So why is everyone on the Nik Silver Efex Pro bandwagon? Is this really worth the $199? I suppose it would be worth seeing how well the prints look from a quad, tri, or duo-tone printer. Until then, I'll stick with the oldschool method of playing with sliders, parameters, layers and masks... (Plus I'm too cheap to buy it). Please answer seriously - I'm considering this if I can make it work with my Epson 9880 - except Todd, you're allowed to give me sh|t (and CAZ).
Thanks everyone.... just a little out of the loop lately...
You've gotta remember that plug-ins simply use the tools available in Photoshop,
although they make much shorter/faster work of the task.
Downloading a trial copy will let you know if it's worth the cost. I'm too cheap to buy Nik products, so I'm stuck doing b&w conversions the 'old fashioned' way.
Christopher: In short, yes - SEP2 is all that and a bag of chips. SEP2 is incredibly powerful and makes the conversion to b&w images a simple, straightforward process. I'll tell you the same thing I tell anyone who asks me about Nik plug-ins: everything you can do with a Nik plug-in can be done in Lightroom and/or Photoshop. Where the Nik plug-ins are so successful is that they make it so much easier to get from point A to point B without having to master complicated selections, masking, luminosity layers, etc. Nik plug-ins flatten out the learning curve so that those of us who would rather be in the field than behind a computer can quickly and easily process images with minimal time staring at a monitor.
All of this applies to SEP2. You can do the exact same thing in LR and PS but it will likely take you a lot less time using SEP2. Yes, I've made both color and b&w prints of images processed with Nik plug-ins on my Epson 2880. I've got zero complaints.
If you're hesitant to drop $200 on SEP2, download the 15 day free trial and give it a spin. If you're comfortable doing things the way you've been doing them, keep on truckin'.
Posted by Jack Garrett on March 8, 2011 at 10:11 PM
Piggybacking on what Bret said, I have problems trying to figure out all the masks and sliders and everything else in photoshop. I'm not lazy but there is a steeper learning curve than I've been able to figure out when it comes to masks and such. That being said, I got a huge discount as an employee rep and I couldn't pass it up....besides, my birthday is SEP2
This is simply awesome software and IMO it is worth the price! Like the other guys said, use the trial version, then make your decision.
Posted by Todd Caudle on March 8, 2011 at 10:14 PM
You'll get no shiat from me, buddy! I suck at conversions using the standard PS options, and had a much easier time of it with the Nik software (trial version, since expired ). If I could afford it, I'd buy the whole damn suite. (Color Efex Pro is mind-blowingly fun!)
FYI, if you download the trial version, when it's close to expiring (they only give you 15 days), they'll offer you a 15% off option. Or you can get the same discount as a NAPP member. Not sure if NANPA membership enjoys the same perk, but if you're a member, it's worth looking into.
Adding to what Todd said, if you'd rather not wait til the end of your trial to possibly get a 15% off coupon you can always use discount code "BEDGE" for 15% off. Which brings me to another point - I'm not sponsored by Nik, I don't get my Nik plug-ins for free and they don't pay me to preach the Nik gospel.
However, if Nik contacted me tonight and offered up a sponsorship you can damn well bet I'd snatch it up. I'll only accept sponsorships from companies whose products I believe in and use regularly (F-Stop Gear), and I have no hesitation recommending the Nik products.
Posted by Todd Caudle on March 8, 2011 at 11:06 PM
Not me, man. I'll accept sponsorship money from whoever offers it to me! "Hi, I'm nationally-acclaimed, award-winning photographer Todd Caudle. Tired of those pesky trees blocking that perfect composition? Take it from me, the new Skil battery-powered chainsaw is the only tool I use for those in-your-way 2,000-year-old bristlecone limbs! Stop by your nearest power tool retailer today, and tell 'em Todd sent you!"
Well, I sure can't justify spending that money with no job, just to maybe make my editing a little easier. My expectation is that a customer buying my photos wouldn't care one way or the other. If they like it and buy it, that's all that matters to me.
