There's every chance this is all a lie. I know this may seem conspiracy madness to some but I was told by a chicken farmer near Edinburgh in December there would be an outbreak near him because Defra said as much to him! He was angry and wanted to spill the beans what his enquiries had discovered. The pattern of media stories and the language they've used throughout (as noticed by John) is classic brainwash / scaremongering that we all know this Gov't is good at. I was closely involved with F&M and know this to have been a load of bull (excuse the pun) - Gov't vets, closed doors, dubious excuses, dubious explanations, inability to vaccinate etc etc. Now the chicken get it - will the wild birds suffer for the sake of political gain? Probably. All flu is bird flu and this particular strain has been around for years if not decades. Same with TB, same with F&M, same with BSE, same with MRSA. There'll soon be someone at your door weilding a syringe to vaccinate you with who knows what if we keep falling for all this rubbish. Just keep an open mind.
Has the species of swan been identified - ie was it a migrating "tundra" swan heading north or a mute swan - if the former there are going to be some worried people in either Norfolk Bristol or near Martin mere......
I see the German infected swans were mute swans (front of Times today) and I think also the Greek bird flu cases involved mute swan, as mute don't have large migration patterns other than juvenile dispersal gatherings, one wonders why as a species they are more susceptable to disease?
Mike
David, to be perfectly honest: yes, it does sound like conspiracy madness!
"there would be an outbreak near him because Defra said as much to him" - is it possible that Defra man may have said this because Edinburgh/Scotland's east coast is on a migratory route, and at least one case may have been considered inevitable?
I'm not saying this *is* the case, but I'm just offering another possibility!
As to the pattern of media stories and the language used, I'd say that's more an indication of the continued 'dumbing down' of the news, fuelled by round-the-clock news and a 'we want breaking news now!' culture, rather than an indication of some huge Gov't conspiracy for whom the media are simply puppets.
Michael,
funny that you should say that the media are being used as puppets for the gov't.
Scientists have for years being putting preasure on various gov'ts to make them realize that there could be a pandemic just around the corner, and that there is no contingency (sp?) plan in place with any of them.
Politicians will not generally act on such advice, as it isn't really a vote winner and costs can spiral out of control very quickly with them, then there's the problem of which dep't gets the responsibility etc.
Any scientist, or academic who is very concerned with the lack of interest from the gov't can quite easilly start a whisper campaign in a friendly newspaper, or tv news program, to generate a bit of public awareness of the possibility that these things can happen, this in turn leads to bigger media groups getting wind of the story and along with plenty of scientists willing to hypothisis and be quoted freely . This in turn leads to a bit of public outcry (esp after such recent events f&m,BSE, eggs etc) and eventually the politicians will be seen to do something.
The something that the politicians are doing is maybe or maybe not for the greater good of the population, but at least they are now doing something about what amounts to nothing but a storm in a tea-cup.
The folks who breed, rear or are otherwise involved in the bird industryare the ones who are going to be hit hard by this, and at the end of the day there is nothing that can be done about it, other than letting it take its own course.
Maybe your premise is right, but my contact said some amazing things I daren't repeat on a public forum. All I'm saying is that the truth is never broadcast, especially by the puppet media (totally correct, the media are not free), and it is wise to question events such as this. By knowing all the alternatives, including conspiracy theory, and being brave enough to question it, is just about the only thing that will stop this madness and this increasingly fascist gov't getting away with anything it wants. I was involved with BSE as well as F&M, because I worked for one Prof Lacey at leeds uni at the time (he who also broadcast the Salmonella in eggs story). What went behind the scenes with this debacle would make people never trust the gov't again (ANY gov't that is). These stories of vaccinations, epidemics, bringing down farming, (not to mention global warming) etc etc is just a part of a bigger agenda that is far more worrying. Step by step is how the players who want to control our minds, money and freedoms (through fear) are operating. Only the truth will set us free.
Edit: I do remeber my friend saying "watch out for yellow fever scares when Bird Flu (allegedly) arrives". Let us see.
I'm sure that, had the internet been around at the time, we'd have been having these same discussions during the great plagues of the middle ages. Humanity survived then, and I'm sure it will now!
NPN and UKNP is generally a zone that is free from politics, hearsay and rumour and provides us all with some relief from the daily grind of the news, media and politicians. Let's keep it that way!
