I know I am certainly in the minority here, but I wonder why there is a trend to acknowledge a person's massive posting abilities when they reach a 'milestone' with their posts totaling in some even number of thousands? While many of these members are certainly worthy contributors, I personally believe in recognizing quality not quantity. Of course, the american tradition is always more, bigger, and faster, which is so often so untrue and has gotten us in a heap of trouble. That, of course, is fortunately not the case here at NPN. Still, it's kind of like congratulating some one for having a baby. It's not really hard to do. Animals (including humans) do it quite easily and all too frequently. (No offense meant to anyone, parent or otherwise).
Posted by Luke Ormand on October 11, 2010 at 3:50 PM
The honor is not for ability to post images, but to post comments. People that reach significant levels (usually starting around 5000 are commended for their dedication to commenting on other peoples images. It takes a lot to reach 5000 (and certainly a lot to get to 10,000 or above). In my experience on NPN, people who reach such significant numbers always (or at least 90% of the time) make thoughtful, helpful critiques of images. These are not people who are just saying "nice shot" or "beautiful" they are serious contributors who put thought and time into each and every post. Not to mention, in order to reach such a high number, you need to be a member for a few years and over that time you can affect a lot of people and make a big difference.
- Luke
Posted by Nathan Buck on October 11, 2010 at 3:54 PM
I agree with Luke. If you look back on the posts of some of these recognized members, they post very thoughtful and helpful comments and critiques - some of them quite lengthy. When you hit 5000 and 10000 comments, that means a lot of key strokes on the keyboard.
If there was a way to easily recognize someone for quality, I am guessing that you would see some of those same people recognized.
Nathan
Posted by Mia McPherson on October 11, 2010 at 4:44 PM
Jeffrey,
I'm assuming with a name like Jeffrey you are a male, a male who has never given birth. It isn't always easy. Try it some time. I'd congratulate you so would the whole world.
I have made 10566 comments on other people's images, our Avian moderator doesn't congratulate us on reaching any kind of milestone so I don't do it to get kudos or recognition.
I learn as much from giving critiques as I do from the critiques on my images. I don't usually say "Wow" or "Great shot" unless the image really blows me away and when I feel nothing could be done to improve an image. This is a critique forum, not a social networking site so I try to give thoughful critiques. If an image has issues, I mention it. If an image has great techs, I mention it.
I believe that the NPN community for the most part is a community of mentors who take the time and make the effort to help the person posting their images for critique.
Posted by Lon Overacker on October 11, 2010 at 4:53 PM
Jeffrey, Jeffrey...
While the milestone that is mentioned is quantity, clearly, clearly the recognition is for that person's contributions to the forum and galleries is it not? Taking a few of the heavy hitters like Tony K, Stan R and Bill C., these folks usually write the best comments/critiques - or at a minimum make thoughtful and meaningful comments. It's simply a note of gratitude from a fellow member.
Having said that, I know I have recognized at least 2 folks in the past and then I quit doing it. Of course each moderator gets to make their own decision and I can tell you this recognition is not NPN policy. But considering that ES&S is the most active forum, it would be pretty ridiculous for someone to keep track of members reaching certain milestones. I don't do it, and I don't believe anyone else does. The reason I personally don't do that any more is simply because somewhere along the line someone will wonder why so-and-so didn't get recognized, or then some other member may think it's only about quantity...
I fully support any member who wants to recognize another member for their help and contributions to the betterment of other photographers.
Now, if you want to talk about quantity and images posted... that's a whole 'nuther story....
Another thought-provoking topic Jeffrey!
Lon
Posted by Ramamohan Pai on October 11, 2010 at 5:07 PM
I agree with the thoughts expressed so far. Most that have commented 5K or 10K + times would continue to do so even if not recognized.
Jeffrey is a Moderator at Fred Miranda forums and I have seen quite a lot of folks celebrating their 5,000th or 10,000th and in some instances 20,000th post with something special. The title of those posts unmistakingly would be "My n,000th Post".
Posted by Richard Wong on October 11, 2010 at 5:07 PM
I think it's about thanking the person for their contributions. Guy Tal comes to mind when it comes to participation. I'm not sure I'm capable of making 30,000 comments let alone insightful ones so anyone who can pull off that sort of productivity deserves kudos in my book for keeping NPN alive.
Posted by Mark Windom on October 11, 2010 at 6:47 PM
It's also a form of recognition for their dedication to this site. I completely agree with that recognition.
Oh, Jeffrey… gracious… Do you think so little of fathering a baby? Your "input" may be easy, especially if you really believe that fathering is not so important, but for a woman it's a lot more involved, and dangerous, really. That children are most of the time delivered without a problem, and mom survives the birth, is something of a miracle. That they survive long past that is even more of a miracle. Ponder it. Also ponder how much trouble our society/culture is in because of people having babies "quite easily" and then not parenting them.
As to comments on photos here at NPN, it's about participating in a community, offering encouragement and trying to write a meaningful critique in support of a photographer's work and desire to improve. And for those who have reached the zenith of image making, it's just fun to give kudos and aspire to be that consistently good.
