Posted by Howard Cihak on August 10, 2010 at 5:41 AM
I've decided I don't want to fuss with charts, etc, to calculate the hyperfocal distance. I'm resigned to getting an iPod and downloading an appropriate app for that.
But that's raised another question. Obviously, there are other useful apps that a landscape shooter can use. The Photographer's Ephemeris, for example. What I'm wondering is whether any of the apps will only work on the iPhone and not on the iPod (other than those apps designed to optimize the iPhone camera and its pictures).
I really don't have much use for an iPhone and would prefer to avoid the expense if I can. Any insights would be greatly appreciated.
Posted by Kah Kit Yoong on August 10, 2010 at 7:59 AM
iPod Touch is basically an iphone without the phone so all the apps should work fine.
Posted by David Bostedo on August 10, 2010 at 8:56 AM
One little thing to note, the iPod Touch speaker is quite a bit softer than the iPhone. So if any app you want involves broadcasting sound, the iPhone would be much better. And of course, apps that require voice input won't work on the iPod as it doesn't have a microphone (though accessory one's are available).
And depending on whether or not you want to get a new cell phone, an Android phone is another option, assuming the Android marketplace has the apps you want.
Posted by Mel Ladewig on August 10, 2010 at 9:30 AM
I have both. I bought the ipod touch for myself, not interested in the extra $720 in service fees for the phone. I'm in an iPhone trial group for my work (which started later). I work in IT and we're testing business oriented apps on the phone for a year to see if it makes sense to transition our system from blackberry to iPhone.
The ipod touch does miss out on a bit more than the phone. It doesn't have GPS built in, so GPS enabled apps don't work. But I suppose photographer's ephemeris should work well. And mine doesn't have a camera, but I think the new one does. It does have maps built in, but you need a wireless hotspot to use it well. And since it isn't connected to a cell network, it only has data connectivity when you can find a wireless hotspot.
The iPod touch does work fine with a mic, and I think the new one has a mic built in. The iPhone headset will provide a microphone for the touch.
If you already pay for a smart phone, then the iPhone would be a natural progression. If you're a cheap fella like me with a basic cell phone, no text plan, no data plan, then you'd go with the iPod
Posted by Howard Cihak on August 10, 2010 at 1:08 PM
Mel, you and I are of a kind. I pay $30/month and rarely use up my minutes. It's for urgent outgoing calls and no incoming. So, an iPhone would, for me, be an unjustifiable and ridiculous extravagance. Some might say, considering all I've spent on wife, cameras, and lenses, just how many of those does a man need?
Posted by John Mumaw on August 10, 2010 at 2:47 PM
A true cheapskate (such as yours truly) simply uses the free and simple hyperfocal chart available from NPN here.
Hasn't failed me yet, really no 'fuss' involved and never runs outta juice!
Posted by Paul DeCesare on August 10, 2010 at 4:15 PM
Howard,
OK, so here's a few thoughts from the other side of the stadium (oh boy, you guys are going to think I work for Apple after this sales pitch I throw at ya!)... just some thoughts to ponder on what the positives would be if you went to an iPhone. I'm afraid this is going to be a long one! :
1. Once you buy your first iPhone, all upgrades are free. Explanation: You can resell your old iPhone for more than you paid when upgrade time comes. We bought 3G 16GB iPhones in December 2008 for $299, so $955 with tax total. Sold mine in 12/2009 for $379 on eBay to get the $299 3GS (another AT&T perk: main line can upgrade after 12 months!). THEN we were allowed to all upgrade to the iPhone 4 in June at $299 a piece... so I sold my 3GS for $395 and the two older 3G's that were my wife and son's for $300 a piece (all were mint condition of course). People buy iPhones without contracts all the time, worldwide. Outcome: all new iPhones are free. I'm not sure a 120% resale value is common with Droids and Blackberries.
2. Data Plan: it's only $15 per month now for the 200MB plan, the mandatory $30 is gone. $25 gets you 2GB plus the option to tether your laptop.