While it is well to debate the in's-and-out's of Bird Flu, I would suggest that you stick with facts, and even better...stick to discussing how it will affect you and your photography .
David: I heard David Icke on the radio last night, and his words were remarkably similar to yours! Have the two of you ever been seen in the same room? (Thought not!)
By the way, you neglected to mention the shape-shifting reptilians who surely have a part to play in this conspiracy somewhere.
"NPN and UKNP is generally a zone that is free from politics, hearsay and rumour and provides us all with some relief from the daily grind of the news, media and politicians. Let's keep it that way! "
This was a suggestion... I suggest that we follow it
..
..
"Note: Tests have shown that 2 out of 3 UKNP moderators prefer the delete key when dealing with non-photography related posts"
Leeds Uni isn't so bad...... I was there between 1986 and 1996. And Jeremy, yes, I've met Mr Icke - don't diss him, he has a lot of stuff worth listening to. Photography is so much more boring.....
As, I believe, mute swans is not classed as migratory one can only be assumed that it was infected by another wild bird therefore 'at large' within Britian please see here...
I see it's now been confirmed as the nasty strain (as if confirmation were needed!).
As for Mute swans being non-migratory, perhaps that adds fuel to the conspiracy theory fire!
Posted by Larry Corbett on April 6, 2006 at 10:53 AM
Do you think they'll shut all the WWT reserves now?? I was planning some springtime photography of ducklings/goslings etc.
Will have to change my plans I guess.
Now then Guys, I just put the original information on here as many of us come into close contact with (feathered) birds and I thought we should be aware of up to date information regarding avian flu, I certainly didn't anticipate a political debate .
Can I draw your attention to the following paragraph from posting headlines:-
"While spirited debate is welcome, please keep all conversation congenial, professional and non-combative. We suggest that you review the basic rules of Netiquette for additional information on effectively communicating with others over the Internet. NPN is strictly dedicated to the art and technique of nature photography and all conversation should pertain directly to it. Discussion of religion, politics/political activism or any other controversial subject that has little or nothing to do with nature photography is strongly discouraged"
Be coooool.
Best wishes
Phil
Posted by Paul Marshall on April 6, 2006 at 11:23 AM
I wouldn't change your plans Larry. Unless things change dramatically I imagine all WWT (and other) reserves will be staying open.
In fact I would encourage as many of you to visit as many WWT reserves as possible over the next few months/years - simply because they are great places for wildlife and in particular photography (plug over )
WWT's position statement stands:
http://www.wwt.org.uk/updates/
The latest theory is that the swan died elsewhere and was washed up on the coast of Fife. The main basis for this seems to be that that virus it had was almost identical to a vrius in birds in north Germany, on the Baltic Sea coast.
Hi Michael - many (but not all!) UK Mute swans have a Swan-mark or are ringed. The Swan mark goes back a long time in UK history to when herds of swans where kept for feasts etc.
Or it may be that the bird was ringed on the continent?
Edit: - It seems they've now decided it's a Whooper (or may be it's a Bewick's )
Discussion
23 replieshttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4881526.stm
Better batten down the hatches.
Phil
Whilst I do recognize this as serious, I really am appalled at the language the BBC are using to report it; a mixture between Newsround and the Sun
John
T
Dave
Read the DEFRA press release here:
http://www.defra.gov.uk/news/2006/060405c.htm
It also just says "a swan"?
I see the German infected swans were mute swans (front of Times today) and I think also the Greek bird flu cases involved mute swan, as mute don't have large migration patterns other than juvenile dispersal gatherings, one wonders why as a species they are more susceptable to disease?
Mike
"there would be an outbreak near him because Defra said as much to him" - is it possible that Defra man may have said this because Edinburgh/Scotland's east coast is on a migratory route, and at least one case may have been considered inevitable?
I'm not saying this *is* the case, but I'm just offering another possibility!
As to the pattern of media stories and the language used, I'd say that's more an indication of the continued 'dumbing down' of the news, fuelled by round-the-clock news and a 'we want breaking news now!' culture, rather than an indication of some huge Gov't conspiracy for whom the media are simply puppets.
funny that you should say that the media are being used as puppets for the gov't.
