Reduce noise at beginning or end of editing?

I use Define 2.0 from within Lightroom to reduce the level of noise in my photos. It works great, but I'm never sure when is the best time to use it - when first opening the RAW file or at the end after all the adjustments? When processing in Define I end up with a TIFF file, which limits my ability to adjust white balance and tone.

What's the best practice?

Thanks all!

Hi Richard, I also use NIK's Dfine 2.0 in LR and using it to reduce noise is the very first step in photo processing. I'm not sure, but it seems that either I learned to reduce noise first from other photographer notes on NPN or I may have learned it from one of the great tutorials from NIK that I've watched.
Note that when you open most of the NIK programs you will see a box that lets you change the new copy's File Format to be processed as a TIFF or PSD file, you can also change the resolution. I usually change from a TIFF to a PSD format and haven't had any later problems with changes.
Craig

Richard,

I've wondered about this too. My best guess is that it depends on how much noise is in the image and what types of things you plan to do to the image in post processing. Just fyi though, the FAQs pages for both Noise Ninja and Nik's Dfine 2.0 suggest, as a general rule of thumb, running noise removal as the first step after conversion to RAW. Assuming that Lightroom's algorithm is the same kind of animal, I'd guess that advice applies.

Pat

When I do noise reduction I always do it prior to any adjustments to color or tonal values. NR might cause unexpected color/tonal shifts if it is done after making those adjustments.

Just to note that I shoot 4x5 film and work from a 'master' file, keeping my scan in a 'raw' state.

--P

Richard, I use both Noiseware Reduction in Photoshop as well as more recently Luminance Noise Reduction in Adobe Camera Raw which occurs prior to actually converting the image and opening it to work on in PS. A lot depends on the noise, what level of control I have to have, and the actual use of Noiseware reduction.
Today I accidentally stumbled on the idea of using NR while working on blending small sections of an image.
I think a general rule of thumb is to use it early in the process, and there do appear to be exceptions to that rule.

Carol

I usually do noise reduction prior to doing any tonal or color adjustments. Tonal adjustments can enhance luminosity noise and color adjustments can enhance color noise. The enhanced noise will, naturally, require a stronger application of noise reduction. Get rid of the noise first.

Something that hasn't been mentioned is that there's rarely any need to reduce noise in the entire image (globally). I use noise reduction selectively and almost always in large 'blank' areas such as skies. Remember that almost every editing step damages pixels to one degree or another, so the less you edit the better. Same goes with sharpening. There's hardly ever a need to sharpen areas like the skies, etc.

I was taught to sharpen only at the point of output, and to not sharpen my master files which I save as TIFF's. The idea is that your master files should have the maximum amount of information available for that file. Then as each output size calls for a different amount of sharpness then you sharpen accordingly.

I use the same philosophy with noise reduction. I don't use NR on my master files but for versions that I put in distribution everything from stock use to print files, I use noise reduction. In other words, it is the last step if needed.

Ditto what Richard said. Certain steps in PP can mask or augment noise and therefore, I was taught, NR should be done near the end of the process.

I also sharpen at the very end of my processing, and depending on lots of factors including , the final output size.

Sandy r

Since noise reduction does indeed alter the actual pixels, I do mine at the end of the process and also on a duplicate layer which I can then selectively erase, use a mask or reduce opacity as needed. I use Noise Ninja and have been very happy with the results The exception being I do apply as needed in the RAW conversion with the new ACR in CS5. Very impressed with it's performance. As with so much in photography, I think this will turn out to have no "best approach" but rather what works best for each individual based on their needs and taste. JR

Interesting thoughts from everyone on this subject; my thought is that LR3 is said to be an intuitive logical sequence of post processing procedures, hence since noise reduction is so far down in their sequence of procedures does that mean that noise reduction should be applied near the end of the process? Just an observation...