Kingfisher

Had another day photographing kingfishers today at a fantastic site in Worcestershire.

SHOT INFO

Canon 1D Mark IV
Lens EF500mm f/4L IS USM
Focal Length 500.0m
Shooting Mode - Aperture-Priority AE
Tv( Shutter Speed ) - 1/250
Av( Aperture Value ) - 4.0
Metering Mode - Partial Metering
Exposure Compensation -1
ISO Speed - 250
Auto ISO Speed - OFF

To view large version, please go to gallery

Thanks for all the recent constructive feedback,
Lee

Still thinking about that secret friend of Danny's. Who could it be

Cracking shot Lee. You must be very pleased with it. And you should be.

Edster

I thought this was one of Danny's when I opened it, and that's some compliment
A great shot Lee.

Geoff.

Hi Lee, a nice shot of a KF on perch...

Ian

I wouldn't go that far Geoff but thanks anyway,
Lee

Lee
Nice picture
The old problem of Kingfisher whites blown, but also I feel there are so many Kingfisher shots around that they have to get really different to attract a lot of attention these days. Interesting that someone thought this shot was Dannys. This highlights the problem of using a set up site used by multiple photographers. Its a great shot but the similarity of other peoples shots hits you.
I have even heard of agreements as to who posts the first pic from a shared site.
I personally would never spend money on using a hide with a set up done by someone else. Please don't take this the wrong way but to me it takes away the whole essence of nature photographey,and individuality of the photographers interpretation of a site, species or situation.
To be honest-Kinghfishers are pretty easy and there are sites to be found with a bit of hard field work.
Still a nice pic though.
Cheers
John Robinson

I appreciate the comment John but as an enthusiast with limitted time at the moment to commit to my photography I find this site ticks all the boxes for my needs. I can however appreciate that originality is always going to come into question whilst sharing sites. Thanks for the constructive feedback mate
'Oh! and the whites don't look too bad on my screen but I'll take your word on it'
Cheers,
Lee

Hi Lee

Looks familiar - that said still a very nice image.

David

Yes, a fine image. I would one day like to get one, gotta find em first

A fine image, I might have framed it so the subject was very slightly to the right. As it is the eye is a little too central for me.

David

Thanks Dave, have taken on board
Lee

I tend to agree with John here - it's a nice shot, but this 'secret' spot is familiar and perhaps too easily recognised IMHO

Just out of interest, is this a 'set up' site? The reason I ask is because there appears to be a big number of very similar KF images around now. Is this a 'pay-n-go' arrangement with a reedmace thrown in - am I missing out?

Cheers,
Chris

This image was captured at the same site as Danny Greens image, hence the similar shots

Lee

If I may, I would like to comment on two levels.

Looking at this in islolation as an expressive image of a Kingfisher, it is top notch.

However, the fact that people mistook it for one of Danny's is a two edged sword. Firstly, it is a fantastic compliment. But secondly, it means it has all been seen before.

I understand time pressures as well as anyone - I spent more time than I like to remember chained to a desk in the City. I appreciate, after a hard weeks work, the pleasure that comes from a brief encounter with nature and capturing a cracking image of it. I also know its great to share time with a pro like Danny and to learn from him.

But, and this is the big but, the danger is you may find that after a while you will have been to all the great sites and you will be left wondering what to do next. Yes, you will have some great images and memories and made some great friends from the trips, but so will they. Don't get me wrong, don't give up the trips, but try and find something unqiue to do as well - something that no one else will have done.

Like John says, find a suitable strech of river, put a few perches in and set up a hide at the weekend and see what happens. You don't need to leave the hide in place and Kingfishers are pretty tolerant. If it is your own site, you can try different perches against different backgrounds and in different conditions.

Sorry to preach, but the buzz you will get from your own work will blow away anything you will get from producing an image, however good, that looks like someone else's.

Andrew

Hi Lee stood alone it’s a very fine Kingfisher shot. However in my opinion I tend to agree with John and somewhat with Geoff.
For me having my work compared in style to another photographer would not be complimentary. I would see that as a failure on my part to convey my own unique style in the image.
Technically your images are of a very high standard but I would like to see a little more of Lee Fisher come through in them.

Thanks for the feedback guys, will lay off the kingfishers on here then this was simply an opportunity that was too good to pass on for me but I do appreciate all the comments.
Normally all my photography is taken in isolation and I feel has my own stamp on it.
Since joining the site I have recieved good constructive feedback from everyone and all your comments will be taken on board,
Cheers
Lee

Hey Lee

You've certainly been stirring up a veritable hornets' nest with this post haven't you?. Personally I think you've earned this picture, 10 hours in a hide with the chain smoking love child of Wee Jimmy Krankie and Ronnie Corbett!

