Posted by Luke Ormand on July 21, 2010 at 10:43 PM
I am submitting a large file for a competition as part of the semi-finalist stage. The RAW image has a crooked horizon (about 2.8 degrees). The image I submitted for the competition had a corrected horizon. A .TIFF file can be submitted and the instructions state:
"Normal Processing of digital RAW image files to create the Tiff file is acceptable, whether it is done in layers or not, and must reflect the natural color, light and contrast at the time of exposure. Any digital manipulation beyond levels, curves, color correction, contrast and brightness MUST be fully disclosed (apart from dust removal), including, but not limited to: digital stitching, cloning, airbrushing of any kind, dodging and burning, alterations made to the scene to add or remove elements etc. Original "in camera" RAW files must be delivered without processing"
So, do I correct the horizon and disclose that I did so? Do I leave it as is? Do I submit BOTH the corrected horizon .TIFF and the untouched RAW?
Time is of the essence on this request... thanks for the input!
When you have to starighten a horizon nearly 3 degrees, then a goodly amount of cropping must take place. Surely, cropping an image is acceptable as 'normal processing'.
Secondly, 'in camera RAW files' have to be processed by the converter to a certain degree in order to even be seen. In other words, there's no such a thing as an 'untouched RAW file'. I would advise doing your cropping in the RAW processor and then tell them about it.
Posted by Lon Overacker on July 21, 2010 at 11:37 PM
Luke,
Follow the instructions the best that you can. Although they didn't explicitly say "leveling horizons" as a "digital manipulation," it would probably be best to disclose all your processing per their instructions. Having said that, it's very unclear to me if they expect you to submit a tif file and the RAW, but they state the RAW, unprocessed file must be delivered. EDIT: As John just mentioned, that doesn't make sense - by default there has to be processing to be able to even email a "RAW" image.
Reading this, I would be very curious to know the other "terms and conditions." Are you waving any rights? Are they assuming or claiming any rights and are you agreeing to these terms simply by submitting? It seems odd that they want you to send the RAW, unprocessed file? Most contests usually request a certain file of a fixed dimension or size to make it fair for all submitters. I would make sure you review their terms closely. In other words, there may be language in there that states something along the lines: "You agree that XYZ Co. retains the right to use your image in any way they see fit to be used for promotion or any future use without further compensation. The photographer does retain full copyright." yada, yada, yada. In other words, you've now submitted a 12MB raw file that they can use at their own discretion without any further compensation to you except if you happen to win a prize.
Anyway, don't mean to go on about that, just beware of the fine print. If you have questions you should call or email them directly.
Hope this helps.
Lon
Posted by Luke Ormand on July 21, 2010 at 11:46 PM
Lon,
I sent you an e-mail, but to others reading this there is a defined size for the image submission which actually I have a question about also now that I think about it!
It calls for an image 4800 pixels on the largest side @ 400 ppi. My D300s has a resolution of 4288.
I upsized it to 4800 @ 400 ppi and it looks fine. I'm not one for understanding how all of this works, so any explanation would be great. The document sent to me states if this resolution cannot be achieved to simply submit the largest .tiff possible or a RAW.
I wouldn't consider straightening a horizon as a form of digital manipulation. I would send the corrected Tiff and the untouched RAW and not mention the straightening.
"I wouldn't consider straightening a horizon as a form of digital manipulation. I would send the corrected Tiff and the untouched RAW and not mention the straightening."
I agree that would be the most normal thing to do.
Just makes me wary that they want such a large file and a RAW file in addition to that. Personally, I would be so hesitant to send a RAW file- and I certainly wouldn't send the original but a copy instead. My caution light is flashing.
Posted by Luke Ormand on July 27, 2010 at 10:06 PM
Catherine,
Thank you for your concern but it's Nature's Best... they are pretty reputable :-)
Posted by David Bostedo on July 28, 2010 at 12:39 AM
And of course, it's not possible to end anything BUT a copy of the RAW file. The way I read it, Luke, was that they want everyone's processed file and untouched RAW file (both) in order to "validate" the processed file.