Scientists have for years being putting preasure on various gov'ts to make them realize that there could be a pandemic just around the corner, and that there is no contingency (sp?) plan in place with any of them.
Politicians will not generally act on such advice, as it isn't really a vote winner and costs can spiral out of control very quickly with them, then there's the problem of which dep't gets the responsibility etc.
Any scientist, or academic who is very concerned with the lack of interest from the gov't can quite easilly start a whisper campaign in a friendly newspaper, or tv news program, to generate a bit of public awareness of the possibility that these things can happen, this in turn leads to bigger media groups getting wind of the story and along with plenty of scientists willing to hypothisis and be quoted freely . This in turn leads to a bit of public outcry (esp after such recent events f&m,BSE, eggs etc) and eventually the politicians will be seen to do something.
The something that the politicians are doing is maybe or maybe not for the greater good of the population, but at least they are now doing something about what amounts to nothing but a storm in a tea-cup.
The folks who breed, rear or are otherwise involved in the bird industryare the ones who are going to be hit hard by this, and at the end of the day there is nothing that can be done about it, other than letting it take its own course.
John
Maybe your premise is right, but my contact said some amazing things I daren't repeat on a public forum. All I'm saying is that the truth is never broadcast, especially by the puppet media (totally correct, the media are not free), and it is wise to question events such as this. By knowing all the alternatives, including conspiracy theory, and being brave enough to question it, is just about the only thing that will stop this madness and this increasingly fascist gov't getting away with anything it wants. I was involved with BSE as well as F&M, because I worked for one Prof Lacey at leeds uni at the time (he who also broadcast the Salmonella in eggs story). What went behind the scenes with this debacle would make people never trust the gov't again (ANY gov't that is). These stories of vaccinations, epidemics, bringing down farming, (not to mention global warming) etc etc is just a part of a bigger agenda that is far more worrying. Step by step is how the players who want to control our minds, money and freedoms (through fear) are operating. Only the truth will set us free.
Edit: I do remeber my friend saying "watch out for yellow fever scares when Bird Flu (allegedly) arrives". Let us see.
Dave.
I'm sure that, had the internet been around at the time, we'd have been having these same discussions during the great plagues of the middle ages. Humanity survived then, and I'm sure it will now!
NPN and UKNP is generally a zone that is free from politics, hearsay and rumour and provides us all with some relief from the daily grind of the news, media and politicians. Let's keep it that way!
While it is well to debate the in's-and-out's of Bird Flu, I would suggest that you stick with facts, and even better...stick to discussing how it will affect you and your photography
Hey Dave, I'm a leeds uni man (been here 20 years), my sentance goes on.......
Tim
By the way, you neglected to mention the shape-shifting reptilians who surely have a part to play in this conspiracy somewhere.
This was a suggestion... I suggest that we follow it
..
..
"Note: Tests have shown that 2 out of 3 UKNP moderators prefer the delete key when dealing with non-photography related posts"
Leeds Uni isn't so bad...... I was there between 1986 and 1996. And Jeremy, yes, I've met Mr Icke - don't diss him, he has a lot of stuff worth listening to. Photography is so much more boring.....
Dave
As, I believe, mute swans is not classed as migratory one can only be assumed that it was infected by another wild bird therefore 'at large' within Britian please see here...
As for Mute swans being non-migratory, perhaps that adds fuel to the conspiracy theory fire!
Will have to change my plans I guess.
Can I draw your attention to the following paragraph from posting headlines:-
"While spirited debate is welcome, please keep all conversation congenial, professional and non-combative. We suggest that you review the basic rules of Netiquette for additional information on effectively communicating with others over the Internet. NPN is strictly dedicated to the art and technique of nature photography and all conversation should pertain directly to it. Discussion of religion, politics/political activism or any other controversial subject that has little or nothing to do with nature photography is strongly discouraged"
Be coooool.
Best wishes
Phil
In fact I would encourage as many of you to visit as many WWT reserves as possible over the next few months/years - simply because they are great places for wildlife and in particular photography (plug over
WWT's position statement stands:
http://www.wwt.org.uk/updates/
Best wishes
Paul
Hmmmm...
Or it may be that the bird was ringed on the continent?
Edit: - It seems they've now decided it's a Whooper (or may be it's a Bewick's
T