I think this is one of the best kingfisher images that has been posted on here, there is something really quite special about it and in your situation re. work etc I think you'd have been mad not to go!

Andy

Thanks Andy and anyhow I reckon its better than Dannys (that was a joke before I get ripped a new one from everyone)
Lee

Hi Andy

I don't see any hornets? Just rational opinion/critique without any personalisation. Am I missing something here?

Cheers,
Chris

An image has been posted for critique and it is a stonkin' image. The only slight concern I have is that I see a lighter area around the full length of the reed - possibly due to dodging? That's very minor though and I would love to have taken it as they are hard to find in my neck of the woods.

Maybe the asides are better discussed separately? Certainly worthy of discussion.

Hello Everyone

First of all what a great shot Lee, you got some nice light there and by the way I wasn't sitting next to Lee when he took this shot.

I would like to comment here because I have been mentioned a bit in this thread and in a way I can see John's and other peoples points but only because I believe in producing something different or a new take on things. Most people do not because they stick to a rigid format that is tried and tested and I think if you Guys that have critised Lee for making this image have to be really honest with yourselfs and ask yourselfs this are you producing any ground breaking stuff yourselfs and if not why not. If you take Lee for example he stands a very good chance of winning the countryfile competition with his wonderful shot of a fishing Osprey that was taken at a well known site in Aviemore. Many photographers have passed through this place and just produced standard stuff but Lee goes and produces an award winning image, why because he is good at what he does and knows how to handle his camera and has a good eye for a shot. So to just criticise him for going on a workshop where he doesn't have the time to set it up himself and where the bottom line is he still has to take the shot just doesn't make any sense to me and really if you are totally honest with yourselfs there is a tinge of jealously in there. Thats just my opinion no offence.

Personally Lee I think this is better image than mine too

Danny

Hi Chris

No your not missing anything - it was just a light hearted reference to the debate that the post stimulated. I would have thought that my comment immediately after where I suggested that Danny was a love child of Jimmy Krankie and Ronnie Corbett etc etc might have given all the clues necessary to show that I was just joking. Unless of course your suggesting that Danny really is the result of this illicit liaison....is this what your suggesting Chris...is it??



Andy

I thought Jimmy was a boy it would be impossible for those two to breed!

Or I am I missing something

Hello Chaps.

Danny, there are soooooo many things that I could respond to in your comments but in order to keep it short: I don't think the critique was personal criticism towards Lee, or his method of utilizing workshops (not from me, anyway). The gist, as I interpreted it, was more about the disadvantage of his image paying more than a passing resemblance to yours (and a number of others that were obviously taken at the same place). I might be wrong.

Dan, you say you believe in producing different images, and you clearly have an influence on Lee, therefore, you might encourage him to adopt your philosophy and get him to try something different - in a workshop environment, or elsewhere (Lee, I'm not patronising you here - Danny is a very talented photographer with probably more influence than he realises). Damn these bloody egg-shells – they’re so hard to walk on!

Andy: I am indeed suggesting something else - I believe MiniMe (from Austin Powers) add a part in it (so to speak).

Listen guys, this is a critique forum, and despite friendships, etc, if we post on here, we have to accept that images aren’t always going to get the response we want. Let’s not assume it is anything personal.

Lee: sorry for hi-jacking your post a bit. Your image is a fine shot of a kingfisher, but is a ‘copycat’ shot - nothing personal, just my critique. Good luck with the Countryfile vote.


Cheers,
Chris

Thanks for that Danny

I too kind of agree with the originality thing being stated above but also see no problem with workshops.

The only difference I can take from this is that the shot is of a kingfisher as opposed to the umpteen possible workshops available.

I have never heard the criticism for bird of prey days, or any of the many wildlife holidays available to the photograher at numerous well visited nature hot spots.
I have seen many shots by different togs taken of eagles, bears, grouse, squirrels,ospreys etc,,, taken whilst sat next to other photographers in a hide. Are these shots original? - No, Are they offering anything new to photography? - No, will they win awards? - probably not
But what they do is allow photographers and nature lovers the opportunity to interact with species which for various reasons would be unattainable to them.

Now as Danny has said some original shots can come from these well worn tracks, but in this specific case I think the crit is somewhat valid as loading a kingfisher on a reed only days after Danny is asking for it.
I must admit I never gave it that much thought, I saw the shot, was pleased with it and banged it on.
For that I'm sorry
But as for going and using the Kingfisher site, I don't regret it for a second. This was one of the best wildlife experiences of my life and a dream come true to be able to photograph these birds so close, and after all isn't that why we enthusiasts do this
Thanks again to everyone for their input and I definitley have some food for thought,
Cheers,
Lee

Never,ever be sorry for posting anything Lee ever!!! beauty is in the eye of the be holder, where seeing nature in all her glory is the best reward. Posted a few days down the line and the image would'nt have been noticed so much I feel but no big issue. I waited 18 months to photography Kingfishers and now with my own site I love them so can understand your passion for wanting to see/photography them. I would just say do whats good for you and its a cracking shot. Good luck in Countryfile you have my vote there

Lee... Its a fine shot and don't you go apologising for posting it, someone has to show that short northerner how to do it... I think even his new MkIV is stuck on f4 and ISO200 ...