For those that have the bucks, it may be worth the editing time saved.
I bought Viveza 2, and I can't imagine doing what it does in Photoshop manually. You select a wheat stalk and then you can apply all of the Saturation and contrast and brightness and Warmth and color hue edits to all of the wheat. Yes, the new selection methods in CS5 do mAke that easier now I admit. But V2 is so good I'm also thinking of SEP2. CEP2 would be great but I already have Phototools. But, B&H has the whole Ultimate Collection for Photoshop for $399 delivered. Seems crazy NOT to get it!
If you sell your work, a tool that makes work faster and maintains quality is not expensive. You expense it like any other business cost. I have used all the Nik tools in my portrait work for years and they have made me money. Same thing with your fine art business.
Joe Rogers
Posted by Jack Garrett on March 9, 2011 at 9:47 AM
I agree with you Joe. Not to brag but I have sold 2 of my "saved" print that I posted the other day. I don't feel like I'm cheating by using the plugins...anything that makes your workflow easier and that helps make the final print better is certainly worth considering. I applaud those who can do the same thing in PS or LR without plugins. I seem to have some sort of mental block when it comes to masks and blends.
Denali from Wonder Lake - Silver Efex Pro 2 B&W Conversion from 35mm Velvia
I have quite a bit of "old-school" darkroom B&W printing experience. I know what makes a good B&W image and print. And while I was pleased with the results of my B&W conversions in Photoshop and Lightroom, it was time consuming. I can now do similar conversions with SEP in about 5 minutes. Also, there are adjustments in SEP that I'd not figured out how to do in PS or LR (I'm sure someone else has). Seriously, it is that good.
I'm not one who goes out and buys the latest "in" thing. I save my money for tools that are worth the price - whether its cameras, glass, or software. So I hesitated spending this much money on a "plug-in." But in this case, it was money well spent. SEP is well worth the cost, IMHO.
Am I the only one that still just used the "old" version of SEP that I had for well over a year? I did a NIK webinar to find out the benefits of the new version and as impressed as I was with it at first, it really wasn't that drastically different. Some of it actually seemed a little cheesey and marketed to the new hype in line with the old HDR hype. Now everyone and their mother can be the new Anel Adams! Thanks Outdoor Photographer Mag for that one...
So I'm sticking with the old one since I think I had some reasonable success with it and I don't see the point to upgrade. But all of that has me craving color all of a sudden, bring on the California sunsets
Posted by Bill Pelzmann on March 9, 2011 at 10:12 AM
Ditto on Brett's comments.
I never considered looking into the NIK suite of software until I saw a wildlife example that Andy Biggs posted on his blog. I had a bias against plug-ins, and preferred to work from scratch with the basic PS and LR tools. My aging brain cells can't deal with much more new software.
Is Silver Efex Pro 2 worth $199? Not for me, because I don't do enough B&W to justify that stand alone price. Buying NIK software ala carte is VERY expensive.
Is the NIK Ultimate Collection for Photoshop/LR/Aperture worth $400. Definitely, yes, for me.
NIK's approach with their local adjustment control points makes post processing enjoyable rather than a PITA to be endured. The NIK interface is intuitive. I'm sure that not many of you would be willing to say that for the equivalent Photoshop alternative.
Note: the Ultimate Collection for just LR/Aperture is $220 at B&H. This provides ALL of the functionality, except you can't save the NIK adjustments as PS layers or SmartObjects.
Adding another piece of expensive software to your toolkit should be done with a lot of consideration and thought. Will you use it enough to justify the cost, and time to learn? In the end, will it make a difference in your final images? Only you can make that call.
I would not purchase any of NIK's products without first making full use of their excellent online resources. There are numerous free webinars throughout the week. Some of these are also available as free online videos. I find these provide the best introduction and use of your time, BEFORE downloading the trial software.
