Bird feeders, bird baths

Photos taken of birds at either of the above -- are these acceptable in the Avian gallery, not acceptable in the Avian gallery, not acceptable in nature photography period? Thank you for any input.

Barbara,

Birds feeders, bird baths and manmade perches are ok to post in the avian critique gallery. Images with birds baths, feeders, bird houses, etc. do not seem to get as many comments or views as images taken in natural settings, just an observation.

Personally I don't often photograph birds at feeders, birdbaths, or birdhouses, I prefer a more natural setting. I will post images where the birds are perched on manmade articles at times, rusty fences, old posts, things like that.

Barbara,

Photos where feeders, bird baths and other such objects are visible don't have much appeal for many, including me. If you're going to shoot birds in those situations I'd suggest arranging the shot so they're not visible (natural looking perches near the feeders or getting the birds in flight as they approach). I'd also disclose that the bird was photographed at a setup in your post comment but some have differing views on that.

Barbara:

Many of the photos I post are taken near feeders or bird baths (or our artificial pond/stream). However, all of those object are located near vegetation or somewhat natural perches (We'll often stick up some dead branches for perches). That's where I usually take the images. The setup question gets very blurry-is a reservoir or sewage pond in the desert a setup? You can get all kinds of controversy going with this one. Mostly, tome it boils down to taste. Most of the bird-houses/baths don't lend much to the image for me.

Hi Barbara,
They are absolutely acceptable in the avian critique gallery. As others have said they may not get as many comments as more natural looking shots but they are certainly welcome. Cindy makes a good point in that there are markets for these types of photos.

In my own back yard, I've recently set up a few feeders but I attach them to natural looking perches where the birds will land on their way in and way out to the feeder. You can do this with your bird bath as well.

As one example the last post I made of a flicker was on a homemade feeder made to look like a natural tree. You can view it below http://www.naturephotographers.net/imagecritique/ic.cgi?a=vp&pr=157195&CGISESSID=92be16f2cedd5aed834099a60ac317a9&u=6009=.

Here's another one of my feeder setups, the one I used to capture the nuthatch which I also posted recently.

Personally, I think it's silly to suggest or imply that photographing birds at setups isn't often, even usually, much easier than shooting them in non-setup situations. Case in point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-K5OeQY6s4

Ron B....it's not necessarily easier to get the shot using a setup of some sort...some of us use setups because of lack of finances to travel, or others like Cindy, due to physical limitations. A person still has to wait for the birds to show up, to get the right composition, or the right lighting. Setups do not eliminate all the obstacles that one might encounter in the *natural* world.

Note: This comment and a couple of others in this thread were made in response to comments made by Ron Bielefeld which Mr. Bielefeld later deleted.


Hey Barbara, just look at the can of worms you've opened!! LOL I'll bet you didn't realize bird photography could be so controversial!

While I would agree that using a setup makes getting an excellent shot with a clean background easier than just walking around in the field trying to photograph the same species, I take exception with the statement that it's not nature photography. Most of the setup shots are of passerines which are small and difficult to get close to. Some are very difficult to photograph period. Just as an example to get a great image of a Pacific-slope Flycatcher (which lives in the area) in my backyard with a setup would be much more difficult than going to Bosque del Apache and getting a great image of a Snow Goose. I personally enjoy seeing good images of these passerines and I consider the work of Alan Murphy, Bob Steele ,Glenn Bartley and others who do it well nature photography and art.

In my opinion it's just as easy to go to places like Bosque del Apache or the Florida coast and photograph lots of waterbirds which are relatively tame and accustomed to people as it is to do setup photography of passerines. I have done a lot of both types of photography. To me it is like comparing apples and oranges.

What Nate said.

Nate, I would never argue that setup photography doesn't have its place. But much of this thread was in response to Cindy's claim that setup shots as a rule aren't "easier to obtain" than those that are not setups. One can always find exceptions of course but even in the situations you describe I don't think they can approach the ease of capture that is seen in the video I posted above and in other setup situations I've seen. Do you really think that getting fine shots, that are equally impressive, at Bosque or the Florida coast is "just as easy" in general as setups with passerines, as in that video?

I had to ask. You have much more varied experiences than I do but I need some serious convincing...

To answer your question Ron, every species is different. Some are going to be very difficult to get into a setup, some are going to be easy. The flight shots from that video are still not really easy shots because they are small birds and they are flying very fast, you have to have quick reactions and very good equipment to capture them. I would agree that the perched shots are quite easy in that video. There is some work involved in setting up the setup, blinds etc and with some species you can scare them off if your blind is partially open or if you make any noise. so it really does depend on the species.

For example I've been shooting Steller's Jays in my backyard for the past couple of weeks on and off. I've yet to get what I would consider a perfect image of one for two reasons 1) They are constantly moving and spook off easily and 2) My backyard doens't get any sun so there's not a lot of light. I've probably taken 500 images of them and I'm not really satisified with one yet. I'll post one here in a bit.

At Bosque and the Florida coast there are a lot of birds and many of them are approachable . There is plenty of adequate light generally so yeah, I do find the photography to be fairly easy at both of those locations. When I think about spending a few days at Bosque or the Florida coast or at Bill Forbes place with setups in Arizona, I'd say I'm going to get a bunch of excellent impressive images at all 3 of them. It partially depends on what you think is easier. In Florida I would end up doing more walking and stalking of the birds, but not so much that I would think it was difficult or exhausting. At Bosque it's more driving around to specified shots at the right time of day and shooting. In Arizona at Bill's place, it's a lot of moving perches and feeders around to try and get them in the right position to get the shot I want, even then I don't necessarily get the species that I want out in the open. As far as that video we don't know how long they waited for those birds to come in and I would guess those are just some of the highlights that have been compressed into a very short video.

As far as what I think of as more difficult photography it would be for example photographing birds in the Ecuadorian Amazon where lighting and vegetation both conspire to make things difficult. Although you can still get some great stuff particularly shooting from the canoes on the oxbow lakes and rivers.

Thanks Nate, for the detailed response to my question.

This is not in the same universe as what you all are talking about, but here's the one other image I kept of the little bird in the bird bath. I know this doesn't qualify as avian photography in anybody's mind except that it is a bird and it is a photograph, plus he/she is really cute, so there you go.

He/she's a cutie and it qualifies as avian photography in my book Barbara.

Of course this image is avian photography Barbara. And the bird is "really cute" and I like the image. Quite a bit actually.

Just FYI, I deleted all my past/previous comments on this thread because it appears another person has gone back and changed their comments on this thread after I responded to them, making my comments unrepresentative what is now written in certain places in this thread.

Does spreading around some bird seed in a natural or park setting, in other words not at a backyard feeder, qualify as a set up situation. I put out seeds in a nearby park near an old dirt road and use my van as a blind. It's the only way I have found so far that I can get some of the small songbirds, such as cardinals, towhees, bluejays, finches etc., close enough to photograph. Based on my experience so far it seems fruitless to me to just walk around in the park and try to get good photos of many of these birds. I would like some other opinions.
Thanks.