3. iPhone 4 replaces several devices in my life:
-Compact Digital: my 5D MKII w/24-70mm gets heavy once in a while, be nice to have a standard little digital compact camera on me all the time. All iPhone cameras have STUNK until now. The iPhone 4's 5mp camera is quite good finally, and now has a flash. Then you can crop and saturate and sharpen all you want with the free Photoshop iPhone app. Other great post apps are available too. I can email or text images to people on the fly. I was in Home Depot to get something my wife sent me for (she has some physical issues from a car accident long ago, can't travel much), but there were two choices. I emailed the two pics, she chose what she needed, done and easy. As I blather on about having an iPhone with the data plan, take note on how much TIME in my life is saved. Other SmartPhones will too, but if you want iPhone apps, this is your tool.
-Flip HD: Don't need that, have a 720p HD video camera now in the iPhone 4. Flash turns into an always-on LED if needed. You can compress video and email it or upload to YouTube on the fly. Application: I was in AZ searching out a new home while my wife was packing in OH. I emailed her video of the homes we were searching and of the streets/neighborhood. Found the perfect house in ONE AFTERNOON while she was 1900 miles away, and we moved right into it the following week, no interim hotel room needed. Flip can't email video. That right there was a family/life application that was worth the price of admission.
-GPS: TWO great solutions here... one is the built in Maps app, where you can see a map with a blue ball (you) moving as you drive. That was super helpful when driving neighborhoods to see what things looked like, and knowing where I was at all times. But its search function is crazy... type in a store name and a zip code and the pin drops in 3 seconds. Touch the pin, touch the phone number, and you're calling the place within 10 seconds. Two more taps gets you directions drawn on the map. In fact, touching any address in your phone book maps it instantly. GPS knows where you are so you never have to type that. The second solution is a $4.99 app that turns the iPhone into a turn-by-turn real GPS unit. I have both but the built-in app works great.
4. Full blown 32GB iPod: speaks for itself! And when you rip tunes from your CDs, the AAC iTunes compression sounds WAY better than MP3s. Playlists are a breeze to make and sync in iTunes also. But the Shazam app really makes it: You hear a song in a store, restaurant, etc, so you fire up Shazam and let it "listen" for 30 seconds, and 95% of the time it finds the song in the internet database. One tap and you can buy it and download it from iTunes and it's in your collection. Too easy. It recognized a Norman Brown jazz tune from the crummy speakers on the radio in a barber shop... I was impressed. So was the barber.
Of course, you can run the apps you found for iPhone/iPod which is the point of you searching this all out. There are a few built-in or paid-for apps that use a data connection that I think are worth the extra $15 per month, but see what you think:
-Obvious ones that allow you instant access are Stocks, Weather Channel, Amazon, Ebay, PayPal, US Bank/Citibank/Chase/Bank of America, Fedex, UPS, USPS, Newegg, J&R, Fox/CNN/whatever, ESPN, StateFarm, NationWide, DropBox, Twitter, Walgreens, Pandora Radio, you name it. But there are some special ones that I really like:
-Lynda.com is huge, I subscribe monthly and use their app to watch training vids for Photoshop, Premiere, After Effects, etc, not to mention the plethora of training that people post on Vimeo and, when I absolutely have to go on there, YouTube. If I have to wait somewhere, IE the motor vehicles office, etc, the time passes like a bullet with no "waiting stress" now.
-RedLaser: I was in Costco and saw something that I normally buy on Amazon. It looked cheaper but I wan't sure. SO, I fired up the RedLaser app which turns the iPhone camera into a scanner... scanned the UPC and in 5 seconds I had the item up on Amazon. I could have even ordered it from Amazon, but the Costco price was 40% cheaper that day with a coupon. Closed the phone and bought the item in the store. Saved me money and took away an internet sale and gave it to the local business.
-SwipeIt: I'm starting to do real estate photography. It's best to get paid on the spot with real estate folks. SwipeIt is an app you run while you have your iPhone plugged into a mini $120 card swiper. Transaction done in seconds. Anybody in business like this count the time you spent sending out invoices and making calls for payments? Yuck. This takes care of it!
