I'm still pretty new on here, with only a few posts to my name, so apologies if the following has been previously answered...
I've enjoyed looking at all of the images posted since I joined. Some are excellent and deserve all the praise they get. These ones typically have a high ratio of comments to views. Others are (and I appreciate that it is personal and subjective), average and occasionally poor. These typically get few comments, but the comments they do get seem to be positive.
I think this is great - it's nice that the forum atmosphere is positive and supportive. There's nothing worse than forums full of unpleasantness and bickering. But, in my case I actually want serious critique, not just a confidence building thumbs up. The expertise on the forum has great potential to improve my skills and judgement, but only if people are honest.
So, my question - how do I encourage serious critique - do I just mark each post as such?
Today's offering (for serious critique, please):
Taken in Samos, Greece, a week or so ago.
Heavily cropped (probably less than 25% of original frame)
Background recoloured in PS (was grey)
Canon 7D with 500mm f/4 IS + 1.4x TC
f/9 (camera left on settings from photographing something else, I suspect!)
ISO 800
1/1600 sec
+2/3rd stop EV
Thanks for looking and for help with the question re: critique.
it's a nicely timed shot Ben and a very attractive Bee Eater, but the large crop does seem to have taken some of the detail and will inevitably limit the end use options. The perch is not the most natural looking or attractive either.
Re. critique, there's no easy answer and good' images inevitably end up getting more comments than lower quality images (daft as that is)!
Hi Ben,
You have an excellent capture here, good action and interesting behaviour with the insect being a serious plus. I like the diagonals as well, but however you look at it, Matt is right. If you want to use this commercially it is far to large a crop, you should be aiming to barely crop an image at all imo.
Sometimes I find it difficult to say when a shot is poor, because we have all been there and not everybody likes to hear that the shot they thought was brilliant is actually not all that clever. It is easier to say nothing than to upset people or appear rude or too clever.
I found that I have learned at least as much from what people said they liked about other people's great shots as I have from most of the C&C that I have received. Watch the forum closely and learn from what the photographers you most admire put up. There is more than one way to skin a cat, and there really is some great work on here that merits close study.
I hope that is some help. eric
Hi Ben , I agree with the above, we can all get carried away with cropping, I am as guilty for that as most, but recently i have stopped the heavy cropping, I only go now for around 15% crop make, although you can crop a picture in half for example to turn a landscape into a portrait format, it depends on what you have to start with. Also try to stick to ISO 400 and below, this will give you a much better quality image to work with in the first place. i try to stick with ISO 250 , and only go above that if really necessary.
you had loads of shutter speed for that shot , so ISO 250/320 or 400 would have been better.
Very nice capture and well timed. its great to have that "Third" important element in a picture that makes it stand out from the crowd, the insect for example in yours. with a little more PP this could be lifted to give it alittle more POP.
The problems with this image have already been mentioned - too far away, poor shooting angle, unattractive setting. The best advice that I can give you if you want to improve your shots is to start thinking like a photographer who is trying to make images of birds, rather than a birder who is using a camera rather than a 'scope.
I should have added in mitigation, that there is probably little else you could have done to get an image in these circumstances, so you end up with a distant record shot and there isn't really anything you can do afterwards. One of the most difficult things to teach aspiring and established wildlife photographers is when not to bother shooting.
As already mentioned, the large crop and shooting angle have killed this. Nice bird though! Do they use regular perches lower down? Might be worth staking one out with some camo next time you are over there.
I like the shot for all its limitations, But do I like it for the subject matter or for the quality? If I am honest its the subject matter, I agree with Eric that its hard to criticise someones shots, I have learned more form looking at others shots and trying to emulate the quality than from the comments and critique that my shots received. When I go out to get a shot now I do one of two things, I accept that my shot may not be as technically good as it could be and I keep it as a record and an example of what I got wrong, or I bin it and try for better the next time. I then re-visit my record shots at a later date and if i THINK I've got better I then bin them. I think that we all have our own ideas about comp and cropping, its a personal thing. But if we have a lot of comments saying we've submitted a good shot then thats better than lots saying its rubbish.
