Posted by Paul Horsley on January 8, 2011 at 2:39 PM
How do you large format shooters label your large transparencies. With 35mm I would label the actual frame and with digital the file name is embedded in the meta data.
Here's what I have been doing, I place a piece of masking tape on each holder and write on the ISO and film and then all exposure info when I take the shot. Then when I get the film back I transfer this piece of tape to the top of my print file page.
I am amassing many transparencies and some B&W film negs and am curious to know how you manage your film, for future retrieval purposes and to keep it manageable.
Paul, I've been storing my Medium and Large Format slides for many years all the same way. First and foremost is record keeping, and then the housekeeping part. I built an Excel file years back and categorize by typical classifications. The upside of using the Excel format I have is I can sort very quickly and find the images needed. Many folks have other database type programs they use, Access is just one I know others have used.
Secondly on the housekeeping side I leave all slides in the original acid free slide protectors they come back in from out source processing. Then I use Slide Label Pro III to print Avery type labels using the 80 or 84 per sheet style labels. Those labels are then affixed directly to the plastic sleeves the slides are in. Those sleeves in turn are slid into a Vue-All file hanging sleeve, (6 pocket for 6x7cm & 4 pocket for 4x5inch) with a plastic hanging spine and placed inside a file cabinet inside my office / computer room. Has worked well for me over 15 years now, but again, there are other ways and more up to date no doubt.
Posted by Lon Overacker on January 8, 2011 at 3:57 PM
Paul,
I expect there are as many different methods for keeping track of your transparencies as their are LF photographers... While we do have a fair number of LF shooters here, another great resource that I'm sure you're already aware of is largeformatphotography.info. Check that out and do a search there.
For me, I'm probably more detail oriented that anyone else I've ever shot with. I make notes for each exposure, transfer that to a spreadsheet and also to a MS Access database if the image makes it as far as my website.
I think the key to any method is to have a numbering or labeling convention. Some people just name the image just like they would title an image here on NPN; maybe they add a date or some sequence number. But you need some sort of number/labeling system where you can file and then later retrieve making it as easy as simple as possible. As opposed to flipping through all your binders/drawers looking for an image you shot 10 years ago.
I came up with my numbering scheme over 20 years ago and have stuck with it. Back in "the day" I was told that you shouldn't include the date in your image number/name because that dated the image and publishers always want new and fresh images, not something 20yrs old. Whether that's true or not, I came up with this system:
There is a computer company that serialized their equipment where the first 2 digits were simply the number of years after 1960. So, if the equipment was manufactured in 1986, then the first 2 digits of the sn were 26. The second 2 digits were the week, etc.
So, I simply changed the year to 1970 as the first 2 and after that it's simply a chronological sequence. So starting this year, all my images will be 41XXX where the first image of 2011 will be 41000. Then I add some letters to further classify. SH=standard horiz, SV=standard vert, PH/PV for panos, then I may add CR for cropped or SQ for square, BL for blend, etc. So in my spreadsheets and files, an example of an image label would be: 40120SVCR is the 120th image in 2010 a significant crop from a vertical original.
Probably more info than you're asking for, but it's the basis for everything I need to do with the image later. One note though, I don't number the slides until I get them back from processing and I sort and put them in the slide pages and binders.
In the field, I keep notes on hand-made cards to keep track of all the exposure, lens, film, location, etc. information about the image. I can send you a copy of the little table I created if you like. Some folks just use little paper notebooks you get at the drugstore.
The biggest problem is how does one know which slide goes with which notes? Often times we take multiple images at the same scene or there may be multiple images of similar subjects. For example "black oaks in Yosemite valley" would have meant a dozen images or more from my recent trip to Yosemite.
I got a tip from the LFinfo site about modifying film holders to help indicate a holder number. Without getting in to specifics too much because it's really a visual thing, you simply file some notches on the flap of the film holder. Ya know, the flap that opens up to load/unload the film? Well, when the flap is closed and the darkslide is secure, those notches can be seen on the exposed film. I kinda used a Roman Numeral approach to the numbering scheme. So for example, across the bottom of the flapp, etched with "v's" holder #12 would be notched like this: " v_____v_v"
This isn't foolproof and in reality is only partially helpful. The notches really only show well when there side of the film image is lighter. In other words, if the edge of the film is in shadow, well the exposed film will be dark and you won't see a notch. BTW, this applies to color transparency. It would be the opposite for neg film. But there are enough times where I can distinguish the notches in the exposed film and it helps me sort through my notes so I get the right info with the right image.
Then I transfer all my written notes to a spreadsheet and then I can number them. I simply use a small Avery type label that I write the number on and attach it to the sleeved transparency. In it goes in a 4-up slide page in to a binder.