Posted by John Tobias on October 12, 2010 at 7:48 AM
I am one of those who does write "Nice shot or good image". I feel those who go to the effort to post photos should get "nice job" when posting a decent photo. I also make comments I feel qualified to suggest. I believe the galleries can support both types of comments. I have learned from some of my not great postings, I also enjoy getting the nice job ones. If a member takes the time to reach a certain level of responses it should be recognized. That is alot of help-praise to nature photographers.
Great replies, everyone. I appreciate the various points of view and do agree with them.
Yes, I have posed some rather different types of questions here from time to time, and I certainly imply no offense to anyone. I'm glad that the community here sees that to be true. Thank you all.
I do this to simply express what I'm observing (like photography itself), and to learn more about people by stirring them to think about things that are different than what we see here every day. In an environment where unanimous support is so strong and the unspoken rule is to say something nice or say nothing at all, I crave the brazenly honest critique (of my images or words) by those brave enough to speak freely, and appreciate the opportunity to do so myself.
I personally appreciate more than I can say and would gladly honor each person who has posted critiques of my images as well as those who have posted "nice shot" or similar words. I completely realize everyone here is not a newbie, but as a newbie I need both honest critiques and honest praise. I would not get very far without both. I especially appreciate and would honor those who have made their comments, both critiques and praise, to me keeping in mind where I am on this journey, because that means to me that they hear me. to each one of those people.
Posted by Bill Fach on October 13, 2010 at 5:14 AM
Jeffrey: I'll take credit for initiating and continuing this practice. Contrary to your premise that quantity is somewhat effortless I would say that in fact commenting 5000 times (my personal and arbitrary threshold) requires a great deal of consistent and dedicated effort to the betterment of the site and community. The folks I have recognized are all strong contributors who help others much more than they are helped themselves. A public thank you seems the least I can do to show my appreciation for those who have done so much to make Flora the admittedly self proclaimed finest Flora gallery on the planet.
Shed no tears either for quality recognition. Since I started recognizing folks in May 2009 I've done it 12 times. Lon did it a couple of times. In that same time frame quality has been recognized officially hundreds of times. It happens every week in the Weekly Picks gallery and annually with the Editor's Picks Awards. I would premise that this kind of recognition is a lot easier to gain than a quantity kudo. I've seen many folks get a Weekly Pick who were veritable flashes in the pan. I won the 2006 EPA for Photo Art and I very rarely post there. While that image did require some work and creativity to produce and I'm proud of it I somehow don't think it has done as much to enrich the lives and stimulate the creativity and/or enhance the skill level of the folks whose images I comment on. >=))>
Jeffrey: your question is good and thought provoking. But next time, try a different analogy..this "baby making" thing was pretty bad
Posted by Terry Sohl on October 14, 2010 at 12:58 AM
I started birding, and bird photography, about the same time as I started coming to NPN. I've learned a great deal from the comments on NPN, both from comments on photos I've posted, as well as by looking through the comments on other people's photos. The value of the resource to me is community involvement.
We're all busy, and knowing how hard it is to find time myself, I appreciate ANY time that someone has to post a comment. That includes the short and concise comments, as well as the more involved ones. From being out here for a number of years, one thing that's quite obvious is that the quality of photos posted has improved greatly. Much of that is due to feedback through the comments. With the improved quality, I find myself often posting short blurbs to acknowedge the beauty of a photograph, and how much I appreciate it. There's simply not as much to nit-pick about as there used to be!!
As for recognizing people...I like it. It encourages participation. To be honest, there's a (thankfully small) group of photographers on NPN where I won't ever comment on a photo, given the complete lack of reciprocal participation by the photographer. What I find especially annoying are the photographers in this group that post a photo and explicitly ask for feedback, even though the photographer has fewer comments than personal photo posts. It's the reciprocal participation, the reciprocal sharing and enjoyment of each other's photos, that I really treasure with NPN.
Posted by Jim Erhardt on October 15, 2010 at 5:53 AM
Without a doubt, a "photo critique forum" can only be successful if participants take the time to post comments on the work of others. As seen in the previous responses above, those who do so are often rewarded with plenty of useful feedback on their own photos.
I also concur with the practice of recognizing those whose participation is above and beyond the norm, or those who have a long record of regular participation. We have weekly and annual recognition of great photos - it has been suggested to do something similar for those who go the extra mile to comment and help others. It's a good idea, IMO...
Posted by Bret Edge on October 16, 2010 at 6:25 PM
I see no issues with recognizing those who have contributed thousands of comments on images posted on the site. Rarely, if ever in my experience, are those folks posting an inane comment like "Great shot." They're thoughtful critiques. Useful critiques. Critiques that have helped me and hundreds of other photographers become better at their craft. I take no issues with recognizing those whose contributions make this site a success.
As for having a baby "not being hard to do", I beg to differ. I was in the room with my wife when she gave birth to our son and I can assure you, it wasn't "easy". You have already said that you weren't trying to offend anyone with that comment but frankly, I don't see how it can be taken as anything but offensive. Mad props to every mom who has ever gone through that ordeal. If men had to birth the children, I have no doubt the human race would be in serious decline.
