Because I know even less about processing black and white images on the computer than I know about color images, I'm throwing this one out there for critique.
Please feel free to fire away with comments, critiques, helpful suggestions, and/or smart-ass remarks.
Posted by Bill Bean on January 26, 2011 at 2:37 PM
I'm looking at this on my work monitor which is beastly bad but this image looks great to me. The processing looks fine..I see detail in the shadows where I'd expect detail and the highlights aren't screaming "blown out!" Compositionally I'm blown away. The log brings my eye in and up to the rim and the falling sand brings me back down into the image and let's me explore the edge areas. Personally, I'd really like to see a 16X20 of this in the print exchange on Saturday. Thanks for posting.
Posted by Bill Brennan on January 26, 2011 at 3:07 PM
Caz, first reaction was wow what a nice shot. You understate your BW skills.
In response to your request for critique, you might want to tone down the highlights in the left corner; and see if there are some details in the dark areas in the upper portion of the image. You might also consider a small crop to strengthen the image.
See, why you people been holding out on us? Bill is dead on about the comp being exceptional. I am not that good at conversions, so I'll leave the suggestions to those who are. I do prefer a more contrasty b&w, but not so sure that would work with your soft light. I love that the sandfall is pouring right on the tumbleweed! This is really good stuff, Caz! I am so glad you posted this.
The talent level runs deep on this forum!
Posted by Grant Collier on January 26, 2011 at 4:05 PM
Wow, this is actually quite impressive. Whose web site did you steal this image off of?
The lack of detail in the shadows might normal bug me but I think it works here to make the sandfall stand out more.
Posted by Jared Atencio on January 26, 2011 at 5:41 PM
I've been back to view this a couple of times now, at first the lack of contrast bugged me, but now I kind of like the "softness" to it, and the light and comp are exceptional. Maybe try adding a bit of localized contrast just on the texture of the tree bark in the FG and see if that appeals to you at all?
Bill Bean - Thanks for talking through your viewing process.
Bill Brennan - I really am lousy at the computer part of things. If any of my shots have any appeal to them it's because of what I did "in camera" - but I'm (very) slowly improving my ability to use Lightroom. Also, thanks for the suggestions. I'll attempt to follow them without screwing up the shot.
Morris - Thanks for the kind words.
Grant - We all know I didn't steal it from your site. Thanks for commenting.
Jared - Great suggestion re: the bark. Sounds like a good Lightroom challenge for me.
I like the lack of detail in the shadows, it keeps it somewhat more mysterious. I would definitely punch up the contrast in the bottom third to really showcase the brush and log. But this definitely deserves a spot in your gallery... a big spot!
Posted by Chris Rice on January 26, 2011 at 6:53 PM
What I really like about this shot is, it's sort of an exercise in lightplay. I'm not sure of the pointsource, and that is what totally intrigues me. I think you did a great job with this CAZman.
What works here is that fact that the elements in the bottom of the image are not typically what you'd see in a slot canyon photograph. The fact of the matter being that a viewers eyes go to the brightest part of an image highlights these subjects, then allows your eye to follow the remainder - and the star of the show is that sily smooth sandfall. I remember you showing this to me awhile back and said 'whoa dude', so I'm glad you posted it.
As far as the black and white goes - you killed it. It's supposed to be mysterious. Aleks said it. In my opinion if you were to try to manipulate it any further, you'd be so far away from your vision, whats the point?
Nice work, lets print one up!
Posted by John Mumaw on January 26, 2011 at 7:30 PM
Chris brought out what caught my eye, and that is this is not a typical slot canyon image.
I like everything about this one, CAZ. The light and shadow interplay is excellent, the striped walls near the bottom are interesting, the sandfall on the tumbleweed that's 'embraced' by the log all make exceptionally good compositional elements. Perhaps burning down the lower left corner slightly would keep the image more enclosed, but I have no other suggestions. The b&w conversion is great, but don't take too much credit for it...you had about one primary color to work with.
Now that the obligatory smart ass remark is out of the way, I gotta say that this is an outstanding work of art! Congratulations, my friend.
Posted by Stan Rose on January 26, 2011 at 9:04 PM
I love it, CAZ! Im in a super high contrast frame of mind right now, but be that as it may, my only suggestion is to get some pure whites in there with the white point--to balance the nearly pure black
Posted by Jack Garrett on January 26, 2011 at 10:04 PM
You ARE bringing this to the white elephant aren't you?????? Way to go Caz!!!
Posted by Bret Edge on January 26, 2011 at 10:17 PM
Lookin' good to me, CAZ. I think your b&w skills are excellent. If it were mine, I'd be tempted to dodge the sandfall just a touch to make it pop against the background wall. That's not so much a critique of your b&w processing skills. Rather, it's just a personal preference artistic license kinda thang.
Keep up the great work, my friend!
Posted by Jim Talaric on January 26, 2011 at 10:30 PM
CAZ: Put quite simply...this is the best work from you ever! WOW!
