slow trickle will continue. In addition the members/non-members part I do find strange and would like to see members only as before, as I certainly will review it next time round as I see very little benefit at present.
I value the Forum both in terms of the advice and the friendships made, and would like to think that part of my progression is down to some key people here, now & the past, but do fear what Andy has clearly stated.
The strength in the Forum is in it's content.
My brief tuppence worth;
Fair and appropriate feedback - we are not doing it at present, there is too much love in feedback. We need to return back to the days when we say it as it is, ie get it right in camera and stop using PS as a means to correct poor photography. More suggestions of the use fill in flash rather than highlight tool would probably help for a starters.......... "great effort considering the lighting conditions" only perpetuates bad photography as does "try using highlight tool to reduce the contrast".......
Honesty of posting - Forum posting rules suggest the level of cropping ishould be disclosed - judging by some recent efforts the posted image is less than 10% of the total original image. Poor technique, laziness, or simple cheating - take your pick. No image stands up to serious cropping and they are rather obvious. A rule of thumb standard for serious posts (whatever a serious post is....) may be "if you can't print at at 300DPI A4 size, don't post it" - I haven't a clue how you can enforce this but it would certainly lift the standard of detail displayed in the images.
Briefly back to the original post query -
John - Forum churn is inevitable, we have lost some great photographers even before you joined, Guy Edwardes, Marko Trebusak for landscapes and Bart Breet in bird photography come to mind, and we will continue to lose some more in the future.....
Some are only active when their photography is active, when they are pushing the boundarys of their own photography and seeking some critique from peers on their progress. Some are active more of the time, critiquing even when they have not recently posted an image; to give more than you receive is normally seen as good - providing it is given freely.
The reason for this forum hasn't changed since day one and it supports these people. It supports a framework/network for those that want to learn about the photography of wildlife; not simply wildlife itself.
You learn the most when you post your most innovative/best work and seek (constructive) comments upon it; posting your weaker / ordinary / daily / record work only (usually) returns repeated comments; and people get tired of repeats. Being seen not to learn ensures, in future, you will not to be told.
Critique, backed up by your own photography, defines how much credence people give to your critique; that said a wise person listens and encourages even the humblest voice for they too have experience, an experience you may not have had as yet.
If your posts do not attract critique ask yourself this - does this post exhibit my best photography? If so I would venture you have not learnt from past comments/advise given to you, if it doesn't ask yourself "Why did I post it here? - for with the current daily amount of new images on this forum most will pick and choose and what they comment upon for critiquing everything would leave no time for photography
T
My work is keeping me very busy at the moment and I am involved with a certain comp that is entering its final stages....
Most importantly Fran and I are busy planning and preparing for our future which is keeping us rather pre-occupied. My participation is going to be infrequent, at some time this year we will be making a move that will be a turning point in our lives. On top of this I am going to be trying to decide if I am going to fight hard to keep a job as the financial downturn finally takes a huge bite from our staffing.....
On the subject of critique etc... I guess in a way I agree with Andy.... I have always tried to help people both on and off the forum, however, at times you wonder why you offer advice when it is completely ignored, I am afraid that at times I look at an image and then decide, well that person ignored any advice the last time, they are making the same errors here, is it worth me commenting? Critique has to be a two way thing and has to be constructive....
It really is pleasing to read when people acknowledge the help and advice from the forum...
Phil
This has been raised a few times, previously I felt it was a bit harsh, but now I have been on here a little longer I have to agree with what AA has said. If I post something that people think is junk, I would like to be told it was and why rather than a few nice shot comments. I personally find it hard to criticise pro's work, simply because I don't feel "qualified" to do so, its also hard to pick on something negative when a post has 20+ positive comments.
Craig, of your last 25 odd posts, only 3 have received less than 15 comments and those 3 still had more than 10. I wouldn't worry about that, I would be over the moon to get that level of feedback.
Back to Johns point
Cheers,
Lewis.
All this aside, I think this is the best critique forum and I have been very grateful for the advice I have received on the limited number of postings to date. Unfortunately for me, photography as a hobby is somewhat restricted due to work and other commitments, along with the time to post considered comments, although some techniques I don't feel qualified to comment constructively.
One thing I have noticed, is where people have posted images and asked for specific comments and advice, the level of critique appeared to rise which suggests there maybe more onus in the individual posting an image to specify what type of advice/critique they're seeking. Just a thought!
I will continue to comment and post images in the future as time allows and hope that the forum continues as it was envisaged, I am sure over time there will new photographers joining who become the new flowers, I myself will be one of them.