-AroundMe: this app is killer, especially in a new state... using the iPhone's GPS radio, you and the fam can be out and want to know "what kind of restaurants are around us?" or "what sporting goods stores are nearby?" (or gas stations or post offices, etc)< and AroundMe delivers exactly that. Huge timesaver.
Obviously you have all email and web access with the Safari browser as with most phones, and in fact, most phones may have all this stuff, but you certainly have the biggest choice of GOOD apps added to a device that has a really really nice user interface. And the SCREEN, have you seen it on the 4? 326 dpi! You can't see the pixels even with reading glasses, it looks amazing. HD video on this device is superb looking. You should see the iFotoGuides by Bret Edge, they look amazing. There's another iPhone plus, having all of that info right in my hand when I head up to Grand Canyon to shoot. For photography, the Sunrise/Sunset app is a must, you can find out the times anywhere in the world for any date, even in the future. Star Walk is excellent too if you need to know what's in the night sky.
Sorry to make this so long, I just wanted to throw some light on what the extra $15/month data plan gains you, specifically on the iPhone since that's the platform you're researching. In the end you're really paying for convenience, but one big argument in favor of the iPhone is that you only need one device in your life which is nice, and the user interface is so well designed that you don't need a manual to use the phone (ha, more like Micro-Mac with a phone attached). And the support base is huge, it's Tres Chic to write an iPhone app now, which we gain from daily.
Yikes, I'd better get back to work! Thanks for listening!
Posted by Howard Cihak on August 10, 2010 at 5:45 PM
John, I admit to being cheap, but I'm definitely not in your league, amigo.
Paul, I may cave into getting an iPod, but my assistant at work gave up on the iPhone because of the cost in spite of how much he liked it. Thanks anyway for the sales pitch. Give my regards to Steve Jobs when you see him.
I've been teetering, but an incident this past week settled it for me. Three of us set out for several days of bear photography in a remote location, but discovered upon arriving that none of us had packed a bird book. One of the party had the iPod ap for birding, including sounds.
That settled it for me. What a neat, useful ap for outdoor enthusiasts. If iPhone had it, that's okay. But I've got lots more use for the ap than I do for a new phone, so iPod it is for this kid.
Posted by Paul DeCesare on August 10, 2010 at 11:31 PM
LOL! No problem Howard, it wasn't SUPPOSED to be a sales pitch, just a "here's what you can do" kinda thing... kinda... sorta...
Yes, Hank, apps run on both, it's just WAY cheaper to run an iPod (i.e. FREE). The app was probably iBird and it's fantastic, but I think it sets you back $30. On a PC that's not a lot of cash, but for an iPod, that's like spending fifty grand, lol!
Posted by Peter Barnes on August 12, 2010 at 1:57 AM
Howard,
The big difference for me between the iPhone and an iPod touch is the GPS unit that is in the first and not in the second. I resisted the whole expensive smart phone thing for a long time, but I now I have an iPhone, and I wonder how I lived my life before. The Photographers Empheris is a great app, made even greater on the iPhone as it can use the GPS hardware to know where you are and show the map for that location. The iPhone will geo-tag the pictures you take with it if you let it. You can use a navigation app to track your movements and use the data to geo-tag photos you have taken with any other digital camera. Using GPS is free, and it works anywhere in the world! I think I have only touched the surface for what can be done with the combination of GPS and iPhone apps. Add to that the ability to get my email anywhere my cell service works - I am a convert. I just wish I had it on our trip to Europe in June - we did have my wife's dumb iPad, but without GPS it couldn't sort the where the f... are we issues that I now know my iPhone could have done effortlessly.
Posted by Peter Barnes on August 12, 2010 at 2:21 AM
Oh, and by the way, I have tried one DoF app, and have gone back to my piece of paper with a DoF chart on it. The one I bought was Dr DoF - not recommended. Is there a good DoF app out there?
Posted by Howard Cihak on August 16, 2010 at 3:51 AM
Well, wouldn't you just know it.