Posted by Paul Wegemann on January 26, 2011 at 10:44 PM
This has to be one of the most unique and beautiful slot canyon images I've seen. I've come back to this image a half dozen times, each time with a small change I thought would be worthwhile, but ultimately, this image doesn't need any work CAZ.. It totally works as is. It's a beautiful work of art. You nailed it, and should be really proud of what you've done here.
Posted by Kalin Wilson on January 26, 2011 at 11:40 PM
Great shot, bud. I agree with most of the suggestions and all of the comments. If it were mine, I think I'd boost the contrast a little between the log and the sand where they are almost the same tone, along with the local midtone contrast to bring out more of the bark texture. I might also bring some shadow detail out in the alcove behind the sandfall, if there is any. I go back and forth between wanting to see something there, thinking the hole breaks up the scene, and liking it as is. Bret's suggestion to dodge the sandfall a tad was on my mind too.
Good work.
Posted by Kane Engelbert on January 27, 2011 at 12:10 AM
Beautiful image. Just love how the light hits the sandfall.
Posted by Scott Bacon on January 27, 2011 at 9:52 AM
Gorgeous image. It's really nice as is. But I'd be tempted play with a few subtle changes to see how they effect the image... Maybe add just a bit of contrast overall. I would NOT mess with the blacks/shadows. Those are awesome. I'd burn/darken the LLC, foreground and the "barky" part of the log. See how cool the sand looks back on the right? A touch of that look in the foreground would be great, if you could get it. But these are all minor, minor tweaks just to experiment with.
Posted by Don Grall on January 27, 2011 at 12:20 PM
This has the feel of a classic desert image rather than a slot canyon image, way to go!
Thank you all for the compliments and suggestions. I have been blown away by the positive response to this image. The fact that I like a particular shot has no bearing on whether or not others will enjoy it so your responses have been both educational and humbling.
I am going to try out the suggestions you all have made and see how they look. If I can get it processed and printed in time, I will bring the final version to the Shindig for entry into the photo swap.
I really can't thank you all enough for all of the help you've provided me,
Thanks everyone (except Jesse ) for all of the fantastic suggestions. By trying them out, whether or not I eventually decided to use them all, I learned a lot more about image processing. I've attached the final version for comparison and, yes, I will enter this shot in the photo swap at the Shindig. (Special recognition should go to Adobe Certified Expert and print maker extraordinaire, Nat Coalson for his guidance on implementing your suggestions and for printing this image for the Shindig.)
Posted by Doug Koepsel on January 28, 2011 at 12:20 PM
CAZ, all those minor tweeks are nicely evident. Cool shot and final product. One of my prior thoughts was to possibly burn the brighter upper spot on the right edge of the image to help keep the eyes to the sandfall and lower area.
Posted by John Mumaw on January 28, 2011 at 6:31 PM
I wasn't expecting this (no *repost* edit in the title).
This version nails it! Cut & print.
Discussion
28 repliesPlease feel free to fire away with comments, critiques, helpful suggestions, and/or smart-ass remarks.
In response to your request for critique, you might want to tone down the highlights in the left corner; and see if there are some details in the dark areas in the upper portion of the image. You might also consider a small crop to strengthen the image.
Bill Brennan
The talent level runs deep on this forum!
The lack of detail in the shadows might normal bug me but I think it works here to make the sandfall stand out more.
Bill Bean - Thanks for talking through your viewing process.
Bill Brennan - I really am lousy at the computer part of things. If any of my shots have any appeal to them it's because of what I did "in camera" - but I'm (very) slowly improving my ability to use Lightroom. Also, thanks for the suggestions. I'll attempt to follow them without screwing up the shot.
Morris - Thanks for the kind words.
Grant - We all know I didn't steal it from your site.
Jared - Great suggestion re: the bark. Sounds like a good Lightroom challenge for me.
Thanks guys!
What works here is that fact that the elements in the bottom of the image are not typically what you'd see in a slot canyon photograph. The fact of the matter being that a viewers eyes go to the brightest part of an image highlights these subjects, then allows your eye to follow the remainder - and the star of the show is that sily smooth sandfall. I remember you showing this to me awhile back and said 'whoa dude', so I'm glad you posted it.
As far as the black and white goes - you killed it. It's supposed to be mysterious. Aleks said it. In my opinion if you were to try to manipulate it any further, you'd be so far away from your vision, whats the point?
Nice work, lets print one up!
I like everything about this one, CAZ. The light and shadow interplay is excellent, the striped walls near the bottom are interesting, the sandfall on the tumbleweed that's 'embraced' by the log all make exceptionally good compositional elements. Perhaps burning down the lower left corner slightly would keep the image more enclosed, but I have no other suggestions. The b&w conversion is great, but don't take too much credit for it...you had about one primary color to work with.
Now that the obligatory smart ass remark is out of the way, I gotta say that this is an outstanding work of art! Congratulations, my friend.
Keep up the great work, my friend!
Good work.
I am going to try out the suggestions you all have made and see how they look. If I can get it processed and printed in time, I will bring the final version to the Shindig for entry into the photo swap.
I really can't thank you all enough for all of the help you've provided me,
This version nails it! Cut & print.