And I really wish things like "4800 pixels on the largest side @ 400 ppi" would go away, since the ppi doesn't mean anything in this case. You'd think such a large prestigious competition would get that kind of thing right.
Posted by Rodney Ninow on July 28, 2010 at 12:44 AM
Why on earth do they need such a high resolution file? Are they going to make prints? If it is for online presentation, 1200 pixels is MORE than enough. It is highly suspect if you ask me.
Posted by Nate Chappell on July 28, 2010 at 12:50 AM
They do make 6 foot prints of the winning photos and they want to check to see how a large version will look.
Ditto what Nate says... hopefully they will end up using it for that big 6 foot print :-D and I'll be mugging for the camera right next to it
Posted by David Bostedo on July 29, 2010 at 10:27 AM
And if you win it will show up in the Smithsonian in DC and I can go see it. It's always neat to see photos there every year by folks from this site. Good luck Luke!
Discussion
12 replies"Normal Processing of digital RAW image files to create the Tiff file is acceptable, whether it is done in layers or not, and must reflect the natural color, light and contrast at the time of exposure. Any digital manipulation beyond levels, curves, color correction, contrast and brightness MUST be fully disclosed (apart from dust removal), including, but not limited to: digital stitching, cloning, airbrushing of any kind, dodging and burning, alterations made to the scene to add or remove elements etc. Original "in camera" RAW files must be delivered without processing"
So, do I correct the horizon and disclose that I did so? Do I leave it as is? Do I submit BOTH the corrected horizon .TIFF and the untouched RAW?
Time is of the essence on this request... thanks for the input!
- Luke
Secondly, 'in camera RAW files' have to be processed by the converter to a certain degree in order to even be seen. In other words, there's no such a thing as an 'untouched RAW file'. I would advise doing your cropping in the RAW processor and then tell them about it.
Follow the instructions the best that you can. Although they didn't explicitly say "leveling horizons" as a "digital manipulation," it would probably be best to disclose all your processing per their instructions. Having said that, it's very unclear to me if they expect you to submit a tif file and the RAW, but they state the RAW, unprocessed file must be delivered. EDIT: As John just mentioned, that doesn't make sense - by default there has to be processing to be able to even email a "RAW" image.
Reading this, I would be very curious to know the other "terms and conditions." Are you waving any rights? Are they assuming or claiming any rights and are you agreeing to these terms simply by submitting? It seems odd that they want you to send the RAW, unprocessed file? Most contests usually request a certain file of a fixed dimension or size to make it fair for all submitters. I would make sure you review their terms closely. In other words, there may be language in there that states something along the lines: "You agree that XYZ Co. retains the right to use your image in any way they see fit to be used for promotion or any future use without further compensation. The photographer does retain full copyright." yada, yada, yada. In other words, you've now submitted a 12MB raw file that they can use at their own discretion without any further compensation to you except if you happen to win a prize.
Anyway, don't mean to go on about that, just beware of the fine print. If you have questions you should call or email them directly.
Hope this helps.
Lon
I sent you an e-mail, but to others reading this there is a defined size for the image submission which actually I have a question about also now that I think about it!
It calls for an image 4800 pixels on the largest side @ 400 ppi. My D300s has a resolution of 4288.
I upsized it to 4800 @ 400 ppi and it looks fine. I'm not one for understanding how all of this works, so any explanation would be great. The document sent to me states if this resolution cannot be achieved to simply submit the largest .tiff possible or a RAW.
- Luke
I agree that would be the most normal thing to do.
Thank you for your concern but it's Nature's Best... they are pretty reputable :-)
And I really wish things like "4800 pixels on the largest side @ 400 ppi" would go away, since the ppi doesn't mean anything in this case. You'd think such a large prestigious competition would get that kind of thing right.