Posted by Bob Ampula on January 16, 2011 at 12:23 PM
Recently purchased a Canon 60D which I am really happy with. Upgraded from a Canon Rebel XTi. I use PS3 for editing and seem to be having problems in processing some of my photos. Am not sure if it is the new technology in the camera with all its new measurements or the software or me. Since I primarily take photos of wildlife that doesn't lend itself to making the settings manually, I process the images in PS3 using the "Open as" feature and do any changes needed in RAW. I have noticed that many of the images need minimum processing so I don't do much more than cropping. When I do more than that, the images seem to lose some sharpness, clarity, etc. A friend of mine tells me that I need to upgrade to CS5 to take advantage of the support for the larger image size but can't tell me anything more than making the general statement. I may just be overprocessing but my trial and error attempts have been very time consuming and not really giving me any results.
Would appreciate any suggestions or comments to help address my confusion, frustration, etc. and tks.
Posted by Buck Ward on January 16, 2011 at 6:30 PM
When you say PS3, I'm assuming you mean Photoshop CS3, not PhotoShop 3.0. Also, I dont understand what you mean about the relationship of RAW, wildlife photos, and manual settings.
If you are losing image quality in the conversion from RAW to JPEG, that's not how it's supposed to work regardless of the file size and regardless of the conversion software. Do you have similar problems when you use Canon's software that came with the camera?
Are you noticing the loss of sharpness and clarity when you compare the original RAW files to JPG conversions side by side in CS3 Bridge?
Do you get different results if you convert from RAW without making any adjustments and then do all the editing in PhotoShop?
I'm using CS3 on an older PC. It handles RAW files from my 1D3 just fine, but It can't handle RAW files from my wife's newer Rebel. I'm surprised that you can convert RAW files in ACR since upgrades for newer cameras for CS3 haven't been available for some time. Don't know how old or how powerful your computer is, but if you're having trouble with the larger file sizes, the culprit may be your hardware rather than your software. If that's the case, upgrading to CS5 could put even more strain on your machine. I have an old laptop that I only use when I'm away from home. CS3 struggles because the laptop only has the minimum amount of RAM that CS3 needs. CS5 wouldn't even run on that old laptop.
You could always download a trial version of CS5 and see if it solves your problems. If it does, there's your answer.
Guess I've raised more questions than answers. Sorry about that.
Posted by Jim Bennett on January 17, 2011 at 12:36 AM
I have found that Photoshop Elements does everything well that I need and you can get the latest Elements 9 for as little as $50.
Posted by Angela McCain on January 17, 2011 at 8:35 AM
3 cheers for Elements-It's what I use and couldn't be happier with it.
Posted by Jim Bullard on January 17, 2011 at 9:03 AM
"I process the images in PS3 using the "Open as" feature and do any changes needed in RAW."
It sounds to me like you are shooting JPG but opening the images in ACR to process them as if they were RAW files. Yes/No? If that is the case then your 'losses' of sharpness and clarity could be the result of shooting in JPG then re-editing and already edited and compressed file (that's what JPG is). A JPG has been edited according to the camera's algorithm and reduced to an 8 bit per channel file so when you try to do any significant further editing you would likely see losses of image quality. If you are shooting JPG, try going to RAW. ACR will still give you a perfectly good JPG conversion while retaining the 16 bit RAW file and it will give the editing space you need for images that require it.
Posted by Bob Ampula on January 17, 2011 at 10:23 AM
Jim's assumptions are correct. His explanation also clears up my confusion and obviously I need to change the way I shoot and/or process images. As always, I knew I could rely on an answer from the folks on this great site. Thanks to all who responded.
Posted by David Bostedo on January 17, 2011 at 11:24 AM
A JPG has been edited according to the camera's algorithm and reduced to an 8 bit per channel file so when you try to do any significant further editing you would likely see losses of image quality.
I don't believe that's true unless the changes are drastic or you do several different sessions. Then over-processing could definitely kick in.
Bob - Could you maybe list your steps 1 by 1 and give some more info on your flow? Maybe something like :
1) Shoot in JPG
2) Import to Bridge in CS3
3) Open JPG in ACR and adjust X, Y, or Z
4) Save at highest quality in Adobe RGB
Or whatever it may be. Maybe we can help pin point some potential issues/pitfalls. While RAW might enable slightly better results, there's no reason your JPGs can't be good, or why you should lose quality from the camera through the software.
Posted by Bob Ampula on January 17, 2011 at 11:43 AM
OK - here is my usual flow:
1. Shoot on automatic on the 60D
2. Import the photos using the Canon s/w that came with the camera, culling out the images that I don't want.
3. Using the Canon s/w, determine which images I want to process.
4. Use ACR in PS CS3 to process the image. This processing is usually limited to making minor adjustments to brightness, contrast, and/or shadows.
5. Save the file using the save function in ACR.
6. Use the saved JPEG version for printing or other uses, sometimes using the "unsharpen" tool.
Thanks David for your interest and response. You certainly helped me with my last challenge and I look forward to your response.
