Posted by Harley Goldman on December 16, 2010 at 11:20 AM
Now that the CANP IC gallery has been up a while, we are curious how you like it.
Do you think it is an improvement to our regional forum? Do you like it better than the way we used to post images (on the forum as topic with no thumbnail) or do you prefer the old way?
I like the thumbnails but I'm not sure the limited traffic warrants breaking them up. Seems if you really want a critique people post in ESS, Avian, etc rather than regional.
I totally agree with Jason's comment about overall traffic review to post in main galleries. I do think it's a good idea for the separation in the regional forum however. As it is now.
Originally when I first joined NPN I did not even realize that there were regional groups being offered. I do think the original idea and intent for the forums was for discussion only. But, as time went by there seemed to be more and more image posting in the forums. As such I think most folks only posted images from the given region in the local forum. But even that seemed to be a bit of a mixed bag after awhile.
With that all said, a suggestion I thought might be best all around would be that folks would only be able to post images in the galleries, however, those images would then appear in the persons home regional area as well. Some thought of a modified version of that might work for all needs. Obviously that would bring ALL images in, not just ESS. It might introduce those a bit more to the other galleries not generally visited.
Posted by Jason Kim on December 17, 2010 at 12:20 AM
I think it's cool to have our own critique forum, but at the same time, it feels like it's hidden away and I often forget to check in. I would agree with the other Jason that I'm not sure the limited traffic warrants breaking them up.
Back to my original idea when I first started here at NPN. At that time I suggested that images being posted in one of the main galleries would have an option box that could be checked to include a line item link in the regional forum main posting list. Basically just the name of the image would appear in the forum posting list and link to the image. This would eliminate the need to double post the image but also provide yet another access point for anyone who may have missed the image in a main gallery. This would possibly increase the number of reviews of the image as well as eliminating the split comments with any and all comments being on the original image. For those posting in other then ESS galleries this might increase reviews and comments from regional folks too. As always........just my 2 cents worth.
Would it help if I put a link to the CANP critique gallery in the nav bar in our CANP header/banner?
--P
Posted by Lon Overacker on December 17, 2010 at 9:04 PM
Judging by the large number of responses so far, I'd say the activity here is pretty slow these days. I'm sure in large part to the time of the year. I know I haven't participated as much either.
IMHO, I don't see the regional forum, at least our CANP as a Critique forum. Yeah, I've posted some images for sharing and perhaps as a test for later posting in ES&S, but for the most part I just look at it as a place where we have common ground, and that is location. Although we don't do much of it, the potential for local get togethers, sharing local/CA information about photo events and opportunities is the value I see.
At least for me, the new Regional IC Galleries are just more places to go and I think it just dilutes the experience on NPN. Perhaps I'm biased because I moderate ES&S and I spend 98.975% of my time there, but I'm one who checks only a few places on NPN and having more galleries or forums to go to doesn't increase or improve my experience. But that's just me.
Ballpark, looks like the average number of comments is probably 5 and the views less than 100.
I don't dislike the new IC Gallery, I personally probably won't participate very much.
C'mon folks, where are the rest of you? Any opinions?
the new Regional IC Galleries are just more places to go and I think it just dilutes the experience on NPN.
I guess in around about way this was a point I was trying to make too. I see the actual viewing as well as commenting going in a variety of directions. However, if the images got posted in the main galleries with a link appearing in the regional areas it could receive viewing and comments coming in from two directions but appear only on the one image.
The idea would be totally optional from both sides. The person posting in a main gallery could check the box of the regional group they cared to show the image in or not, and those looking in on the regional forum could elect to click on the link back to main image posted for a review. They could comment or merely just drop right back to the forum. In fact, the images that were setup for a regional link and then appeared in the forum listing would be the same ones used for Cover Shots and other promotional ideas as well.
I've obviously burned up a lot more then my 2 cents worth on this, but just trying to support some open discussion and ideas overall.