For the record I agree with all of the negative comments about this image. It was an opportunistic 'snap' rather than a proper photograph. Lots of post-processing have lifted it to average, in my opinion. It's great to be getting some constructive but yet honest feedback!
A well captured action which works as a snapshot but not as a 'quality image'. Unfortunately most of mine end up like that that's why I haven't posted anything for a while. Keep on trying, nature photography is a great thing to constantly strive to improve at and keep learning as you gain more experience.
Discussion
10 repliesI'm still pretty new on here, with only a few posts to my name, so apologies if the following has been previously answered...
I've enjoyed looking at all of the images posted since I joined. Some are excellent and deserve all the praise they get. These ones typically have a high ratio of comments to views. Others are (and I appreciate that it is personal and subjective), average and occasionally poor. These typically get few comments, but the comments they do get seem to be positive.
I think this is great - it's nice that the forum atmosphere is positive and supportive. There's nothing worse than forums full of unpleasantness and bickering. But, in my case I actually want serious critique, not just a confidence building thumbs up. The expertise on the forum has great potential to improve my skills and judgement, but only if people are honest.
So, my question - how do I encourage serious critique - do I just mark each post as such?
Today's offering (for serious critique, please):
Taken in Samos, Greece, a week or so ago.
Heavily cropped (probably less than 25% of original frame)
Background recoloured in PS (was grey)
Canon 7D with 500mm f/4 IS + 1.4x TC
f/9 (camera left on settings from photographing something else, I suspect!)
ISO 800
1/1600 sec
+2/3rd stop EV
Thanks for looking and for help with the question re: critique.
Ben
Re. critique, there's no easy answer and good' images inevitably end up getting more comments than lower quality images (daft as that is)!
Matt
You have an excellent capture here, good action and interesting behaviour with the insect being a serious plus. I like the diagonals as well, but however you look at it, Matt is right. If you want to use this commercially it is far to large a crop, you should be aiming to barely crop an image at all imo.
Sometimes I find it difficult to say when a shot is poor, because we have all been there and not everybody likes to hear that the shot they thought was brilliant is actually not all that clever. It is easier to say nothing than to upset people or appear rude or too clever.
I found that I have learned at least as much from what people said they liked about other people's great shots as I have from most of the C&C that I have received. Watch the forum closely and learn from what the photographers you most admire put up. There is more than one way to skin a cat, and there really is some great work on here that merits close study.
I hope that is some help.
you had loads of shutter speed for that shot
Very nice capture and well timed. its great to have that "Third" important element in a picture that makes it stand out from the crowd, the insect for example in yours. with a little more PP this could be lifted to give it alittle more POP.
Hope thay helps
Mark.G
I should have added in mitigation, that there is probably little else you could have done to get an image in these circumstances, so you end up with a distant record shot and there isn't really anything you can do afterwards. One of the most difficult things to teach aspiring and established wildlife photographers is when not to bother shooting.
Paul.
Hi Ben,
As already mentioned, the large crop and shooting angle have killed this. Nice bird though! Do they use regular perches lower down? Might be worth staking one out with some camo next time you are over there.
Cheers,
Lewis.
I like the shot for all its limitations, But do I like it for the subject matter or for the quality? If I am honest its the subject matter, I agree with Eric that its hard to criticise someones shots, I have learned more form looking at others shots and trying to emulate the quality than from the comments and critique that my shots received. When I go out to get a shot now I do one of two things, I accept that my shot may not be as technically good as it could be and I keep it as a record and an example of what I got wrong, or I bin it and try for better the next time. I then re-visit my record shots at a later date and if i THINK I've got better I then bin them. I think that we all have our own ideas about comp and cropping, its a personal thing. But if we have a lot of comments saying we've submitted a good shot then thats better than lots saying its rubbish.
Thanks all.
Ben