You and me, Aleks. I still use the "old" version of SEP and I will give it up when they pry the mouse from my cold dead fingers. It's a great tool. Like Scott, I have a few thousand hours of B&W printing experience and know a good print when I see one. IMHO the NIK plug in achieves better looking images quicker and easier than LR or PS.
On a related note, I've toyed with the idea of buying the HDR Pro from NIK but every time I get ready to push the button I run across some HDR images that look like cartoons. Maybe someday....
Bill's comments are all quite valid. The training videos and live webinars on the Nik site are invaluable tools, even if you don't use the Nik plug-ins. Watching another photographer walk through his or her workflow while explaining the how and why of each step provides tremendous insight into the artistic side of post-processing.
One small correction: another advantage of using the Nik plug-ins within Photoshop instead of Lightroom is that you can use a brush to selectively apply edits. You can not do this within Lightroom. It isn't something I use often but when I need to do it, I'm glad I've got the capability.
...and chips, and salsa! I have no darkroom, BW experience and am learning by experimenting with conversions. I just wish I had some Scott Bacon Denali images to work with. Wow!
And I've never really liked the challenge of creating a huge stack of layers in PS to make an image presentable. I already had Viveza 1 and Sharpener Pro and emailed Nik to see what an upgrade for the whole suite would cost - they shot me a great price and I bought the whole enchilada. It's powerful stuff and I'm spending less and less time fooling with PS.
This Velvia conversion is Thamserku Over Portse, Nepal Khumbu, 2002
Wow, thank guys and gals for all of the feedback... so here's the deal - would anyone want to offer up an image for me to print? It wouldn't cost you a thing, and I'd probably run it on luster and matte papers. I think this will help me gauge the necessity of software that will help my workflow. Thing is, I don't have much a workflow, as I don't get out much anymore, but maybe this will be enough to inspire me to go take photos
Posted by Jack Garrett on March 9, 2011 at 6:27 PM
Holy magic Batman!!!! Scott, that Denali image is perhaps the best I've ever seen...color or B/W. Just amazing...I'd love to see that in print.
"Scott, that Denali image is perhaps the best I've ever seen...color or B/W."
Hear, hear!!!
Posted by Kalin Wilson on March 10, 2011 at 1:07 AM
Sick image, Scott! I want to see that on Epson Exhibition Fiber! Great conversion!
Ditto on the Nik comments from what I've seen so far.
Posted by Kurt Bowman on March 10, 2011 at 9:41 AM
I totally think the NIK sw is worth every penny because of the amount of time I have saved sitting at my machine over the last year I have been using them and giving me more time out in the field. However, I got a much better deal. I got the entire package (prior to it including the HDR SW) for about $200. I just checked B&H and they still have the entire LR or Aperture plug-in for $219.00. It includes the old version of Silver Efex...but NIK was offering free upgrades for anyone that recently purchased the older version. If you call them, they might still be doing that. B&H also has Silver Efex 2 (if that is all you want, but I love all there plug-ins) for $129.00. Hope this helps!
Discussion
23 repliesThanks everyone.... just a little out of the loop lately...
although they make much shorter/faster work of the task.
Downloading a trial copy will let you know if it's worth the cost. I'm too cheap to buy Nik products, so I'm stuck doing b&w conversions the 'old fashioned' way.
All of this applies to SEP2. You can do the exact same thing in LR and PS but it will likely take you a lot less time using SEP2. Yes, I've made both color and b&w prints of images processed with Nik plug-ins on my Epson 2880. I've got zero complaints.
If you're hesitant to drop $200 on SEP2, download the 15 day free trial and give it a spin. If you're comfortable doing things the way you've been doing them, keep on truckin'.
This is simply awesome software and IMO it is worth the price! Like the other guys said, use the trial version, then make your decision.
FYI, if you download the trial version, when it's close to expiring (they only give you 15 days), they'll offer you a 15% off option. Or you can get the same discount as a NAPP member. Not sure if NANPA membership enjoys the same perk, but if you're a member, it's worth looking into.