Posted by Lon Overacker on December 18, 2010 at 5:30 PM
Paul,
I really like your idea Paul and you should run it by Jim. I suspect though, knowing a little bit about databases and programming for the web, I think there would probably have to be a major rewrite of code to accomplish posting the image from two different pages. I'm sure it could be done, but just not as simple as adding a check box.... But I think you could run it by Jim, at least give it a shot.
Hey Lon, I hope I'm kind of explaining things right overall. I've forgotten anything and everything I ever knew about web site management and code writing.
The amount of photo management would be simpler IMO. The image gets posted in the required gallery as usual. At that point in time the person has an option to check a box that would additionally post only a link in the forum list with the Image Name.
Basically really cutting down on the overall image storage issues and in my mind cut down the requirements for total storage.
The link being posted in the forum is only a hot link back to the original post. In fact, if it were a CANP person posting an image from Colorado they may want to check the box going to RMNP region instead of CANP region. Additionally, to limit the craziness they would only be allowed a choice of one region per post.
Hope this makes sense.
I truly think this should be a bit of group thinking in the end to present it to Jim. As obviously it changes the entire site with rewrites overall. Let's see if others are interested in passing this on to Jim.
"The image gets posted in the required gallery as usual. At that point in time the person has an option to check a box that would additionally post only a link in the forum list with the Image Name."
I've given this some thought, Paul...
In my opinion, people want to see an image when a post opens and be able to comment on it, should they so choose. Following yet another link, would be time consuming, and they may say, 'To heck with this.' Also, some folks, myself included, will not blindly click a link.
Also, to do as you suggest would require some pretty tricky scripting, database dev and management. Writing such would be costly, I think.
That's my 2.5 cents. If the consensus is to make the suggestion to Jim, I am willing to do it on our collective behalf.
In my opinion, people want to see an image when a post opens and be able to comment on it, should they so choose. Following yet another link, would be time consuming, and they may say, 'To heck with this.' Also, some folks, myself included, will not blindly click a link.
Preston, I think I've just muddied the waters. That's easy for me to do at times.
The entry in CANP would be minimal and require only one click to see the image. It would be listed as any Topic in the forum. When you clicked on the Topic item listed you would immediately link to the image in the given gallery at the commenting level. At that level you can easily comment, review larger image, see others comments, etc. As far as being a blind link, I could not agree more on that issue, however, in this case it is a link being injected directly from the image being posted in the gallery as an optional item to be chosen by the posting person. Additionally, you would see the Image Name and the person who posted it no different then any subject being posted in a regional forum now. If the person did not want to comment after opening the image they would just merely arrow back and you're right where started from in the regional forum topic area.
I did not mean to make this a big deal, but only felt that it was a workable scenario IMO. With that all said I'll start paddling back to where I came from.
Ah, now I see what you're saying, Paul. Hmmm? What you are suggesting could work from a navigation point of view, but the kicker would be the programming, and only Dave The Programmer (via Jim) could tell us that.
We would still like to hear from the other CANPers, though. So, c'mon kids; what would you like to see? The NPN staff wants to make NPN the best spot on the Web for nature photography, and we need your input.
Many Thanks,
--P
Posted by Craig Myers on December 19, 2010 at 5:56 PM
Why not make the critique gallery our default forum with a link to the discussion forum?
As you probably know, you can reach the CANP Gallery directly from the Galleries menu at the very top of the page. You can reach the CANP Forum from the Forums menu. These items are links to the default pages for the Gallery and Forum, respectively.
Another option, and what I have done, is open each forum or gallery I am interested in and then create a link in 'Favorites' in I.E 8. Works great.
If the foregoing is not what you meant, please let me know.
--P
Posted by Craig Myers on December 20, 2010 at 12:53 AM
Preston,
Sorry, I didn't think through my post very carefully. I guess really what I am thinking is that either instead of, or in addition to the link to the regional discussion forum in the New Posts e-mail we receive, there be a direct link to the regional IC gallery whenever new images are posted.