I remember a few years back at a certain site here in Kent where you were guaranteed of images of a kingfisher... it would show up every half hour and perch outside a public hide, the hide was often full of photographers and it became probably the most photographed KF in the world....

All these workshops are experience and I am sure you learnt a lot and will be able to take that knowlege and use it for your own sites so I believe it is time well spent....

Danny... I am sure wee Jimmie Kranky was a girl dressed up (sorry couldn't resist)

Lee

I've shot workshops and captive - it is down to personal choice how we get our images and use them. As for apologising for posting this shot, I third what the other two have said - no need!

Cheers,
Chris

Well there is that lol, no such thing as bad publicity and all that
Lee

HELLOOOOOO

Cheer up everyone, what is life coming to nowadays

A great shot Lee & yes, much better than Dannys

A real pleasure to view

Vince

How are ya vince thought I might run into you here at some point
Lee

it's a small world Lee

Personally I would be very proud of a shot like this irrespective of the above, so would everyone else on here I think. The image is very well taken & exposed. I love the tip of the beak & of course the lollipop the Kingfisher is perched on.

Is there such a thing as a Photographer Period or PPT

Hi Lee,

That's a great shot of a Kingfisher - it looks like a juvenile too which adds a layer of success to your image - well not the image eprse but the fact that a pair have successfully reared offspring.

There have been a lot of comments on this topic and almost every one of them has a valid point. Yes, there have been several kingfisher posts here recently, all of which have been of a high standard - yours included. It makes sense to goto a set up where the possibility of a great image is likely. I wouldn't pass it up - espeically when your time is limited. It may be that you market your images (if you sell them etc) in a way no one else has thought of and although there are replicas out there, yours is the one that is picked. Look at your opsrey shot!

But I have to agree with other comments as well. If you have the time, working your own site is great. It's a challenge, it teaches you to research and understand the subject and above all allows you to create your own images unique to your own site.

In my opinion if you can use your image(s) to communicate the importance of nature to an audience perhaps less inspired that people on this forum, I don't care whether it's set up or completely original.

Chris

I'm going to judge the image on its own merits...and its a cracker!
If I had the opportunity to work this site I wouldn't hesitate. And if I got a shot like this I'd be well chuffed Wouldn't bother me if it wasn't unique...I'd rather have it on my hard-drive than not!


Simon

Hello Vince

Is there such a thing as a Photographer Period or PPT

LOL! Vinny very funny thats what we have all got.

Danny

Don't be sorry Lee. If you are happy with an image bang it on the forum. I have been happy with my squirrels and I don't care that I post 3 in a week which are nearly the same. Just curious about people's reaction I think.

An image that puts a smile on your face is a success. Let us be the audience.

Ed

Hello Lee.

Its a cracking image and I'd love it.

Great image Lee, I would be more than happy with any shot of a Kingfisher as good as your's. I wouldnt care if I had to sit on Danny's, or anybodies lap to get it. I wouldnt care if it was staged, natural, or stuffed and glued on the top of the Mace if it looked that good. I agree with Vince (whom I've never met) things seem to be getting too personal on here lately and chill pills need to be taken. I'm off to sit for hours on end on a river bank in the hope that a Kingfisher might land on my unique but not natural twig and pose for long enough for me to get a shot, which for a change i might not have messed up the camera settings and be able to keep. Nearly Xmas and the time for good will to ALL.

Well - I feel guilty in a way for bringing up the subject initially of my un easy feeling about "pay to view " photography which has certainly drawn a mixed response. However , I still stick to my original views.
I have watched the thread develop with great interest.
All I can say after going through it all is that I feel a little sad that nature photography in today's world has changed into something that I am not sure I want to be part of any longer.
I think it may be better if I just get some postcard prints done and pass them around for granny to see when she comes to tea.
John Robinson

John, I think you are missing something here

Giving the actual image some critque is fine, this is something that can be very usefull to improve one's skills. Comparing images with others even though similar is more or less saying don't take the same image as someone else. I am very confused with this, very confused!!!!!!!

Lets get back to the set up before the image was even taken.

Lee joined a workshop to photograph Kingfishers, this was obviously with others & I bet they all had an amazing experience, not just behind the camera but observing this incredible little bird.

