I thought I had this under control, but suddenly what I see in Camera RAW is much more saturated than what I see in PS, then when I go to save for web and devices, the over-saturation reappears. Any idea what's going on here?
Pete D.
Posted by David Bostedo on July 20, 2010 at 12:28 AM
Total guess here, but my suspicion is that you have the ACR settings on 16-bit and a large color space, but save-for-web is saving as an 8-bit file, and possibly in a different color space. I'm not quite sure how that would cause the over-normal-over saturation steps, but it's all I can think of that would cause differences purely between
When you view it in Camera RAW, are you viewing the RAW file with your ACR settings? Or are you viewing the output TIFF/JPG?
If you open the file in ACR, with the output type set to JPG, and save a new file - does that new file look the same in PS as in ACR?
Now when you save for web, then open that file in PS, does it still look the same?
First thing in your post-processing, convert the profile (in PS, Edit -> Convert to Profile) and select sRGB from the popup menu. That way the colors are more likely to match when you view it through your web browser.
Photoshop (CS5 64 bit) uses Adobe RGB (1998) as the working space.
I am opening an NEF file (RAW from a Nikon D200)
Bridge converts file to Adobe RGB 1998, 16 bit
(The colors in Bridge look just like what appears in CS5)..so far so good.
The only changes I make in CS5 are to burn down some bright areas and clone some spots.
Change image size for web posting.
within CS5 use image>mode>8 bit/channel (note RGB color is checked - no option for sRGB)
within CS5 use save for web & devices (convert to sRGB checked, Preview at "Internet Standard RGB (No Color Management)"
The JPEG preview is wickedly saturated.
Any suggestions?
I've been doing it this way (as far as I know, for a year without problem).
Try converting the 8 bit image file to sRGB (Edit->Convert to Profile) and then using the File->Save As... dialog instead of 'Save for Web'. I never use 'S.f.W.' because of strange occurences like the one you describe.
Posted by Miles Morgan on July 22, 2010 at 11:04 AM
Concur. I've seen WEIRD things happen with "Save for Web", so I always use "Save As" and never get a shift.
perhaps a clue - using Edit-> Convert to Profile causes the color shift. I'm sure I've done this in the past earlier operating system, earlier Photoshop and their was no obvious color change....
Pete D.
Posted by David Bostedo on August 3, 2010 at 8:42 AM
Edit-> Convert to Profile
Pete - Whether or not this causes a color shift is somewhat image dependent. You're going from a larger color space to a smaller one. If the original image has a lot of colors outside of the smaller sRGB gamut, they have to be mapped in to sRG, and this can cause shifts. Could you try an image that you've converted before in older PS versions and see if you see a larger shift in the newer version?
Pete, I don't believe a 64-bit OS would be responsible for what you are seeing. It is possible that the sRGB ICM color profile is was somehow corrupted. The file name is sRGB Color Space Profile.icm
You may be able to copy the file from the PS install disc, or someone could you send you a copy. If you do this, I suggest you rename the original file to something like sRGB Color Space Profile.icm.old before you install the new profile file. That way, if the new file doesn't work, you can revert back to the old one.
I really don't know if the foregoing will make any difference, but it's worth trying, in my opinion.
Why work in Adobe (1998) when I'm either going to post to the web (sRGB) or send to a printer (I read they convert to sRGB with their internal software anyhow)?
Pete D.
Posted by David Bostedo on August 3, 2010 at 5:43 PM
I read they convert to sRGB with their internal software anyhow
That's the part that's not right Pete. Printers have been able to print colors outside of sRGB for a while now (at least the last 3 or 4 years since I started doing any real printing), and many can print colors larger than AdobeRGB. Of course, this is somewhat printer ink and paper dependent.
What you might have heard is that printers always convert to 8-bit before printing, but that's changing as well (more recently) with real 16-bit drivers coming out (although the hardware could still pose limitations).
All of that being said, sometimes I think a lot of photographers would be happy just shooting sRGB JPGs. It doesn't always make much difference and it's up to each person to decide if the difference it makes for them is worth it. So it helps to understand the color spaces, file types, and bit depth - but it doesn't mean you have to use the biggest/widest/largest of each. (Personally, I usually convert to JPG from RAW, rather than TIFF or PSD, and I'm well aware of what the potential drawbacks are.)
Discussion
11 repliesPete D.
When you view it in Camera RAW, are you viewing the RAW file with your ACR settings? Or are you viewing the output TIFF/JPG?
If you open the file in ACR, with the output type set to JPG, and save a new file - does that new file look the same in PS as in ACR?
Now when you save for web, then open that file in PS, does it still look the same?
I am opening an NEF file (RAW from a Nikon D200)
Bridge converts file to Adobe RGB 1998, 16 bit
(The colors in Bridge look just like what appears in CS5)..so far so good.
The only changes I make in CS5 are to burn down some bright areas and clone some spots.
Change image size for web posting.
within CS5 use image>mode>8 bit/channel (note RGB color is checked - no option for sRGB)
within CS5 use save for web & devices (convert to sRGB checked, Preview at "Internet Standard RGB (No Color Management)"
The JPEG preview is wickedly saturated.
Any suggestions?
I've been doing it this way (as far as I know, for a year without problem).
Pete D.
Pete D.
Pete - Whether or not this causes a color shift is somewhat image dependent. You're going from a larger color space to a smaller one. If the original image has a lot of colors outside of the smaller sRGB gamut, they have to be mapped in to sRG, and this can cause shifts. Could you try an image that you've converted before in older PS versions and see if you see a larger shift in the newer version?
You may be able to copy the file from the PS install disc, or someone could you send you a copy. If you do this, I suggest you rename the original file to something like sRGB Color Space Profile.icm.old before you install the new profile file. That way, if the new file doesn't work, you can revert back to the old one.
I really don't know if the foregoing will make any difference, but it's worth trying, in my opinion.
--P
Pete D.
That's the part that's not right Pete. Printers have been able to print colors outside of sRGB for a while now (at least the last 3 or 4 years since I started doing any real printing), and many can print colors larger than AdobeRGB. Of course, this is somewhat printer ink and paper dependent.
What you might have heard is that printers always convert to 8-bit before printing, but that's changing as well (more recently) with real 16-bit drivers coming out (although the hardware could still pose limitations).
All of that being said, sometimes I think a lot of photographers would be happy just shooting sRGB JPGs. It doesn't always make much difference and it's up to each person to decide if the difference it makes for them is worth it. So it helps to understand the color spaces, file types, and bit depth - but it doesn't mean you have to use the biggest/widest/largest of each. (Personally, I usually convert to JPG from RAW, rather than TIFF or PSD, and I'm well aware of what the potential drawbacks are.)