Craig
Posted by Jared Atencio on December 21, 2010 at 2:19 AM
First off, I would like to introduce myself as a new member to the CANP forum. I am a recent transplant from the RMNP forum, recently moving from Denver, CO to the Monterey Bay area here in CA. I will post a separate post soon with more info, but wanted to chime in on this discussion.
Although I was a newer member to NPN, I learned an unspoken difference between a Regional post and an ESS post. Many times members would post to either one or the other, and on rare occasions both, but those were usually exceptions. The Regional forums seemed to be more for photos that maybe were not exactly up to par to share on ESS, but were still worth sharing with the regional group and furthermore provided valuable regional insights such as trail/road conditions, color/fauna updates, etc. They may ask for critiques on images posted, but it seemed to be done in a lighter and less formal fashion. I think part of the reason the RMNP forum is so active is that it contains content (read: photos and information), so people could SEE new areas, get new ideas of nearby places to shoot, new experimental techniques etc.
Photos that members reserved to post to ESS were usually the top pic(s) from an outing or one that people wanted more critical feedback on. For instance if I had never shot night photography and I had my first night photos, I would usually post them to the regional forum first to get feedback, provide my technique (maybe someone else is curious), and work in this environment until I got a result I was comfortable posting on ESS for all to critique.
I don't know if this is the way other regional forums are modeled as well, but have noticed that the CANP forum is much less active than the RMNP forum, but it would be great to increase activity here and make this regional forum the asset and hub of information it could be. In my opinion this starts in the regional forums offering something not found in the main photo galleries.
As for the question posed, I think the ICG doesn't really have a purpose right now. Images that are "serious" I feel people post to ESS to reach a wider audience and get more formal critiques. If people just wanted "regional" critique, I think it would be more beneficial for them to post a photo in the forum itself, share their trip report if desired, and for members to offer critique there. The ICG gets lost in this and is one more destination that people have to go to that really isn't worth the extra navigation when it could all be done in the regional forum. If there was a "checkbox" for posters that would post a link regionally in the forum, I believe it would dilute the forum even further (people wouldn't even look at the posts-they'd know it was simply a link to ESS).
This is just my 2 cents as well. I didn't mean to come into the group like this and don't mean any disrespect, but as I said, it would be great if we could make this forum more active and make this forum more of a destination for people from other regions AND our own members alike. This starts with people posting more (trying to post actual content), content will then attract members to view and follow the forum closer and more frequently, and if people left honest comments, kudos, and critiques-no matter how insignificant they may seem, this would provide encouragement for posters to post more, and open the door for people to speak their mind. Isn't that the beauty of a forum? Glad we are all trying to brainstorm and make this forum work for all, I look forward to being a part of this group!
Jared, hello & welcome to the CANP forum. You're correct on several points and it's pretty much how things have evolved overall at NPN throughout.
My suggestion was made at least 4 or more years ago now and was only reintroduced here now as a thought of preventing further dilution, not introduce more. As there is more and more splinter galleries developing it spreads the viewing and commenting in a variety of directions as I see it.
However, I do see reasons for and have posted images in the regional forums for the same things you mentioned, such as; a regional travel point, location specific, and previewing for post processing ideas before posting to another specific gallery like ESS.
Truthfully, as things are setup right now it will no doubt work as well as the concept was intended to at this point in time. In fact things at NPN have been working outstandingly for over 10 years now.
As you put it, the brainstorming is what it's all about and I know both Preston and Harley are glad to see and want as many positive thinking ideas as possible. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Posted by Jared Atencio on December 21, 2010 at 12:48 PM
Thanks Paul,
After writing my thoughts last night, I checked back in on the CANP ICG and was actually pleasantly surprised at the level of activity there. I hadn't checked in on it in a while, but seems like people are posting there, providing feedback, and writing short trip reports-which is great. If that's the format that works for people here, I am all for it. It seems like most people on NPN are photo driven (we ARE photogs afterall), so the pages where there are the most images posted seem to get the most traffic. If that's the case, I foresee the ICG getting much more traffic and the actual CANP Regional Forum slowing down even more? Not saying that's a bad thing, if there is an increased level of activity elsewhere, such as the ICGs. Based on the amount of content and activity in the ICGs, it seems to be working for this group? Looking forward to others chiming in one way or the other.