Heath
I guess there are many reasons why people come and go on the forum. Concentrating on photographic reasons then I suspect people, pros especially, need to see value for the time invested in the forum. If the general comments received are not adding value to the individual concerned then I guess people start to question is it a good use of time.
As Andy has put very clearly, this is a Photo Critique Forum. If the forum, through its contributors and the moderators , offers high value critique then it will be the place of choice for like minded individuals to give and receive feedback on nature photographs.
Cheers
Austin
The reason I paid me money and joined this forum was to post some natural history pictures and get some comments good or bad. There were some members of the site whos work I had admired for years. I thought this site is the “dogs testicles.”
I have to say that I class myself as a naturalist who takes photographs of what he sees, with, in todays and forum members equipment terms , “crap “ gear. I cannot travel as much as I did and so a lot of my stuff is boring garden birds on a perch or pool stuff. That, I am afraid is all I can do. If some forum members find it repetitive , I doappologise.
I imagined , because it was called called a “Nature Photogrphers .co.uk “ Forum,
that the emphasis would be on pictures of wildlife generally. I am sorry but I do not feel that this is the case. I would call it a Photographers Forum with members who do some or a lot of wildlife stuff. The critique in my opinion is based nearly 100% on photographic ideals and principles. As I have said times before there is often little consideration for the difficulty of the subject-
For example – there is no way that my pic of Anemones in a jam jar can be compared “photographically” with Dave K’s shot of the hobby in flight.
It’s all well and good to say comments should be only critique , usually impying faults etc – but I would argue that “nice “ comments can be usefull too, especially to those just starting out in nature photography
Some one mentioned “ record “ shots or those which have little photographic merit.
There’s another can of wigglies for a start.! There are those “big “ boys on the site with superb ability pp wise who are able to , or suggest turning a perfectly natural wild life image with twigs in the background for example into something completely commercial or “Digital camera Magazine “ fodder.
I remain yours confusedly
--and Fred D should stick to what he knows best -- his egg and chips !
John Robinson
In your post above you mention that you do not think you are good enough, I think that can help.
I recently posted an enquire about drip feeds, about which I knew nothing. To cut a long story short, I finally met a warden at a relatively local nature reserve and he helped me considerably. He not only showed me three different methods of using water to attract subjects in, but also what hides techniques would most likely work best, he even loaned me a complete collapsible drip feed, must return it.
Bottom line is, I believe he is doing a number of what I can only call workshops, which are free, about the techniques used on how to get wildlife images prior to pressing the button.
The best part is that when I offered to pay for his time, he said forget, just get the coffee’s in next time.
Email me on price_mark53@yahoo.co.uk if you are interested.
Hope we can meet up.
Mark
John, with your comment “-and Fred D should stick to what he knows best -- his egg and chips !”. Well, you have proven his point, far better than he ever could have.
Making such statements, doesn’t just rile the person it is aimed at, but also others reading it, and affects their opinion of yourself. Thus ultimately costing members.
The UKNP Troll
Sorry -you obviously did't realise it was a joke.
We are good friends in fact.
I'm also a bit too old to worry too much about peoples opinions of me- it's the photography we are on here for.
JohnR
A joke is a joke when it is obvious that it is such.
In the context of this thread, I would suggest that it came across, to the majority who are following this, as the exact opposite.
You say “I'm also a bit too old to worry too much about peoples opinions of me-“ I wondered when you would trot the age thing out. Now that is a Joke.
The UKNP Troll
Two posts... aimed at antagonising.... not good, I know them both and know that they will take the ribbing... I suggest that if you cannot keep on topic then you keep quiet and go back to lurking...
Phil
Been warm today
The UKNP Troll
Who ever you are as a lurking non member.
Fred D's initial comment was followed by a load of bouncies. Does that not imply to you a tongue in cheek comment or a joke ?
My reply obviously followed that on.
If you think old age is funny - then there is only one response to that. Get old and you can tell me about it.
Give us your full name and E mail etc and I can contact you in private without tarnishing the ethos and ideals of this forum and taking this thread way off into the wilderness, and a multitude of other posting rules, which apparently you are not aware of.
JohnR
Frederic
Frederic, your reply is timely, and spot on.
To those involved in continuely bringing these personal external soap operas into the forum (eg One of which Nick and I refer to as Cannock ), please stop, for it is nothing to do with this forum and trying to link it to this forum is like blaming a public house for those you meet inside it.
Also to those who wish to spoil the forum by using it to deliver snide comments, again, please stop if you have any personal issues sort them out in private.
T