I was wondering what you might recommend in place of the Nikon speedlights. I've spent a lot of money on camera, lenses, filters, tripod, ballhead, etc., and now would like a more affordable flash that will do a similar job. I have a Nikon D300s, and imagine will move up to the Nikon D700s, when it comes out. Any thoughts or suggestions?
I haven't personally tried one yet but plan to in the near future, but Midwest Photo has an intriguing speedlight with the same power, though fewer features, for a lot less money than the SB-900. Check it out here...
Posted by Kent Staubus on June 12, 2010 at 6:44 PM
What do you want to do with the flash? Makes a big difference on what I'd suggest. Always, you match the gear to the use. Don't know what you're planning on doing with it.
Drew--
Flash you linked to is not a replacement for Nikon SB-900. It doesn't appear to be iTTL compatible, not compatible with CLS, and is manual exposure. If a manual flash will work for you, I'd suggest buying Nikon SB-25. You can get three of those for about the same money. Buy some RF-602 units to plug into them and then you can have some fun.
Kent in SD
Posted by Drew Fulton on June 12, 2010 at 10:32 PM
Thanks Kent. I haven't looked at them closely but was intrigued by a very brief glance when they were announced a couple weeks back. I assumed it didn't come with all the bells and whistles but wasn't sure what was included and what wasn't. I've got all the power I need, a handful of SB-800s, but was curious when those came out.
Thanks Drew, thanks Kent for your replies. To reply to your query, Kent, I guess I'm a relative newbie in this picture-taking business so let me see if I can respond to it in the way I think you meant it. Often, the people pictures I take with the built-in Nikon D300s show up yellow. I want to be able to take pics of people at gatherings that usually take place in low light surroundings, with a hope of ultimately moving into doing portraits, perhaps even professionally. I am not thinking of any big studio work, with multiple set-ups. I guess, I'd like it to be small enough so that it's not too cumbersome to carry with all the other things I may carry when traveling, yet still have enough options that give me some freedom to play with light when I'm taking pictures at the home turf.
Ken Rockwell did highly recommend the Nikon SB-400, which is about $120 (affordable); and the SB-600, which is $230 (almost twice as much, so, less affordable, but has the wireless capability). Probably there's no speed light the size of the 400 with the capabilities of the 600 . . .
Posted by Kent Staubus on June 13, 2010 at 1:38 PM
For flash to be really useful, I think it has to be used off camera. That leaves you with basically three routes: CLS, TTL cable, or CyberSyncs. CLS is very expensive, has limited range (<30 ft.), and requires line of sight. Advantage is the Nikon system does work fairly well. TTL cable is cheap, but disadvantage is short range. OK for portraits. CyberSyncs or RF-602 give range out to 150 yards, don't require line of sight, but are manual flash. If you get really serious about outdoor portraits, nothing beats a monolight. It gives you the capability to over power the sun. Unless you are just wanting to boost the power of the pop-up flash for some fill, I'd skip the SB-400. The SB-600 is probably the best value for a Nikon iTTL flash for simple use. A manual flash like the Yon Nuo 460 would work OK for simple portraits, especially if coupled with a trigger. The problem with small 4AA flash is they don't have a lot of power, especially outdoors. You can start to notice this when you use the light modifiers commonly used for portraits. Hank can probably tell you a lot more about that. My suggestion would be to buy an SB-600 to start out with. It can work off camera using CLS, has enough power for simple stuff, and will hold it's value a lot better than your camera will.
In your current uses, here's a very useful tip/strategy:
Meter your setting without the strobe and adjust the ISO upwards till you get a comfortable working shutter speed and aperture. That takes a huge load off your strobe (important with small ones or big scenes) while letting the strobe work as "fill." Areas beyond the reach of the strobe will be properly exposed, while within it's range your strobe need only fill shadows. I typically set the strobe for -1.
Now set the camera on P. Sure you can shoot on M or A or S, but as your shooting position and direction changes, it's really hard to keep up with setting changes while also following the action. Matrix metering and P are going to be right so often that it virtually turns your camera into a "care free" point and shoot while returning excellent results.