Now that I've reluctantly come to the conclusion that the iPhone 4 is my best bet (combines phone, compass, gps, and can use the apps I want), they're all sold out in the stores around here.
Posted by Brian Jackson on August 16, 2010 at 11:43 AM
iPod Touch is basically an iphone without the phone so all the apps should work fine.
I'd think of it as
"iPhone is basically a iPod Touch with a crappy phone service" :)
I went through 4 iPhones and my company has went through 50 or so until we returned them and switched to a Droid phone, not on AT&T. I don't see how people actually put up with that type of service. Drop call after dropped call. We travel all over the US and have the same issues where ever we go. If you stand perfectly still and don't move you might be able to have a 5 min conversion.
The iPhone has to be one of the coolest/greatest things I've ever played with, until you try to use it as a phone.
Posted by Howard Cihak on August 16, 2010 at 12:25 PM
Brian, I was concerned about that, so I did some research. I found out the "churn rate" (percentage of subscribers who drop service each year) for AT&T is 1.29% and for Verizon it's 1.27%. Somehow, I don't think 2/100th of a percent is enough to get excited about.
FWIW, I'd rather get a Droid phone if I could get any useful photo apps to run on it. They don't exist. Not yet anyway, and I could die waiting for that to happen. What's that everyone always tells the guy who's waiting for the next model before making his purchase? Think of all the pictures you could take (or miss) while you're waiting. I normally carry a cell phone, a compass, a GPS, and Hyperfocal charts. The iPhone will enable me to roll all that into one device and add an app that will tell me sunrise/set and moonrise/set times and directions.
Discussion
14 repliesBut that's raised another question. Obviously, there are other useful apps that a landscape shooter can use. The Photographer's Ephemeris, for example. What I'm wondering is whether any of the apps will only work on the iPhone and not on the iPod (other than those apps designed to optimize the iPhone camera and its pictures).
I really don't have much use for an iPhone and would prefer to avoid the expense if I can. Any insights would be greatly appreciated.
And depending on whether or not you want to get a new cell phone, an Android phone is another option, assuming the Android marketplace has the apps you want.
The ipod touch does miss out on a bit more than the phone. It doesn't have GPS built in, so GPS enabled apps don't work. But I suppose photographer's ephemeris should work well. And mine doesn't have a camera, but I think the new one does. It does have maps built in, but you need a wireless hotspot to use it well. And since it isn't connected to a cell network, it only has data connectivity when you can find a wireless hotspot.
The iPod touch does work fine with a mic, and I think the new one has a mic built in. The iPhone headset will provide a microphone for the touch.
If you already pay for a smart phone, then the iPhone would be a natural progression. If you're a cheap fella like me with a basic cell phone, no text plan, no data plan, then you'd go with the iPod
Hasn't failed me yet, really no 'fuss' involved and never runs outta juice!
OK, so here's a few thoughts from the other side of the stadium (oh boy, you guys are going to think I work for Apple after this sales pitch I throw at ya!)... just some thoughts to ponder on what the positives would be if you went to an iPhone. I'm afraid this is going to be a long one! :
1. Once you buy your first iPhone, all upgrades are free. Explanation: You can resell your old iPhone for more than you paid when upgrade time comes. We bought 3G 16GB iPhones in December 2008 for $299, so $955 with tax total. Sold mine in 12/2009 for $379 on eBay to get the $299 3GS (another AT&T perk: main line can upgrade after 12 months!). THEN we were allowed to all upgrade to the iPhone 4 in June at $299 a piece... so I sold my 3GS for $395 and the two older 3G's that were my wife and son's for $300 a piece (all were mint condition of course). People buy iPhones without contracts all the time, worldwide. Outcome: all new iPhones are free. I'm not sure a 120% resale value is common with Droids and Blackberries.
2. Data Plan: it's only $15 per month now for the 200MB plan, the mandatory $30 is gone. $25 gets you 2GB plus the option to tether your laptop.