Hi, Everyone - I've been watching how things evolved with the new CA critique gallery.
I can't say I'm a fan.
I don't like having to post the same image a second time, to have it considered for the monthly CA cover shot. I personally like the CA forum as it was - a place to ask questions and post information, as well as images for "local" critique.
IMO, there are too many forums on NPN, and they dilute the intent. I still go only to "all Galleries" and choose the photos I'm interested in to open, and then to the "All topics" for the general forums and again choose the info I want.
I won't and can't spend any more time around here, and having many more forums/galleries seems to me to only create more overall confusion as to the intent of each Gallery and when/where to post images..
Thanks for you comments. We appreciate your input.
Images posted in our CANP Critique Gallery are automatically considered for the CANP monthly cover shot image. There is no need to post them twice.
And, just a note to all CANPers: If you have an image you want to be considered for the NPN Weekly Picks, it must be posted in one of the non-regional group galleries, such as Avian, ESS, Fauna, Flora, etc,
Discussion
22 repliesDo you think it is an improvement to our regional forum? Do you like it better than the way we used to post images (on the forum as topic with no thumbnail) or do you prefer the old way?
Any feedback would be most appreciated!
Thanks,
Harley and Preston
Originally when I first joined NPN I did not even realize that there were regional groups being offered. I do think the original idea and intent for the forums was for discussion only. But, as time went by there seemed to be more and more image posting in the forums. As such I think most folks only posted images from the given region in the local forum. But even that seemed to be a bit of a mixed bag after awhile.
With that all said, a suggestion I thought might be best all around would be that folks would only be able to post images in the galleries, however, those images would then appear in the persons home regional area as well. Some thought of a modified version of that might work for all needs. Obviously that would bring ALL images in, not just ESS. It might introduce those a bit more to the other galleries not generally visited.
Would it help if I put a link to the CANP critique gallery in the nav bar in our CANP header/banner?
--P
IMHO, I don't see the regional forum, at least our CANP as a Critique forum. Yeah, I've posted some images for sharing and perhaps as a test for later posting in ES&S, but for the most part I just look at it as a place where we have common ground, and that is location. Although we don't do much of it, the potential for local get togethers, sharing local/CA information about photo events and opportunities is the value I see.
At least for me, the new Regional IC Galleries are just more places to go and I think it just dilutes the experience on NPN. Perhaps I'm biased because I moderate ES&S and I spend 98.975% of my time there, but I'm one who checks only a few places on NPN and having more galleries or forums to go to doesn't increase or improve my experience. But that's just me.
Ballpark, looks like the average number of comments is probably 5 and the views less than 100.
I don't dislike the new IC Gallery, I personally probably won't participate very much.
C'mon folks, where are the rest of you? Any opinions?
Lon
I guess in around about way this was a point I was trying to make too. I see the actual viewing as well as commenting going in a variety of directions. However, if the images got posted in the main galleries with a link appearing in the regional areas it could receive viewing and comments coming in from two directions but appear only on the one image.
The idea would be totally optional from both sides. The person posting in a main gallery could check the box of the regional group they cared to show the image in or not, and those looking in on the regional forum could elect to click on the link back to main image posted for a review. They could comment or merely just drop right back to the forum. In fact, the images that were setup for a regional link and then appeared in the forum listing would be the same ones used for Cover Shots and other promotional ideas as well.
I've obviously burned up a lot more then my 2 cents worth on this, but just trying to support some open discussion and ideas overall.