The exceptions are lots of sky in a shot, or someone standing in front of a window in indoor shoots. That's when you resort to the +/- exposure comp wheel on the camera (and NOT the strobe!). You should be checking your LCD and making necessary +/- adjustments anyway, but in a nutshell with lots of sky or a big window you might have to go to +2 or so to overcome the brightness, but meanwhile your strobe will follow right along with your aperture settings for fill.
BTW- Don't worry about going to high ISO's on your 300. Results are vastly superior to our D2X's, to the point that our "backup" D300's are our principle tool in low light.
I've posted images from this industrial shoot before, but it's a perfect example. I was shooting from the small front passenger window of a float plane in low light very early in the morning. The plane couldn't fly slower than about 80 MPH while circling with one wing down for my shots and I had to shoot at ISO 3200 to manage 1/125 shutter speeds. Virtually every shot with the D300 was a keeper in terms of exposure and focus, while I got zero, zip, nada, nill usable shots from the D2X. Part of the problem was that the VR and AF weren't as fast with the D2X, but image quality was comparatively terrible at such high ISO's, too.
Posted by Kent Staubus on June 13, 2010 at 9:00 PM
So Hank, just how big a flash were you using for fill for the above photo? I thought I was pushing it by lighting up freight trains. I agree about using higher ISO on D300. I routinely shoot my night scenes at ISO 800 and will quickly go to 1600 if needed.
Kent in SD
Posted by Ay Ling HAN on June 13, 2010 at 11:43 PM
Alright, both of of you, Kent and Hank, you convinced me to get the SB600. I'll sigh for the savings and expense to get it, but, I'm sure I'll be happy when I take the pictures afterwards! Thanks so much for your clear explanations. I really appreciate it!
I think you'll be happiest with that choice in the end. Keep us posted as you break it in, Ling Han. We're ready to help if you run into hassles.
And Kent, how I wished for a strobe! Imagine my spirits as I climbed onto the plane a half hour before "sunrise" to meet the tug and barge offshore for great light and a stunning Kodiak background, and meanwhile the cloud layer dropped and showers pattered on the boat harbor.
If I recall my SB manual correctly it says to shoot only in M or S so that it falls within shutter range. In my shooting I don't use P as a rule. Is it a case of you match the ISO to prevailing light conditions so that the flash doesn't fall out of shutter range?
We match the ISO to prevailing light on behalf of the areas beyond the reach of the strobe, in order to avoid the "flashlight in the dark" effect from the strobe. If you set the camera on P, it automatically defaults for strobe-compatible shutter speeds so there's no issue there at all. We're so impressed with Nikon's strobe system (it's more than just the strobe, including interaction with the body) that it's chased us back from Canon or any other gear every time we've strayed from the fold. We're just too dependent on the strobe in our work to use anything else. Second best is a distant second in our experience, and the most the others can manage is slow catchup.
I did a quick search of my files from last week, and I think this illustrates my point fairly well. Dull, dull, dull photo for a nature site, but it's pretty representative of the challenges of flash even in industrial photography.
The sun had come out suddenly, and I forgot to change from 400 ISO. That should have driven the shutter speeds right through the roof and precluded strobe use except with smaller apertures than I could manage with that lens. Shooting on P with the strobe set for -1 is so versatile, I didn't have to remember to change camera settings. Or fiddle with anything but the zoom ring and shutter release 100 feet up in the air!!! Just concentrate on your subject and keep shooting. Priceless!
Alright, both of of you, Kent and Hank, you convinced me to get the SB600. I'll sigh for the savings and expense to get it, but, I'm sure I'll be happy when I take the pictures afterwards! Thanks so much for your clear explanations. I really appreciate it!