3. iPhone 4 replaces several devices in my life:
-Compact Digital: my 5D MKII w/24-70mm gets heavy once in a while, be nice to have a standard little digital compact camera on me all the time. All iPhone cameras have STUNK until now. The iPhone 4's 5mp camera is quite good finally, and now has a flash. Then you can crop and saturate and sharpen all you want with the free Photoshop iPhone app. Other great post apps are available too. I can email or text images to people on the fly. I was in Home Depot to get something my wife sent me for (she has some physical issues from a car accident long ago, can't travel much), but there were two choices. I emailed the two pics, she chose what she needed, done and easy. As I blather on about having an iPhone with the data plan, take note on how much TIME in my life is saved. Other SmartPhones will too, but if you want iPhone apps, this is your tool.
-Flip HD: Don't need that, have a 720p HD video camera now in the iPhone 4. Flash turns into an always-on LED if needed. You can compress video and email it or upload to YouTube on the fly. Application: I was in AZ searching out a new home while my wife was packing in OH. I emailed her video of the homes we were searching and of the streets/neighborhood. Found the perfect house in ONE AFTERNOON while she was 1900 miles away, and we moved right into it the following week, no interim hotel room needed. Flip can't email video. That right there was a family/life application that was worth the price of admission.
-GPS: TWO great solutions here... one is the built in Maps app, where you can see a map with a blue ball (you) moving as you drive. That was super helpful when driving neighborhoods to see what things looked like, and knowing where I was at all times. But its search function is crazy... type in a store name and a zip code and the pin drops in 3 seconds. Touch the pin, touch the phone number, and you're calling the place within 10 seconds. Two more taps gets you directions drawn on the map. In fact, touching any address in your phone book maps it instantly. GPS knows where you are so you never have to type that. The second solution is a $4.99 app that turns the iPhone into a turn-by-turn real GPS unit. I have both but the built-in app works great.
4. Full blown 32GB iPod: speaks for itself! And when you rip tunes from your CDs, the AAC iTunes compression sounds WAY better than MP3s. Playlists are a breeze to make and sync in iTunes also. But the Shazam app really makes it: You hear a song in a store, restaurant, etc, so you fire up Shazam and let it "listen" for 30 seconds, and 95% of the time it finds the song in the internet database. One tap and you can buy it and download it from iTunes and it's in your collection. Too easy. It recognized a Norman Brown jazz tune from the crummy speakers on the radio in a barber shop... I was impressed. So was the barber.
Of course, you can run the apps you found for iPhone/iPod which is the point of you searching this all out. There are a few built-in or paid-for apps that use a data connection that I think are worth the extra $15 per month, but see what you think:
-Obvious ones that allow you instant access are Stocks, Weather Channel, Amazon, Ebay, PayPal, US Bank/Citibank/Chase/Bank of America, Fedex, UPS, USPS, Newegg, J&R, Fox/CNN/whatever, ESPN, StateFarm, NationWide, DropBox, Twitter, Walgreens, Pandora Radio, you name it. But there are some special ones that I really like:
-Lynda.com is huge, I subscribe monthly and use their app to watch training vids for Photoshop, Premiere, After Effects, etc, not to mention the plethora of training that people post on Vimeo and, when I absolutely have to go on there, YouTube. If I have to wait somewhere, IE the motor vehicles office, etc, the time passes like a bullet with no "waiting stress" now.
-RedLaser: I was in Costco and saw something that I normally buy on Amazon. It looked cheaper but I wan't sure. SO, I fired up the RedLaser app which turns the iPhone camera into a scanner... scanned the UPC and in 5 seconds I had the item up on Amazon. I could have even ordered it from Amazon, but the Costco price was 40% cheaper that day with a coupon. Closed the phone and bought the item in the store. Saved me money and took away an internet sale and gave it to the local business.
-SwipeIt: I'm starting to do real estate photography. It's best to get paid on the spot with real estate folks. SwipeIt is an app you run while you have your iPhone plugged into a mini $120 card swiper. Transaction done in seconds. Anybody in business like this count the time you spent sending out invoices and making calls for payments? Yuck. This takes care of it!