Here are links to my spreadsheet and field notes examples if you're interested. The field notes I print 2 on an 8.5x11 sheet of paper and then use spray adhesive to mount them to some mat board. I've got tons of it laying around... Makes for a sturdy card to write on. I do with though I would come up with a notebook approach though.
Well, that about sums it up. In reality, I take pretty bad notes and often times I get mixed up, write down the wrong number, forget to make the note or whatever... And I'm typically only exposing 2-300 sheets of film per year, so over that span it's not all that much work.
Hope this helps a little, or at least maybe will spark some ideas for your own system. Masking tape does seem a little crude...
We're minimalists on the info we attach to the image, with the sole focus on the clients we might submit it to: basically title, location and date. They'll be referencing that info in all correspondence with you. In the case of digital submissions of thumbnails prior to sending the chrome to them, obviously we apply the same info to the digital file. That way there's no confusion when they select 2 or 3 out of 40 and ask for the chromes. Additional shooting data is contained in our files.
We still have track feed sheets of labels left over from our 35mm film days and continue to use those for labeling. It's pretty straight forward in Word to pick the font and size appropriate for small printing, then lay out a sheet of labels for our printer. The labels go right on the plastic chrome covers, and if necessary you can use more than one.
I document exposure, location data, and date in a notebook using ID's from each holder. When using quickloads, I write this info on the envelope. After culling, I enter all the data in a section in MS One Note. (I have built an Access database and am slowwwly entering the data.)
Each transparency I decide to keep is assigned a sequential file number in the form xxx-1. The numeral 1 indicates the primary transparency/file. I also assign an indicator of year-season-slide number for season, for example: 10SP15. The transparency was made in 2010 during the spring, and is the 15th. transparency for the season.
I then write a small Avery label with the file numbers, a short title, the date, and location. This label is attached to the tranny/neg sleeve. The transparencies are then stored in archival plastic bags in open boxes. The bags are labeled with the file number range.
In terms of computer files, I use the xxx-y number as the file name, with additons, as follows:
xxx-y-sf or mf, for 'scan file' and 'master file', respectively. If I decide to make a different 'master file', I create a file name like; xxx-2. If I crop the image, I append 'cr' to the file name: xxx-y-cr-mf. If the image is used for the web, I append 'Web' to the file number: xxx-y-cr-Web. I may append other abbreviations as necessary. I use IDImager for my digital file manager.
Paul, as you can see from the replies so far, the systems used are as varied as the individuals who create them. The key is to develop a system that is the easy for you to use and maintain.
Best of luck to you,
--P
Posted by Mel Ladewig on January 9, 2011 at 7:18 PM
This is why I will miss readyloads/quickloads so much.
I shoot around the same volume as Lon. In the field I carry packet film and write the conditions of the film pack. I record the date, description, high, low and selected readings from my spot meter, filters and whatever else about the shot. Then I record that information in PC before I send it to the lab. Excel is my method of choice. Then I add the image file info when I scan it. When I shoot the film in traditional film holders, I try to take a small field notebook with me, but sometimes forget, in which case I try to piece together the relevant info from memory.
The filing part, I'm pretty bad with. I have a flat file full of little boxes of film and it can be a pain to retrieve something later. You can fit ALOT of film into flat file. I've thought about developing a filing system for the better stuff, just haven't figured out the way yet. Maybe that should be my 2011 resolution... or not.
Posted by Darren Huski on January 14, 2011 at 10:13 AM
I guess I am either lazy or something. I only track exposure info if I am testing a new film or lens. When actually shooting I just spotmeter and shoot. Every situation is different so I just trust the meter.
I store images by location in PrintFile sleeves that are put in sealed binders. The binders are labeled by location or if I frequent the area (like Big Bend) by location and year.
I will write notes/ label the sheets for the best images and usually store them in the front of the binder with the second tier images in the back half.
Seems to work for me
Posted by Ben Horne on January 14, 2011 at 11:57 PM
I store mine in PrintFile sleeves, but I don't write down shutter or aperture settings. I haven't found much of a need for that, but I will often remember what settings I used for a given shot.
Posted by Lon Overacker on January 15, 2011 at 1:23 AM
I had a lofty goal at one point thinking I could "learn" from previous exposures. For example, what is the best shutter speed for moving water in a certain situation. If I underexpose V100 vs. Provia 100F what are the differences. In the end, recording the exposure information is just nice to know information, but perhaps one day knowing what lens, film or aperture were used could be beneficial to someone.....
Since Ben has commented here, I am curious if Paul, the OP, has any comments? You asked the question but haven't posted a response? We all have our different ways and methods, but I would be curious to know if any of our responses has helped in any way.