I really like your idea Paul and you should run it by Jim. I suspect though, knowing a little bit about databases and programming for the web, I think there would probably have to be a major rewrite of code to accomplish posting the image from two different pages. I'm sure it could be done, but just not as simple as adding a check box.... But I think you could run it by Jim, at least give it a shot.
Lon
The amount of photo management would be simpler IMO. The image gets posted in the required gallery as usual. At that point in time the person has an option to check a box that would additionally post only a link in the forum list with the Image Name.
Basically really cutting down on the overall image storage issues and in my mind cut down the requirements for total storage.
The link being posted in the forum is only a hot link back to the original post. In fact, if it were a CANP person posting an image from Colorado they may want to check the box going to RMNP region instead of CANP region. Additionally, to limit the craziness they would only be allowed a choice of one region per post.
Hope this makes sense.
I truly think this should be a bit of group thinking in the end to present it to Jim. As obviously it changes the entire site with rewrites overall. Let's see if others are interested in passing this on to Jim.
I've given this some thought, Paul...
In my opinion, people want to see an image when a post opens and be able to comment on it, should they so choose. Following yet another link, would be time consuming, and they may say, 'To heck with this.' Also, some folks, myself included, will not blindly click a link.
Also, to do as you suggest would require some pretty tricky scripting, database dev and management. Writing such would be costly, I think.
That's my 2.5 cents. If the consensus is to make the suggestion to Jim, I am willing to do it on our collective behalf.
What say you, folks?
--P
Preston, I think I've just muddied the waters. That's easy for me to do at times.
The entry in CANP would be minimal and require only one click to see the image. It would be listed as any Topic in the forum. When you clicked on the Topic item listed you would immediately link to the image in the given gallery at the commenting level. At that level you can easily comment, review larger image, see others comments, etc. As far as being a blind link, I could not agree more on that issue, however, in this case it is a link being injected directly from the image being posted in the gallery as an optional item to be chosen by the posting person. Additionally, you would see the Image Name and the person who posted it no different then any subject being posted in a regional forum now. If the person did not want to comment after opening the image they would just merely arrow back and you're right where started from in the regional forum topic area.
I did not mean to make this a big deal, but only felt that it was a workable scenario IMO. With that all said I'll start paddling back to where I came from.
We would still like to hear from the other CANPers, though. So, c'mon kids; what would you like to see? The NPN staff wants to make NPN the best spot on the Web for nature photography, and we need your input.
Many Thanks,
--P
As you probably know, you can reach the CANP Gallery directly from the Galleries menu at the very top of the page. You can reach the CANP Forum from the Forums menu. These items are links to the default pages for the Gallery and Forum, respectively.
Another option, and what I have done, is open each forum or gallery I am interested in and then create a link in 'Favorites' in I.E 8. Works great.
If the foregoing is not what you meant, please let me know.
--P
Sorry, I didn't think through my post very carefully. I guess really what I am thinking is that either instead of, or in addition to the link to the regional discussion forum in the New Posts e-mail we receive, there be a direct link to the regional IC gallery whenever new images are posted.
Craig
Although I was a newer member to NPN, I learned an unspoken difference between a Regional post and an ESS post. Many times members would post to either one or the other, and on rare occasions both, but those were usually exceptions. The Regional forums seemed to be more for photos that maybe were not exactly up to par to share on ESS, but were still worth sharing with the regional group and furthermore provided valuable regional insights such as trail/road conditions, color/fauna updates, etc. They may ask for critiques on images posted, but it seemed to be done in a lighter and less formal fashion. I think part of the reason the RMNP forum is so active is that it contains content (read: photos and information), so people could SEE new areas, get new ideas of nearby places to shoot, new experimental techniques etc.
Photos that members reserved to post to ESS were usually the top pic(s) from an outing or one that people wanted more critical feedback on. For instance if I had never shot night photography and I had my first night photos, I would usually post them to the regional forum first to get feedback, provide my technique (maybe someone else is curious), and work in this environment until I got a result I was comfortable posting on ESS for all to critique.
