Posted by Barry Southon on November 21, 2010 at 4:42 PM
Garden City Kansas hosted the "Gathering of the Eagles" Federal licensed Falconers last week.
So I turned up and asked if I could shoot some birds in flight and wow these guy's and ladies could not have been more accommodating to a total stranger.
Cotton tailed rabbits and jack rabbits were the prey and I have a great record of shots at all stages plenty of near misses. The rabbits aren't fools.
Female Golden Eagles hunting before my lens I'm still buzzing.
Canon 1D3 Canon 800mm ISO800 f/7.1 1/1000sec.
Critique Advice Comments most welcome
Thanks for looking.
Posted by Geoffrey Baker on November 21, 2010 at 5:50 PM
What a beautiful bird
Well captured.
Geoff.
Posted by John Robinson on November 21, 2010 at 6:14 PM
Barry
I wondered about this too but like Jules thought I,d miss read it.
Certainly illegal in this country..
Cheers John
Posted by Barry Southon on November 21, 2010 at 7:03 PM
Perhaps I've not made it clear yes it's a captive Golden Eagle one of a number that falconer's need to be licenced by their respective state and they also hold Federal licence in order to have possession of the bird.
Let me make it very clear that the hunting of rabbits is not as Jules suggests for the viewing pleasure of the public. It is after all a common preditor and prey scenario. I plus the landowner were the only people other than the falconer's present.
With the greatest respect to you and your knowledge on the subject, I beg to differ albeit let's be sure we are talking about the same thing. I know of licenced Falconers in the UK that fly Golden Eagles that hunt prey. So I'm lost on the illegal aspect suggested.
Jules suggestion of viewing pleasure of the public is totally wrong and adds an incorrect aspect.
I trust that I have made the position clear.
Posted by John Robinson on November 21, 2010 at 7:14 PM
Hi Barry
Just to clarify what I was trying to say.
It is true that falconers are allowed to hunt "wild" prey with the appropriate bird licences and landowner permission etc.
How ever, if I went with a falconer and he hunted with the bird as I have just mentioned, there is not much chance of me being in the right place to take pictures when the kill was made. I have not heard of falconers in this country "releasing" prey for their birds to catch. They probably do it though. Smacks of Hare coursing.
The only way that I can see it working is if the wild released animals range was restricted in some way. If that wasn't done then its legal.
As far as I know its illegal in this country to use live captive prey . Don't know about mealworms though I know its illegal to feed live mice to snakes !
What about for example feeding fish in a restricted area (bowl ) for Kingfishers etc
I think live baiting for pike is now illegal too.
Could be a grey area but a very interesting one.
Cheers
John
Posted by Rob Howard on November 21, 2010 at 7:31 PM
Hi John,
Dont want to stray off topic. But yes your right it is illegal in the UK to release a captive wild animal for a bird to take, these are called "baggies". These field meets work on the basis that the falconer uses a dog, normally a pointer, to find quarry, dog goes on point, the flush is called, bird is slipped, form that moment on, its bird versus quarry, I have a female harris hawk and she misses more than she catches.
Regards
Rob
Posted by Barry Southon on November 21, 2010 at 7:38 PM
John
Rest assured I stand with you one hundred percent from your statement in respect of released prey.
This is not such a scenario the prey are common wild rabbits which may or may not be present. From my photographic records I can also demonstrate that the raptors skills are serverly tested the failure rate is high. Rabbits are pery to a number of preditor's in this location and have skills of their own which outwit the preditor.
As to being in the right place to take pictures this is an interesting point and one that I was surprised to see. The four thousand acre farm was vast and flat and had what seemed a plentyful supply of prey so much so that three of four jack rabbits would break cover at the same time this seemed to confuse the eagle which then went to ground. Thus the photographic oportunity was enhanced. Either it was a quick capture or game over and the prey escaped.
Posted by Andy Shepherd on November 21, 2010 at 7:43 PM
Sorry to hijack your post, Barry. But I too would like to know if it's illegal to place live fish in a glass tank and use them to bait Kingfishers. I've heard of photographers using this method just to bag a shot and often wondered if it was legal, maybe Julian, with his legal background can throw some light on this matter?
Andy...
Posted by Barry Southon on November 21, 2010 at 7:55 PM
No problem Andy this has raised all sorts of interesting points, but moreover it's highlighted the need to state the correct circumstances to avoid wrong conclusions being drawn.
Just to help John get off to sleep evidence as confirmed by Rob.
Please note the Jack Rabbit's ear's waving goodbye.
Posted by Andrew Mason on November 22, 2010 at 4:48 AM
Whilst I believe that a healthy debate about the ethics of wildlife photography is important, it is probably a very good idea for us all to avoid any speculation on the finer points of law relating to certain practices that may or may not be involved in wildlife photography. This is especially true if one is not legally qualified and licensed to practice in this specific area of law. It is also worth bearing in mind that laws do differ in different countries and what may be permitted in one country may be prohibited in another.
Personally, I would not want to cast any aspersions about the practices carried on by any other photographer, in case they are proven to be defamatory, not that I am suggesting that this has happened here.
Andrew
Posted by Ian Macdermott on November 22, 2010 at 6:07 AM
Hi Barry
You must be well pleased with the shot of the Eagle
This forums only asks that what is presented is about nature photography and is legal in the country that the photograph takes place. One assumes that this is a legal practice in America, Barry?