Discussion
16 replies- Luke
If there was a way to easily recognize someone for quality, I am guessing that you would see some of those same people recognized.
Nathan
I'm assuming with a name like Jeffrey you are a male, a male who has never given birth. It isn't always easy. Try it some time. I'd congratulate you
I have made 10566 comments on other people's images, our Avian moderator doesn't congratulate us on reaching any kind of milestone so I don't do it to get kudos or recognition.
I learn as much from giving critiques as I do from the critiques on my images. I don't usually say "Wow" or "Great shot" unless the image really blows me away and when I feel nothing could be done to improve an image. This is a critique forum, not a social networking site so I try to give thoughful critiques. If an image has issues, I mention it. If an image has great techs, I mention it.
I believe that the NPN community for the most part is a community of mentors who take the time and make the effort to help the person posting their images for critique.
While the milestone that is mentioned is quantity, clearly, clearly the recognition is for that person's contributions to the forum and galleries is it not? Taking a few of the heavy hitters like Tony K, Stan R and Bill C., these folks usually write the best comments/critiques - or at a minimum make thoughtful and meaningful comments. It's simply a note of gratitude from a fellow member.
Having said that, I know I have recognized at least 2 folks in the past and then I quit doing it. Of course each moderator gets to make their own decision and I can tell you this recognition is not NPN policy. But considering that ES&S is the most active forum, it would be pretty ridiculous for someone to keep track of members reaching certain milestones. I don't do it, and I don't believe anyone else does. The reason I personally don't do that any more is simply because somewhere along the line someone will wonder why so-and-so didn't get recognized, or then some other member may think it's only about quantity...
I fully support any member who wants to recognize another member for their help and contributions to the betterment of other photographers.
Now, if you want to talk about quantity and images posted... that's a whole 'nuther story....
Another thought-provoking topic Jeffrey!
Lon
Jeffrey is a Moderator at Fred Miranda forums and I have seen quite a lot of folks celebrating their 5,000th or 10,000th and in some instances 20,000th post with something special. The title of those posts unmistakingly would be "My n,000th Post".
As to comments on photos here at NPN, it's about participating in a community, offering encouragement and trying to write a meaningful critique in support of a photographer's work and desire to improve. And for those who have reached the zenith of image making, it's just fun to give kudos and aspire to be that consistently good.
Yes, I have posed some rather different types of questions here from time to time, and I certainly imply no offense to anyone. I'm glad that the community here sees that to be true. Thank you all.
I do this to simply express what I'm observing (like photography itself), and to learn more about people by stirring them to think about things that are different than what we see here every day. In an environment where unanimous support is so strong and the unspoken rule is to say something nice or say nothing at all, I crave the brazenly honest critique (of my images or words) by those brave enough to speak freely, and appreciate the opportunity to do so myself.
Shed no tears either for quality recognition. Since I started recognizing folks in May 2009 I've done it 12 times. Lon did it a couple of times. In that same time frame quality has been recognized officially hundreds of times. It happens every week in the Weekly Picks gallery and annually with the Editor's Picks Awards. I would premise that this kind of recognition is a lot easier to gain than a quantity kudo. I've seen many folks get a Weekly Pick who were veritable flashes in the pan. I won the 2006 EPA for Photo Art and I very rarely post there. While that image did require some work and creativity to produce and I'm proud of it I somehow don't think it has done as much to enrich the lives and stimulate the creativity and/or enhance the skill level of the folks whose images I comment on. >=))>
We're all busy, and knowing how hard it is to find time myself, I appreciate ANY time that someone has to post a comment. That includes the short and concise comments, as well as the more involved ones. From being out here for a number of years, one thing that's quite obvious is that the quality of photos posted has improved greatly. Much of that is due to feedback through the comments. With the improved quality, I find myself often posting short blurbs to acknowedge the beauty of a photograph, and how much I appreciate it. There's simply not as much to nit-pick about as there used to be!!
As for recognizing people...I like it. It encourages participation. To be honest, there's a (thankfully small) group of photographers on NPN where I won't ever comment on a photo, given the complete lack of reciprocal participation by the photographer. What I find especially annoying are the photographers in this group that post a photo and explicitly ask for feedback, even though the photographer has fewer comments than personal photo posts. It's the reciprocal participation, the reciprocal sharing and enjoyment of each other's photos, that I really treasure with NPN.
I also concur with the practice of recognizing those whose participation is above and beyond the norm, or those who have a long record of regular participation. We have weekly and annual recognition of great photos - it has been suggested to do something similar for those who go the extra mile to comment and help others. It's a good idea, IMO...
As for having a baby "not being hard to do", I beg to differ. I was in the room with my wife when she gave birth to our son and I can assure you, it wasn't "easy". You have already said that you weren't trying to offend anyone with that comment but frankly, I don't see how it can be taken as anything but offensive. Mad props to every mom who has ever gone through that ordeal. If men had to birth the children, I have no doubt the human race would be in serious decline.