Posted by Jim Erhardt on March 23, 2006 at 7:13 AM
As many of you know, it was our long-standing policy to discourage the discussion of politics on NPN. It has always been, and continues to be my feeling that many come to this site as a refuge from this type of discourse that seems to permeate every day of our lives.
On the other hand, many members felt that not allowing this type of discussion was counter-productive to positive change in society. So it was decided that we would set up the Hot Topics forum as a place for discussion of politics as it relates to environmental conservation. Having a separate forum allows for this type of discussion without "infringing the rights" of those who come here (at least in part) to escape it.
The purpose of this post is to remind everyone that other than the Hot Topics forum, they should do their best to keep the rest of the NPN forums a "politics-free" zone out of respect to those who do not wish to engage or be subject to such conversation. Here is an excerpt from an email we recently received;
I hate to see that NPN has descended into the depths of allowing and endorsing open political commentary. It was inevitable, I know, given the general propensity of nature photographers to gravitate to the left of the political spectrum. History has shown me, a science major and currently working in a science field, that most peoples "activism" on environmental issues is based more on personal politics and emotion than on fact and science.
I still frequent the site and participate out of respect for many of the members I have come to "know", even though one of things I liked most about NPN (the exclusion of political talk) has been taken away and replaced with political agendas. I will refrain from participating in such conversations to keep this a peaceful place where like minded individuals can continue to propogate their agendas regardless of whether their chosen issue has merit or not.
I'm not saying I disagree with much of the talk or that we as a society don't need the concern, it was just nice to have a safehaven where nature photographers could meet, share ideas, and critique free of the political issues and agendas. I guess you could call it a case of the "good-ole-days syndrome."
We should realize that people come to NPN and participate for a variety of reasons. We should respect all of those reasons. Please keep all discussion of politics and references to your own political beliefs confined to the Hot Topics forum.
On behalf of all of those who come here as a refuge from the daily bombardment of such discussion in their daily lives, our sincere thanks to everyone for their cooperation on this matter.
Posted by Bill Chambers on March 23, 2006 at 7:48 AM
Thank you Jim!!! Personally, I would prefer NPN without ANY forum for political chit chat. I can go to any one of a million websites, both left and right, if I choose to discuss politics. I come here to get away from that for a while, and to enjoy and discuss PHOTOGRAPHY. It may start with one forum, but inevitably, hurt feelings or hard feelings from that forum have a tendancy to migrate into other areas, ie, critiques. If I dislike an image, I don't want someone thinking it's because they're some pinko, racist, commie, facist, left wing, right wing, neo-nazi, John Birch Sociey, card carrying ACLU, religious or anti religious nut-case. It's simple to me, let's all be good, responsible citizens and work and promote whatever our political beliefs are elsewhere and let's keep a photography website about photography. Just my 2 cents.........
Posted by Jim Erhardt on March 23, 2006 at 7:55 AM
It's simple to me, let's all be good, responsible citizens and work and promote whatever our political beliefs are elsewhere and let's keep a photography website about photography.
Bill, that has always been (and continues to be) my feeling too. The "Hot Topics" forum was named accordingly, and we should all do our best to keep such discussion confined to that forum.
Sure, it is they right way to handle this on a Photography site... Just keep it clean, please.
But I have to admit that being half a world away in Eastern Europe... I can`t help but wonder about the sensitivity of americans about the p-subject. And on the other hand the willingness to start flame wars over it. "Left" vs "right" discussions will never solve anything. I thought the Hot Topics forum was meant for generating ideas for nature protection, not to be a battleground.
Now please let`s argue about pictorial landscapes and compare lenses. Everyone should be happy.
Works for me, I just love level playing fields. I like mine with flowers and brightly colored little birds and maby a hawk front lit in a tree in the corner.
I definitely think there's better places to discuss general politics than a photography forum, but when these topics have a direct relevance to nature photography I don't think we should avoid them. The real crux is usually not the subject itself but the level of discussion. As long we it's civil and factual I don't have a problem with it personally.
Guy
Posted by Jim Erhardt on March 23, 2006 at 10:27 AM
But I have to admit that being half a world away in Eastern Europe... I can`t help but wonder about the sensitivity of americans about the p-subject.
It probably has to do with the fact that few of us trust anything said/reported to us by left-wing/right-wing politicians/media. "Facts" become very subjective, depending on who you listen to or what newspapers you read.
For me personally, I think that there should be no pay for any political office, and all terms should be limited to one. This will avoid the "career politicians" and ulterior motives for serving in a public office that plague our 2-party system.