Lon
Posted by Paul Horsley on January 17, 2011 at 1:28 PM
Hi guys,
I apoligise for not posting, I have been following your tips and will be implementing some of your ideas. I currently use Excel for organising my file info, I have nearly all my digital files in there but not my large format info yet.
I agree with you about using the sleeves that the film comes back in but the labs here are not consistent, I have some sleeves that would be big enough for 5X7 and the last batch of film I had processed came back in PrintFile pages! I have lots of Avery stickers from when I was shooting 35mm so I think I will be using that idea and scrap my masking tape
Lon, thanks for the links you included, your 4X5 field notes contains similar info to my Excel file and some extra items that I think I will add to mine. Your info track has similar info to what I have been putting on my tape. I carry a notebook with me to which I add; date, subject, film, ISO, exposure, holder #, filters, movements, and a crude drawing of the scene. So if for some reason I lost my bit of tape I have a visual record of what I shot and the details.
I really appreciate all your info and effort, I will upload some small jpgs to show how I work and my crude ideas.
Thanks again guys.
Paul
Posted by Paul Horsley on January 17, 2011 at 1:30 PM
As a side note I shot some B&W film yesterday, the first time in many many years so I am anxious to see how that worked out.
And our big bonus for our day trip yesterday was rounding a bend in the road a coming face to face with two Cougars. Could be the highlight of the year.
Discussion
10 repliesHere's what I have been doing, I place a piece of masking tape on each holder and write on the ISO and film and then all exposure info when I take the shot. Then when I get the film back I transfer this piece of tape to the top of my print file page.
I am amassing many transparencies and some B&W film negs and am curious to know how you manage your film, for future retrieval purposes and to keep it manageable.
Thanks in advance for helping me out.
Paul
Secondly on the housekeeping side I leave all slides in the original acid free slide protectors they come back in from out source processing. Then I use Slide Label Pro III to print Avery type labels using the 80 or 84 per sheet style labels. Those labels are then affixed directly to the plastic sleeves the slides are in. Those sleeves in turn are slid into a Vue-All file hanging sleeve, (6 pocket for 6x7cm & 4 pocket for 4x5inch) with a plastic hanging spine and placed inside a file cabinet inside my office / computer room. Has worked well for me over 15 years now, but again, there are other ways and more up to date no doubt.
I expect there are as many different methods for keeping track of your transparencies as their are LF photographers...
For me, I'm probably more detail oriented that anyone else I've ever shot with. I make notes for each exposure, transfer that to a spreadsheet and also to a MS Access database if the image makes it as far as my website.
I think the key to any method is to have a numbering or labeling convention. Some people just name the image just like they would title an image here on NPN; maybe they add a date or some sequence number. But you need some sort of number/labeling system where you can file and then later retrieve making it as easy as simple as possible. As opposed to flipping through all your binders/drawers looking for an image you shot 10 years ago.
I came up with my numbering scheme over 20 years ago and have stuck with it. Back in "the day" I was told that you shouldn't include the date in your image number/name because that dated the image and publishers always want new and fresh images, not something 20yrs old. Whether that's true or not, I came up with this system:
There is a computer company that serialized their equipment where the first 2 digits were simply the number of years after 1960. So, if the equipment was manufactured in 1986, then the first 2 digits of the sn were 26. The second 2 digits were the week, etc.
So, I simply changed the year to 1970 as the first 2 and after that it's simply a chronological sequence. So starting this year, all my images will be 41XXX where the first image of 2011 will be 41000. Then I add some letters to further classify. SH=standard horiz, SV=standard vert, PH/PV for panos, then I may add CR for cropped or SQ for square, BL for blend, etc. So in my spreadsheets and files, an example of an image label would be: 40120SVCR is the 120th image in 2010 a significant crop from a vertical original.
Probably more info than you're asking for, but it's the basis for everything I need to do with the image later. One note though, I don't number the slides until I get them back from processing and I sort and put them in the slide pages and binders.
In the field, I keep notes on hand-made cards to keep track of all the exposure, lens, film, location, etc. information about the image. I can send you a copy of the little table I created if you like. Some folks just use little paper notebooks you get at the drugstore.
The biggest problem is how does one know which slide goes with which notes? Often times we take multiple images at the same scene or there may be multiple images of similar subjects. For example "black oaks in Yosemite valley" would have meant a dozen images or more from my recent trip to Yosemite.
I got a tip from the LFinfo site about modifying film holders to help indicate a holder number. Without getting in to specifics too much because it's really a visual thing, you simply file some notches on the flap of the film holder. Ya know, the flap that opens up to load/unload the film? Well, when the flap is closed and the darkslide is secure, those notches can be seen on the exposed film. I kinda used a Roman Numeral approach to the numbering scheme. So for example, across the bottom of the flapp, etched with "v's" holder #12 would be notched like this: " v_____v_v"
This isn't foolproof and in reality is only partially helpful. The notches really only show well when there side of the film image is lighter. In other words, if the edge of the film is in shadow, well the exposed film will be dark and you won't see a notch. BTW, this applies to color transparency. It would be the opposite for neg film. But there are enough times where I can distinguish the notches in the exposed film and it helps me sort through my notes so I get the right info with the right image.