However, if Nik contacted me tonight and offered up a sponsorship you can damn well bet I'd snatch it up. I'll only accept sponsorships from companies whose products I believe in and use regularly (F-Stop Gear), and I have no hesitation recommending the Nik products.
Todd, are you looking for a cell next to the infamous duralog photog?
For those that have the bucks, it may be worth the editing time saved.
YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary
Two well-used acronyms on PC hardware forums.
I bought Viveza 2, and I can't imagine doing what it does in Photoshop manually. You select a wheat stalk and then you can apply all of the Saturation and contrast and brightness and Warmth and color hue edits to all of the wheat. Yes, the new selection methods in CS5 do mAke that easier now I admit. But V2 is so good I'm also thinking of SEP2. CEP2 would be great but I already have Phototools. But, B&H has the whole Ultimate Collection for Photoshop for $399 delivered. Seems crazy NOT to get it!
Joe Rogers
I have quite a bit of "old-school" darkroom B&W printing experience. I know what makes a good B&W image and print. And while I was pleased with the results of my B&W conversions in Photoshop and Lightroom, it was time consuming. I can now do similar conversions with SEP in about 5 minutes. Also, there are adjustments in SEP that I'd not figured out how to do in PS or LR (I'm sure someone else has). Seriously, it is that good.
I'm not one who goes out and buys the latest "in" thing. I save my money for tools that are worth the price - whether its cameras, glass, or software. So I hesitated spending this much money on a "plug-in." But in this case, it was money well spent. SEP is well worth the cost, IMHO.
So I'm sticking with the old one since I think I had some reasonable success with it and I don't see the point to upgrade. But all of that has me craving color all of a sudden, bring on the California sunsets
I never considered looking into the NIK suite of software until I saw a wildlife example that Andy Biggs posted on his blog. I had a bias against plug-ins, and preferred to work from scratch with the basic PS and LR tools. My aging brain cells can't deal with much more new software.
Is Silver Efex Pro 2 worth $199? Not for me, because I don't do enough B&W to justify that stand alone price. Buying NIK software ala carte is VERY expensive.
Is the NIK Ultimate Collection for Photoshop/LR/Aperture worth $400. Definitely, yes, for me.
NIK's approach with their local adjustment control points makes post processing enjoyable rather than a PITA to be endured. The NIK interface is intuitive. I'm sure that not many of you would be willing to say that for the equivalent Photoshop alternative.
Note: the Ultimate Collection for just LR/Aperture is $220 at B&H. This provides ALL of the functionality, except you can't save the NIK adjustments as PS layers or SmartObjects.
Adding another piece of expensive software to your toolkit should be done with a lot of consideration and thought. Will you use it enough to justify the cost, and time to learn? In the end, will it make a difference in your final images? Only you can make that call.
I would not purchase any of NIK's products without first making full use of their excellent online resources. There are numerous free webinars throughout the week. Some of these are also available as free online videos. I find these provide the best introduction and use of your time, BEFORE downloading the trial software.
On a related note, I've toyed with the idea of buying the HDR Pro from NIK but every time I get ready to push the button I run across some HDR images that look like cartoons. Maybe someday....
One small correction: another advantage of using the Nik plug-ins within Photoshop instead of Lightroom is that you can use a brush to selectively apply edits. You can not do this within Lightroom. It isn't something I use often but when I need to do it, I'm glad I've got the capability.
And I've never really liked the challenge of creating a huge stack of layers in PS to make an image presentable. I already had Viveza 1 and Sharpener Pro and emailed Nik to see what an upgrade for the whole suite would cost - they shot me a great price and I bought the whole enchilada. It's powerful stuff and I'm spending less and less time fooling with PS.
This Velvia conversion is Thamserku Over Portse, Nepal Khumbu, 2002
Ditto on the Nik comments from what I've seen so far.