All, your options of how this photo was arrived at, whilst valid to you, are not really what this critique form is about and you all should have learnt this by now. May be when we have a discussion forum (and one is coming) we can have this type of discussion without hijacking an individuals request for critique.
The issue of baiting, live or otherwise, have been discussed infinitum on this forum as has the associated issue of how sentient the bait is. View the archives please.
So park the digs and critique the image.
T
Posted by Andy Shepherd on November 22, 2010 at 8:56 AM
Hi Barry,
Sorry for getting sidetracked when the legals were brought into your post.
It's a cracking shot and I can see why you are very pleased with it, I've seen a big improvement in your photography over the last few months so keep em coming.
Andy...
Posted by Paul Rosser on November 22, 2010 at 3:34 PM
A nice image of a magnificent bird!
Regards,
Paul Rosser.
Posted by Guy Rogers on November 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM
Hello Barry.
Lovely capture of the Eagle and I like the setting very much.
The only nit for me and it might just be me, is if it needs to be rotated CCW a little. I say this as all the OOF vegetation seems to be leaning to the right.
Posted by Barry Southon on November 23, 2010 at 3:53 PM
Guy
Thanks, me thinks you're right but it may well have been the wind blown direction of the grass.
Discussion
15 repliesSo I turned up and asked if I could shoot some birds in flight and wow these guy's and ladies could not have been more accommodating to a total stranger.
Cotton tailed rabbits and jack rabbits were the prey and I have a great record of shots at all stages plenty of near misses. The rabbits aren't fools.
Female Golden Eagles hunting before my lens I'm still buzzing.
Canon 1D3 Canon 800mm ISO800 f/7.1 1/1000sec.
Critique Advice Comments most welcome
Thanks for looking.
Well captured.
Geoff.
I wondered about this too but like Jules thought I,d miss read it.
Certainly illegal in this country..
Cheers John
Let me make it very clear that the hunting of rabbits is not as Jules suggests for the viewing pleasure of the public. It is after all a common preditor and prey scenario. I plus the landowner were the only people other than the falconer's present.
With the greatest respect to you and your knowledge on the subject, I beg to differ albeit let's be sure we are talking about the same thing. I know of licenced Falconers in the UK that fly Golden Eagles that hunt prey. So I'm lost on the illegal aspect suggested.
Jules suggestion of viewing pleasure of the public is totally wrong and adds an incorrect aspect.
I trust that I have made the position clear.
Just to clarify what I was trying to say.
It is true that falconers are allowed to hunt "wild" prey with the appropriate bird licences and landowner permission etc.
How ever, if I went with a falconer and he hunted with the bird as I have just mentioned, there is not much chance of me being in the right place to take pictures when the kill was made. I have not heard of falconers in this country "releasing" prey for their birds to catch. They probably do it though. Smacks of Hare coursing.
The only way that I can see it working is if the wild released animals range was restricted in some way. If that wasn't done then its legal.
As far as I know its illegal in this country to use live captive prey . Don't know about mealworms though
What about for example feeding fish in a restricted area (bowl ) for Kingfishers etc
I think live baiting for pike is now illegal too.
Could be a grey area but a very interesting one.
Cheers
John
Dont want to stray off topic. But yes your right it is illegal in the UK to release a captive wild animal for a bird to take, these are called "baggies". These field meets work on the basis that the falconer uses a dog, normally a pointer, to find quarry, dog goes on point, the flush is called, bird is slipped, form that moment on, its bird versus quarry, I have a female harris hawk and she misses more than she catches.
Regards
Rob
Rest assured I stand with you one hundred percent from your statement in respect of released prey.
This is not such a scenario the prey are common wild rabbits which may or may not be present. From my photographic records I can also demonstrate that the raptors skills are serverly tested the failure rate is high. Rabbits are pery to a number of preditor's in this location and have skills of their own which outwit the preditor.
As to being in the right place to take pictures this is an interesting point and one that I was surprised to see. The four thousand acre farm was vast and flat and had what seemed a plentyful supply of prey so much so that three of four jack rabbits would break cover at the same time this seemed to confuse the eagle which then went to ground. Thus the photographic oportunity was enhanced. Either it was a quick capture or game over and the prey escaped.
Andy...
Just to help John get off to sleep evidence as confirmed by Rob.
Please note the Jack Rabbit's ear's waving goodbye.
Personally, I would not want to cast any aspersions about the practices carried on by any other photographer, in case they are proven to be defamatory, not that I am suggesting that this has happened here.
Andrew
You must be well pleased with the shot of the Eagle
Hope to see some more later.
All, your options of how this photo was arrived at, whilst valid to you, are not really what this critique form is about and you all should have learnt this by now. May be when we have a discussion forum (and one is coming) we can have this type of discussion without hijacking an individuals request for critique.
The issue of baiting, live or otherwise, have been discussed infinitum on this forum as has the associated issue of how sentient the bait is. View the archives please.
So park the digs and critique the image.
T
Hi Barry,
Sorry for getting sidetracked when the legals were brought into your post.
It's a cracking shot and I can see why you are very pleased with it, I've seen a big improvement in your photography over the last few months so keep em coming.
Andy...
Regards,
Paul Rosser.
Lovely capture of the Eagle and I like the setting very much.
The only nit for me and it might just be me, is if it needs to be rotated CCW a little. I say this as all the OOF vegetation seems to be leaning to the right.
Thanks, me thinks you're right but it may well have been the wind blown direction of the grass.