Posted by Greg Lessard on April 29, 2011 at 10:48 PM
I have clients who have hired me to shoot a calendar of their small farm. They have just signed a business deal with a major supermarket co. that wants photos of the clients at their farm for promotional materials. I would be charging my clients although the supermarket would potenitally be running thousands of ads. Unfortunately the clients don't know the exact use. I am inclined to charge them like a portrait photographer despite the intended use. I am just wondering how you would handle this situation and what you would charge.
Thanks for your help!
I'd write a contract including the shooting fee schedule, but limiting the client's license for use. Let the supermarket chain negotiate directly with you for a license to cover their additional uses (and your fees to them of course). In our business, the calendar shoot and the supermarket promotions are separate business transactions, and you retain the rights to the photos in both.
Posted by Jim Bullard on April 30, 2011 at 4:06 PM
Speaking of portrait photography, I'm thinking of doing some portrait work in order to get into the black (tough with just landscapes). It's been many, many years (as in decades) since I last did portraits. What are people charging these days?
Jim, like so many things the portrait industry is in the toilet. Basically it's being over ran by soccoer moms with their Rebel Ds & kit lenses, the unemployed that happened to have a "really nice camera that takes good picture" and department store studios selling low quality prints by the sheet.
Bob's got it right in general, but we're seeing a resurgence. Our number of sales are down, but our income is as high or higher because individual sales are a whole lot larger. Interviewing our clients, most admit they "bit" the sales pitches for digital cameras and were convinced they could do it themselves. Belatedly, after missed opportunities at lifetime events (weddings, e.g.) and poor results due to everything from lighting problems to bad file processing to cheap printing jobs (both at home and labs), they realized that there was a whole lot more to it than the camera. So they're coming back to us. Experience, pro lighting equipment, great file processing and the best-of-the-best photo labs make great photos- not cameras.
We're benefiting from a 20+ year history of good service as the foundation for repeat customers. I think I can guess that in this environment it will be lots harder for someone just starting out. I base that on the difficulty we have in attracting new clients. They're out there, but we spend a lot on advertising and promotions for slight returns in terms of new clients. There is no shortage of $300 wedding photographers and $20 portrait photographers in circulation, and somehow you have to float above them. Quality and word-of-mouth from satisfied customers are non-negotiable elements for doing that.
As for fees, they run the gamut depending on region, experience, competition and reputation. Based on last year's accounting and analysis we averaged a little over $600 per portrait client, even with the $20 hipshooters on every corner. We averaged between $2500 and $3000 per wedding, but only did about a dozen. The rest were snapped up by the $300 bargain shooters.
Good for us and bad for them, we had a surprising number of their clients (now angrily former clients) come to us with discs from their weddings and tearful requests to see if we could recover anything worthwhile from the other photographers' messes. We did, and we made money, and we garnered more loyal clients and good word-of-mouth in the process. Frankly we average more income per month now than we made in our whole first year of business, so it's a building process too.
Yeah, it's a jungle out there, but there are trails through the undergrowth.
BTW- Check out PPA and WPPI. Both are professional orgs dedicated to portrait and wedding photographers, and PPA in particular has been a help to us in marketing and education.
Discussion
5 repliesThanks for your help!
Good luck.
We're benefiting from a 20+ year history of good service as the foundation for repeat customers. I think I can guess that in this environment it will be lots harder for someone just starting out. I base that on the difficulty we have in attracting new clients. They're out there, but we spend a lot on advertising and promotions for slight returns in terms of new clients. There is no shortage of $300 wedding photographers and $20 portrait photographers in circulation, and somehow you have to float above them. Quality and word-of-mouth from satisfied customers are non-negotiable elements for doing that.
As for fees, they run the gamut depending on region, experience, competition and reputation. Based on last year's accounting and analysis we averaged a little over $600 per portrait client, even with the $20 hipshooters on every corner. We averaged between $2500 and $3000 per wedding, but only did about a dozen. The rest were snapped up by the $300 bargain shooters.
Good for us and bad for them, we had a surprising number of their clients (now angrily former clients) come to us with discs from their weddings and tearful requests to see if we could recover anything worthwhile from the other photographers' messes. We did, and we made money, and we garnered more loyal clients and good word-of-mouth in the process. Frankly we average more income per month now than we made in our whole first year of business, so it's a building process too.
Yeah, it's a jungle out there, but there are trails through the undergrowth.
BTW- Check out PPA and WPPI. Both are professional orgs dedicated to portrait and wedding photographers, and PPA in particular has been a help to us in marketing and education.