I don't know if this is the way other regional forums are modeled as well, but have noticed that the CANP forum is much less active than the RMNP forum, but it would be great to increase activity here and make this regional forum the asset and hub of information it could be. In my opinion this starts in the regional forums offering something not found in the main photo galleries.
As for the question posed, I think the ICG doesn't really have a purpose right now. Images that are "serious" I feel people post to ESS to reach a wider audience and get more formal critiques. If people just wanted "regional" critique, I think it would be more beneficial for them to post a photo in the forum itself, share their trip report if desired, and for members to offer critique there. The ICG gets lost in this and is one more destination that people have to go to that really isn't worth the extra navigation when it could all be done in the regional forum. If there was a "checkbox" for posters that would post a link regionally in the forum, I believe it would dilute the forum even further (people wouldn't even look at the posts-they'd know it was simply a link to ESS).
This is just my 2 cents as well. I didn't mean to come into the group like this and don't mean any disrespect, but as I said, it would be great if we could make this forum more active and make this forum more of a destination for people from other regions AND our own members alike. This starts with people posting more (trying to post actual content), content will then attract members to view and follow the forum closer and more frequently, and if people left honest comments, kudos, and critiques-no matter how insignificant they may seem, this would provide encouragement for posters to post more, and open the door for people to speak their mind. Isn't that the beauty of a forum? Glad we are all trying to brainstorm and make this forum work for all, I look forward to being a part of this group!
My suggestion was made at least 4 or more years ago now and was only reintroduced here now as a thought of preventing further dilution, not introduce more. As there is more and more splinter galleries developing it spreads the viewing and commenting in a variety of directions as I see it.
However, I do see reasons for and have posted images in the regional forums for the same things you mentioned, such as; a regional travel point, location specific, and previewing for post processing ideas before posting to another specific gallery like ESS.
Truthfully, as things are setup right now it will no doubt work as well as the concept was intended to at this point in time. In fact things at NPN have been working outstandingly for over 10 years now.
As you put it, the brainstorming is what it's all about and I know both Preston and Harley are glad to see and want as many positive thinking ideas as possible. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
After writing my thoughts last night, I checked back in on the CANP ICG and was actually pleasantly surprised at the level of activity there. I hadn't checked in on it in a while, but seems like people are posting there, providing feedback, and writing short trip reports-which is great. If that's the format that works for people here, I am all for it. It seems like most people on NPN are photo driven (we ARE photogs afterall), so the pages where there are the most images posted seem to get the most traffic. If that's the case, I foresee the ICG getting much more traffic and the actual CANP Regional Forum slowing down even more? Not saying that's a bad thing, if there is an increased level of activity elsewhere, such as the ICGs. Based on the amount of content and activity in the ICGs, it seems to be working for this group? Looking forward to others chiming in one way or the other.
I can't say I'm a fan.
I don't like having to post the same image a second time, to have it considered for the monthly CA cover shot. I personally like the CA forum as it was - a place to ask questions and post information, as well as images for "local" critique.
IMO, there are too many forums on NPN, and they dilute the intent. I still go only to "all Galleries" and choose the photos I'm interested in to open, and then to the "All topics" for the general forums and again choose the info I want.
I won't and can't spend any more time around here, and having many more forums/galleries seems to me to only create more overall confusion as to the intent of each Gallery and when/where to post images..
Happy Holidays to all!
Sandy
Thanks for you comments. We appreciate your input.
Images posted in our CANP Critique Gallery are automatically considered for the CANP monthly cover shot image. There is no need to post them twice.
And, just a note to all CANPers: If you have an image you want to be considered for the NPN Weekly Picks, it must be posted in one of the non-regional group galleries, such as Avian, ESS, Fauna, Flora, etc,
--P
Happy New Year!
Sandy
Thanks for the clarification.
Unless there is a major rewrite of the forum software, we'll likely need to continue to post in multiple galleries.
Happy New Year to you, too!
--P