-AroundMe: this app is killer, especially in a new state... using the iPhone's GPS radio, you and the fam can be out and want to know "what kind of restaurants are around us?" or "what sporting goods stores are nearby?" (or gas stations or post offices, etc)< and AroundMe delivers exactly that. Huge timesaver.
Obviously you have all email and web access with the Safari browser as with most phones, and in fact, most phones may have all this stuff, but you certainly have the biggest choice of GOOD apps added to a device that has a really really nice user interface. And the SCREEN, have you seen it on the 4? 326 dpi! You can't see the pixels even with reading glasses, it looks amazing. HD video on this device is superb looking. You should see the iFotoGuides by Bret Edge, they look amazing. There's another iPhone plus, having all of that info right in my hand when I head up to Grand Canyon to shoot. For photography, the Sunrise/Sunset app is a must, you can find out the times anywhere in the world for any date, even in the future. Star Walk is excellent too if you need to know what's in the night sky.
Sorry to make this so long, I just wanted to throw some light on what the extra $15/month data plan gains you, specifically on the iPhone since that's the platform you're researching. In the end you're really paying for convenience, but one big argument in favor of the iPhone is that you only need one device in your life which is nice, and the user interface is so well designed that you don't need a manual to use the phone (ha, more like Micro-Mac with a phone attached). And the support base is huge, it's Tres Chic to write an iPhone app now, which we gain from daily.
Yikes, I'd better get back to work! Thanks for listening!
Paul, I may cave into getting an iPod, but my assistant at work gave up on the iPhone because of the cost in spite of how much he liked it. Thanks anyway for the sales pitch. Give my regards to Steve Jobs when you see him.
That settled it for me. What a neat, useful ap for outdoor enthusiasts. If iPhone had it, that's okay. But I've got lots more use for the ap than I do for a new phone, so iPod it is for this kid.
Yes, Hank, apps run on both, it's just WAY cheaper to run an iPod (i.e. FREE). The app was probably iBird and it's fantastic, but I think it sets you back $30. On a PC that's not a lot of cash, but for an iPod, that's like spending fifty grand, lol!
The big difference for me between the iPhone and an iPod touch is the GPS unit that is in the first and not in the second. I resisted the whole expensive smart phone thing for a long time, but I now I have an iPhone, and I wonder how I lived my life before. The Photographers Empheris is a great app, made even greater on the iPhone as it can use the GPS hardware to know where you are and show the map for that location. The iPhone will geo-tag the pictures you take with it if you let it. You can use a navigation app to track your movements and use the data to geo-tag photos you have taken with any other digital camera. Using GPS is free, and it works anywhere in the world! I think I have only touched the surface for what can be done with the combination of GPS and iPhone apps. Add to that the ability to get my email anywhere my cell service works - I am a convert. I just wish I had it on our trip to Europe in June - we did have my wife's dumb iPad, but without GPS it couldn't sort the where the f... are we issues that I now know my iPhone could have done effortlessly.
Now that I've reluctantly come to the conclusion that the iPhone 4 is my best bet (combines phone, compass, gps, and can use the apps I want), they're all sold out in the stores around here.
I'd think of it as
"iPhone is basically a iPod Touch with a crappy phone service" :)
I went through 4 iPhones and my company has went through 50 or so until we returned them and switched to a Droid phone, not on AT&T. I don't see how people actually put up with that type of service. Drop call after dropped call. We travel all over the US and have the same issues where ever we go. If you stand perfectly still and don't move you might be able to have a 5 min conversion.
The iPhone has to be one of the coolest/greatest things I've ever played with, until you try to use it as a phone.
FWIW, I'd rather get a Droid phone if I could get any useful photo apps to run on it. They don't exist. Not yet anyway, and I could die waiting for that to happen. What's that everyone always tells the guy who's waiting for the next model before making his purchase? Think of all the pictures you could take (or miss) while you're waiting. I normally carry a cell phone, a compass, a GPS, and Hyperfocal charts. The iPhone will enable me to roll all that into one device and add an app that will tell me sunrise/set and moonrise/set times and directions.
What's not to like?