Then I transfer all my written notes to a spreadsheet and then I can number them. I simply use a small Avery type label that I write the number on and attach it to the sleeved transparency. In it goes in a 4-up slide page in to a binder.
Here are links to my spreadsheet and field notes examples if you're interested. The field notes I print 2 on an 8.5x11 sheet of paper and then use spray adhesive to mount them to some mat board. I've got tons of it laying around... Makes for a sturdy card to write on. I do with though I would come up with a notebook approach though.
Well, that about sums it up. In reality, I take pretty bad notes and often times I get mixed up, write down the wrong number, forget to make the note or whatever... And I'm typically only exposing 2-300 sheets of film per year, so over that span it's not all that much work.
Hope this helps a little, or at least maybe will spark some ideas for your own system. Masking tape does seem a little crude...
Lon
We still have track feed sheets of labels left over from our 35mm film days and continue to use those for labeling. It's pretty straight forward in Word to pick the font and size appropriate for small printing, then lay out a sheet of labels for our printer. The labels go right on the plastic chrome covers, and if necessary you can use more than one.
Each transparency I decide to keep is assigned a sequential file number in the form xxx-1. The numeral 1 indicates the primary transparency/file. I also assign an indicator of year-season-slide number for season, for example: 10SP15. The transparency was made in 2010 during the spring, and is the 15th. transparency for the season.
I then write a small Avery label with the file numbers, a short title, the date, and location. This label is attached to the tranny/neg sleeve. The transparencies are then stored in archival plastic bags in open boxes. The bags are labeled with the file number range.
In terms of computer files, I use the xxx-y number as the file name, with additons, as follows:
xxx-y-sf or mf, for 'scan file' and 'master file', respectively. If I decide to make a different 'master file', I create a file name like; xxx-2. If I crop the image, I append 'cr' to the file name: xxx-y-cr-mf. If the image is used for the web, I append 'Web' to the file number: xxx-y-cr-Web. I may append other abbreviations as necessary. I use IDImager for my digital file manager.
Paul, as you can see from the replies so far, the systems used are as varied as the individuals who create them. The key is to develop a system that is the easy for you to use and maintain.
Best of luck to you,
--P
I shoot around the same volume as Lon. In the field I carry packet film and write the conditions of the film pack. I record the date, description, high, low and selected readings from my spot meter, filters and whatever else about the shot. Then I record that information in PC before I send it to the lab. Excel is my method of choice. Then I add the image file info when I scan it. When I shoot the film in traditional film holders, I try to take a small field notebook with me, but sometimes forget, in which case I try to piece together the relevant info from memory.
The filing part, I'm pretty bad with. I have a flat file full of little boxes of film and it can be a pain to retrieve something later. You can fit ALOT of film into flat file. I've thought about developing a filing system for the better stuff, just haven't figured out the way yet. Maybe that should be my 2011 resolution... or not.
I store images by location in PrintFile sleeves that are put in sealed binders. The binders are labeled by location or if I frequent the area (like Big Bend) by location and year.
I will write notes/ label the sheets for the best images and usually store them in the front of the binder with the second tier images in the back half.
Seems to work for me
Since Ben has commented here, I am curious if Paul, the OP, has any comments? You asked the question but haven't posted a response? We all have our different ways and methods, but I would be curious to know if any of our responses has helped in any way.
Lon
I apoligise for not posting, I have been following your tips and will be implementing some of your ideas. I currently use Excel for organising my file info, I have nearly all my digital files in there but not my large format info yet.
I agree with you about using the sleeves that the film comes back in but the labs here are not consistent, I have some sleeves that would be big enough for 5X7 and the last batch of film I had processed came back in PrintFile pages! I have lots of Avery stickers from when I was shooting 35mm so I think I will be using that idea and scrap my masking tape
Lon, thanks for the links you included, your 4X5 field notes contains similar info to my Excel file and some extra items that I think I will add to mine. Your info track has similar info to what I have been putting on my tape. I carry a notebook with me to which I add; date, subject, film, ISO, exposure, holder #, filters, movements, and a crude drawing of the scene. So if for some reason I lost my bit of tape I have a visual record of what I shot and the details.
I really appreciate all your info and effort, I will upload some small jpgs to show how I work and my crude ideas.
Thanks again guys.
Paul
And our big bonus for our day trip yesterday was rounding a bend in the road a coming face to face with two Cougars. Could be the highlight of the year.
Paul