Posted by David Bostedo on January 17, 2011 at 6:04 PM
Quick question - what are your save settings in ACR? What file type, compression, bit depth (8 or 16 bit), and color space?
Posted by Bob Ampula on January 17, 2011 at 8:12 PM
Tthe settings are: JPG; 8 bit; and Adobe RGB. Not sure where to find the compression technique used.
Posted by David Bostedo on January 17, 2011 at 11:39 PM
Sounds fine Bob. I only have CS4 so I can't check CS3, but when I save as JPG, there's a dropdown indicating the quality. Alternatively, you might want to try checking your Camera Raw preferences and see if it's there - or maybe someone with CS3 can point it out. I just want to make sure you're saving at the highest quality.
That's the one thing I can think of when editing JPGs in ACR - I do it fairly frequently and see good results. While the options and some features have changed since CS3, I know that it was a pretty popular thing to do in CS3 too, so I don't think upgrading your software is necessarily the answer.
If the quality setting isn't the issue, then another thing to try is start PS with Ctrl-Alt-Shift held to clear out any corrupted or mistaken settings. (This will clear ALL settings, so you may want to try to note which ones you've changed that you like so you can put them back - or use the save settings feature in PS. Just don't load them all back or you may re-introduce the issue if it's in the settings.)
Posted by Bob Ampula on January 23, 2011 at 12:53 PM
After much more intense effort, I believe that I was just overprocessing the images with which I have had problems. Thanks to all that responded, especially David.
Discussion
11 repliesWould appreciate any suggestions or comments to help address my confusion, frustration, etc. and tks.
If you are losing image quality in the conversion from RAW to JPEG, that's not how it's supposed to work regardless of the file size and regardless of the conversion software. Do you have similar problems when you use Canon's software that came with the camera?
Are you noticing the loss of sharpness and clarity when you compare the original RAW files to JPG conversions side by side in CS3 Bridge?
Do you get different results if you convert from RAW without making any adjustments and then do all the editing in PhotoShop?
I'm using CS3 on an older PC. It handles RAW files from my 1D3 just fine, but It can't handle RAW files from my wife's newer Rebel. I'm surprised that you can convert RAW files in ACR since upgrades for newer cameras for CS3 haven't been available for some time. Don't know how old or how powerful your computer is, but if you're having trouble with the larger file sizes, the culprit may be your hardware rather than your software. If that's the case, upgrading to CS5 could put even more strain on your machine. I have an old laptop that I only use when I'm away from home. CS3 struggles because the laptop only has the minimum amount of RAM that CS3 needs. CS5 wouldn't even run on that old laptop.
You could always download a trial version of CS5 and see if it solves your problems. If it does, there's your answer.
Guess I've raised more questions than answers. Sorry about that.
It sounds to me like you are shooting JPG but opening the images in ACR to process them as if they were RAW files. Yes/No? If that is the case then your 'losses' of sharpness and clarity could be the result of shooting in JPG then re-editing and already edited and compressed file (that's what JPG is). A JPG has been edited according to the camera's algorithm and reduced to an 8 bit per channel file so when you try to do any significant further editing you would likely see losses of image quality. If you are shooting JPG, try going to RAW. ACR will still give you a perfectly good JPG conversion while retaining the 16 bit RAW file and it will give the editing space you need for images that require it.
I don't believe that's true unless the changes are drastic or you do several different sessions. Then over-processing could definitely kick in.
Bob - Could you maybe list your steps 1 by 1 and give some more info on your flow? Maybe something like :
1) Shoot in JPG
2) Import to Bridge in CS3
3) Open JPG in ACR and adjust X, Y, or Z
4) Save at highest quality in Adobe RGB
Or whatever it may be. Maybe we can help pin point some potential issues/pitfalls. While RAW might enable slightly better results, there's no reason your JPGs can't be good, or why you should lose quality from the camera through the software.
1. Shoot on automatic on the 60D
2. Import the photos using the Canon s/w that came with the camera, culling out the images that I don't want.
3. Using the Canon s/w, determine which images I want to process.
4. Use ACR in PS CS3 to process the image. This processing is usually limited to making minor adjustments to brightness, contrast, and/or shadows.
5. Save the file using the save function in ACR.
6. Use the saved JPEG version for printing or other uses, sometimes using the "unsharpen" tool.
Thanks David for your interest and response. You certainly helped me with my last challenge and I look forward to your response.
That's the one thing I can think of when editing JPGs in ACR - I do it fairly frequently and see good results. While the options and some features have changed since CS3, I know that it was a pretty popular thing to do in CS3 too, so I don't think upgrading your software is necessarily the answer.
If the quality setting isn't the issue, then another thing to try is start PS with Ctrl-Alt-Shift held to clear out any corrupted or mistaken settings. (This will clear ALL settings, so you may want to try to note which ones you've changed that you like so you can put them back - or use the save settings feature in PS. Just don't load them all back or you may re-introduce the issue if it's in the settings.)