It's too bad that the average American politician (regardless of which side of the philosophical isle they reside on) does what they do because they can't get a "real job" doing something productive and honorable. Do you get the feeling that I truly despise politicians and their BS "poli-speak"?
Posted by Jim Erhardt on March 23, 2006 at 11:02 AM
From an email that just came in;
Jim, you're ranting about politics on a thread about NOT ranting about politics!!!!
OK, I admit it! See how slippery these "political discussions" can become?
I like the way this has been handled. After all, what is a forum without debate? Nature photographers should and do have an agenda. Not much point in burying our heads and pretending it doesn't exist. I found the "right wing/left wing media" comment kind of offensive. Sure there are crazy talk show hosts but most of the "anchor" types are just scared little people mostly concerned about staying employed. I think the worst that can be said of them is that they do tend to bury their head on many unpleasant issues.
Posted by Jim Erhardt on March 23, 2006 at 6:41 PM
I found the "right wing/left wing media" comment kind of offensive.
If there are any Fox or CBS media people as NPN members, my sincere apologies.
From the other side of the planet I have always hated political topics, Has nothing to do with nature photograny and even the statement of when it does then it should be allowed also has nothing to do with nature photography. Keep it in the hot topics and the general forum should be kept to general information and posts on Nature Photography.
There are thing that I would like to see here, and others that I would not, assuming they are posting in the right forum.
For Example:
NO: the war in Iraq, nuclear policy, etc
YES: issues related to utilization of "natural" areas, e.g. Alaska National Wildlife Refuge.
My point of view is that if you couldn't take a picture of it, or the effects of it, and post is on NPN, then it probably doesn't belong here. Otherwise it is probably OK.
For those not interested in this discussion, don't view the "Hot Topics" forum. Not all that different than changing TV channels that don't interest you, or radio stations you find offensive.
Discussion
12 repliesOn the other hand, many members felt that not allowing this type of discussion was counter-productive to positive change in society. So it was decided that we would set up the Hot Topics forum as a place for discussion of politics as it relates to environmental conservation. Having a separate forum allows for this type of discussion without "infringing the rights" of those who come here (at least in part) to escape it.
The purpose of this post is to remind everyone that other than the Hot Topics forum, they should do their best to keep the rest of the NPN forums a "politics-free" zone out of respect to those who do not wish to engage or be subject to such conversation. Here is an excerpt from an email we recently received;
We should realize that people come to NPN and participate for a variety of reasons. We should respect all of those reasons. Please keep all discussion of politics and references to your own political beliefs confined to the Hot Topics forum.
On behalf of all of those who come here as a refuge from the daily bombardment of such discussion in their daily lives, our sincere thanks to everyone for their cooperation on this matter.
Bill, that has always been (and continues to be) my feeling too. The "Hot Topics" forum was named accordingly, and we should all do our best to keep such discussion confined to that forum.
But I have to admit that being half a world away in Eastern Europe... I can`t help but wonder about the sensitivity of americans about the p-subject. And on the other hand the willingness to start flame wars over it. "Left" vs "right" discussions will never solve anything. I thought the Hot Topics forum was meant for generating ideas for nature protection, not to be a battleground.
Now please let`s argue about pictorial landscapes and compare lenses. Everyone should be happy.
Guy
It probably has to do with the fact that few of us trust anything said/reported to us by left-wing/right-wing politicians/media. "Facts" become very subjective, depending on who you listen to or what newspapers you read.
For me personally, I think that there should be no pay for any political office, and all terms should be limited to one. This will avoid the "career politicians" and ulterior motives for serving in a public office that plague our 2-party system.
It's too bad that the average American politician (regardless of which side of the philosophical isle they reside on) does what they do because they can't get a "real job" doing something productive and honorable. Do you get the feeling that I truly despise politicians and their BS "poli-speak"?
OK, I admit it! See how slippery these "political discussions" can become?
I do agree in trying to keep these discussions in the HOT TOPIC forum, but as Guy stated subjects concerning naturephotography should be allowed.
Regards
If there are any Fox or CBS media people as NPN members, my sincere apologies.
My 2 cents worth, or is that a dime
For Example:
NO: the war in Iraq, nuclear policy, etc
YES: issues related to utilization of "natural" areas, e.g. Alaska National Wildlife Refuge.
My point of view is that if you couldn't take a picture of it, or the effects of it, and post is on NPN, then it probably doesn't belong here. Otherwise it is probably OK.
For those not interested in this discussion, don't view the "Hot Topics" forum. Not all that different than changing TV channels that don't interest you, or radio stations you find offensive.