With that said, the waiting game commences & wow, there's a Kingfisher on what can only be described as a cracking landing platform. Are you saying that the first one who hits the trigger bags the image & the rest don't get the shot, leave & go home. I am sure I read this thread this way.

Back to the Kingfisher & Lee & of course all that prime kit he's heavily invested into. Expensive shots are now being taken & yes Lee is over the moon with what he see's in the playback, more shots are taken & the day finally ends with Lee, Danny & whoever else was there, enjoying a great day photographing such a beautiful bird.

Lucky gits

Now to the image, Lee took the shot, not Danny, Lee took the shot using his own skills to control the correct exposure, Danny was probably having a roll up at that point in time anyway, not unless he was twiddling with the control settings as Lee was hitting the trigger, you never know he might have been as they were very close to each other.

Lee gets home, looks back on the days images & thinks, wow, what a day He then decides to process a few shots & then thinks about uploading an image he likes on UKNP to show others what he managed to capture.

What does he get, blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa & a lot of PPT. (meaning posted earlier)

Surely if anyone including yourself are going to type something, try giving credit where its due & stick to the quality of the image. On the image only, for which what was posted, do you think its a well taken shot with pleasing exposure or not, is it a keeper or an image for the bin? Try & be fair & stick to the image because this is what was posted. Can't be fairer than that surely.

I have an headache now, might be me PPT coming on

Written with the hope of no offence being caused to anyone, just needed to voice my thoughts (Only Thoughts)

Going back to what you said John, "Where is Nature Photography going". this is something you need to ask yourself I think, if you feel that strong about the direction this thread was taken.

Vince

Vincent
Read my original post about what I thought of the image.
Seems plain enough to me.
Its "pay to view" that I am not too happy about with but if thats what todays nature potographers want to do then fine, let them get on with it.
I'll be doing some workshops on caterpillars shortly but I bet not many folks come. Not "honeypot" enough !
JohnR

If opportunities can be provided by others who are willing to put the work in & others want to participate & pay for what is being put on a plate for them, that is the decision of that photographer. That is what money buys John, it also buys the kit we all shoot with, which also can be classed as Pay to view.

I think the word business comes to mind.

Count me in for the workshop, it sounds great like fun

Vincent
That is exactly my point !!
"Business"
Read my original comments on the picture . Its nice but been done before and will be done again no doubt, but this is a critique forum so whats the problem.?
I personally would never pay to take pictures of tame owls but that is my opinion and I feel I have earned the right to up hold it. As you said - "business "
And it didn't buy the crap gear I shoot with - no way.
JohnR

Hi John,
I think this thread has kind of moved into a new place with my shot as the example. I fundamentally agree with what your saying and I myself enjoy getting out there and being amongst nature.
I feel like I'm being pigeon holed a bit mate as the essence of all the things that are bad with nature photography.
I have been on a couple of paid photography trips in my life and the rest of the time has been in the field.
If you really have an issue with pay per view as you put it, why don't you start a thread about it instead of continuing to use me as your example when probably every photographer on this site has paid in some way or other to see specific wildlife at some point.
I appreciate your opinion but repeating it doesn't really serve much purpose.
You have to appreciate that there is an element of horses for coarses with this issue, and we can agree to disagree.
Though I do think this would make a good topic for debate......
Thanks again for your opinion mate, with regards,
Lee

Lee
I made my comments about your picture on the first answer that I posted.
Its other people that have side tracked it. You say " re peating it ". Not me mate !
I have the right to express my views about nature photography practices , which I have been doing long before your first post.
It is nothing really at all to do with you personally.(I have sent a PM )
Too busy doing spiders to go on with this
JohnR
Mods - Raise a topic

I'm happy to debate my shot John all day long but just feel that there is other issues here which could be discussed outside this thread.
I would never question your rights to discuss these issues and am more than aware of being a newbie on here which kind of makes this whole issue a bit over whelming really considering the reaction this simple Kingfisher upload has evoked.
Cheers Lee

Lee
Come on !
You are making far more of this than was ever intended !
I liked your picture - but I don't agree withyour methods of getting it.
Lets leave it at that.
End of story
JR

50 comments now - glad to help!

Its nice to set the record, shame it wasn't for the image. Ah well, maybe next time
Lee

Right.. I'm not sure how this one missed me & Tom (probably something to do with us having a life, enjoying a Friday night with Family and sleeping - 2:48am for heavens sake - are you lot insomniacs?!), but it's run it's course now.

Vince, I'm with you ... there is definitely something like Photographer PMT going on now, or maybe it's just starting to turn into downright professional jealousy between some .

Lee, you don't need to apologise for your image in any way, it's a fine shot, and one most of the photographers on this forum would kill to have taken (perhaps that's why they're trying to kill you with words?!?!?).