No one mentioned checking out Strobist yet. For any up and coming photographers (and pros!) who are learning about flash and strobes, this website is a must. Wealth of experience, tips, DIY, and generally fun to read stuff. You will find many cheap tricks for your lighting needs without crashing your check book. Check them out:
http://strobist.blogspot.com/
You may have to walk around the site a bit to find what you are looking for...odds are you will detour to something neat before getting back on focus
Troup
Discussion
19 replieshttp://www.mpex.com/browse.cfm/4,14648.html
Drew
Drew--
Flash you linked to is not a replacement for Nikon SB-900. It doesn't appear to be iTTL compatible, not compatible with CLS, and is manual exposure. If a manual flash will work for you, I'd suggest buying Nikon SB-25. You can get three of those for about the same money. Buy some RF-602 units to plug into them and then you can have some fun.
Kent in SD
Drew
Ken Rockwell did highly recommend the Nikon SB-400, which is about $120 (affordable); and the SB-600, which is $230 (almost twice as much, so, less affordable, but has the wireless capability). Probably there's no speed light the size of the 400 with the capabilities of the 600 . . .
Kent in SD
In your current uses, here's a very useful tip/strategy:
Meter your setting without the strobe and adjust the ISO upwards till you get a comfortable working shutter speed and aperture. That takes a huge load off your strobe (important with small ones or big scenes) while letting the strobe work as "fill." Areas beyond the reach of the strobe will be properly exposed, while within it's range your strobe need only fill shadows. I typically set the strobe for -1.
Now set the camera on P. Sure you can shoot on M or A or S, but as your shooting position and direction changes, it's really hard to keep up with setting changes while also following the action. Matrix metering and P are going to be right so often that it virtually turns your camera into a "care free" point and shoot while returning excellent results.
The exceptions are lots of sky in a shot, or someone standing in front of a window in indoor shoots. That's when you resort to the +/- exposure comp wheel on the camera (and NOT the strobe!). You should be checking your LCD and making necessary +/- adjustments anyway, but in a nutshell with lots of sky or a big window you might have to go to +2 or so to overcome the brightness, but meanwhile your strobe will follow right along with your aperture settings for fill.
BTW- Don't worry about going to high ISO's on your 300. Results are vastly superior to our D2X's, to the point that our "backup" D300's are our principle tool in low light.
I've posted images from this industrial shoot before, but it's a perfect example. I was shooting from the small front passenger window of a float plane in low light very early in the morning. The plane couldn't fly slower than about 80 MPH while circling with one wing down for my shots and I had to shoot at ISO 3200 to manage 1/125 shutter speeds. Virtually every shot with the D300 was a keeper in terms of exposure and focus, while I got zero, zip, nada, nill usable shots from the D2X. Part of the problem was that the VR and AF weren't as fast with the D2X, but image quality was comparatively terrible at such high ISO's, too.
Kent in SD
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And Kent, how I wished for a strobe! Imagine my spirits as I climbed onto the plane a half hour before "sunrise" to meet the tug and barge offshore for great light and a stunning Kodiak background, and meanwhile the cloud layer dropped and showers pattered on the boat harbor.
If I recall my SB manual correctly it says to shoot only in M or S so that it falls within shutter range. In my shooting I don't use P as a rule. Is it a case of you match the ISO to prevailing light conditions so that the flash doesn't fall out of shutter range?
The sun had come out suddenly, and I forgot to change from 400 ISO. That should have driven the shutter speeds right through the roof and precluded strobe use except with smaller apertures than I could manage with that lens. Shooting on P with the strobe set for -1 is so versatile, I didn't have to remember to change camera settings. Or fiddle with anything but the zoom ring and shutter release 100 feet up in the air!!!
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File the info away. It will be useful to you.
Btw, I have a Chinese name, so my first name is actually Ay Ling /I-Leeng/. Understandably, it gets confusing to most people I meet! { 8 - )
I love this forum! So much expertise and so much generosity of expertise! It was the best holiday present to me ever!
Btw, I have a Chinese name, so my first name is actually Ay Ling /I-Leeng/. Understandably, it gets confusing to most people I meet! { 8 - )
I love this forum! So much expertise and so much generosity of expertise! It was the best holiday present to me ever!
http://strobist.blogspot.com/
You may have to walk around the site a bit to find what you are looking for...odds are you will detour to something neat before getting back on focus
Troup
Thank you ALL for your thoughtful replies and explanations! I really appreciate it.
Ay Ling