You have two options: Over a 3-year period, you will either A) Go shooting completely by yourself, with absolutely no human interaction, while in the field and on the way to the field or B) Go shooting with a group of photographers, who you know, so that nobody is a complete stranger. During this time, you are never alone, but always shooting scenes among members of your group.
The question is: What is more appealing to you at this point in your campaign as a nature photographer? Why would you choose your option? Do you think that your photography would suffer, or improve? Would you miss the camaraderie of shooting with folks you know if you chose option A?
For me, I would choose option B, because I feel that I have done enough of option A for so long now that I enjoy the company of having like-minded people on photo trips. Furthermore, I feel safer among a group of people more so than when I was younger. Obviously it would be nice to have a moment to myself, but for 3 years I could manage to have this situation, presumably.
I would have to say that I feel that my photography would improve much faster than if I was solo. The reason being is based on the idea that you can learn by observing and doing - in this case, I could learn what NOT to do, and what to do. While there is no mention of the individual creative abilities of the aforementioned 'company', it would be up to me to learn from those who are more advanced, and on the contrary, be able to teach those who are more novice. That right there is what would seal the deal on option B for me.
I'm definitely a lone wolf. I certainly enjoy the company of friends and fellow photographers on occasion but, good or bad, I'm a loner. I always have been and I suspect I always will be. I like the freedom, the time to think and reflect without any outside distractions.
I do best when I'm alone. I can be more flexible and change plans at a moment's notice. That said, I also enjoy shooting with other photographers when there are specific subjects we all want to shoot.
Posted by Sarah Marino on May 16, 2011 at 10:33 PM
Thanks for suggesting these discussion topics, Chris.
In a perfect world, I would much prefer option A for a few reasons. I do my best work when I am by myself and completely focused. When I am in a group, I tend to let my polite and social side dominate (for example, not wanting to interrupt a friend or acquaintance who is making conversation rather than focusing on photography – I can think of three separate instances where this has happened to me in the last two months).
I also find that being with a group brings out the herd mentality in me, rather than fostering creativity and helping me find my own perspective. While I have taken two photo tours and really enjoyed seeing how others captured the same experiences, I found that I had to work really hard to not just follow the group. If I am going to photograph with other people, I enjoy the experience much more if we all focus on doing our own things during the photography parts of the trip. The only thing that keeps me from consistently photographing on my own is the safety issue.
Interesting subject Chris, so thanks for posting it. I would have to go somewhere between the two. Yes I know that wasn't an option, but hey I have never really followed the rules. =) My preference is to have one person I know well to shoot with. There are no issues of worrying about compositions or getting in each others way with two people, and you can always branch off to do your own thing. It also has all the benefits in my opinion of having someone there for safety reasons, to shoot the breeze with when not shooting, and the learning experience. In my opinion you learn a lot from each other, how you saw the scene and what you each focused on. I have had some really great experiences in this type of two person environment.
As Koveh alludes to, some of my most productive shooting has been with a friend and backpacking partner. I think we tend to push each other a bit, even to the point of hiking the John Muir Trail together, both with pretty full photo gear (4x5 for him, 645 for me, 65-75 pound packs). It's also surprising how different our photos turn out, even traveling together. As Sarah points out, I climb higher and go deeper in backpacks with a partner.
If I were forced into the only two options of solo/group, I'd have to go with solo. Chris, I agree with you that I might (probably) learn more with a group, but I'd go crazy in the meantime. I need that time on my own, or it defeats some of the purpose of going out. As Don points out, some of that is the desire for flexibility, but a lot of it is just my own status as an introvert. Thankfully no one's forcing me into the choice, but if I were forced to decide between solo backpacking without a camera and photographing as part of a group, I'd probably ditch the camera three times out of four. Thankfully, though, I get to shoot on my own and share the results with people once I get back to civilization.
Interesting question, though. Maybe that's why I don't take many workshops...
Great subject Chris. For the past 15 or 20 years I've been a loner, taking all my photo trips alone with no intention of interacting with any other photographers and almost without exception that's been fine with me. My family even stopped going along because I'm not a lot of fun to be around when the cameras are out of the bag. With the exception of an abbreviated trip to the sunflower fields last summer with Rich V, the Moab Spring Fling is the first time I've been around photographers intentionally in a long time and it was a revelation.
By that I mean the dynamic was really conducive to my personality and shooting style. Conversation and companionship before and after shooting was very enjoyable but when the light started working we all fanned out to look for our own comps and as far as I know, nobody felt oppressed by the presence of anyone else. In short, it was an ideal situation and one I'll be taking advantage of more often in the future. I'll still take plenty of solo trips but when there's a RMNP gathering, I'm in!
I guess that makes me a B+ or A-
Posted by Tom Stermitz on May 17, 2011 at 12:39 AM
Fortunately, my girlfriend is a patient and meditative personality!
I'd definitely go with Option A since I'm a Type B personality. I like going out and shooting with other people, but I think they'd drive me crazy (and vice-versa) if I was around them constantly. I need the time alone to recharge my batteries. I also think I learn much more from others through forums like this than through photographing with them. When alone, I can really focus in on all the nuances of the landscape that I would be more prone to ignore in a group.
And when I have shot with a group of people, I've found that they often want to leave before I do or go to different places than I do. Not to mention that I like to stay up until 3am to shoot at night and then sleep in half the day, completely missing sunrise. I usually have my own agenda, since there's usually a specific book or project I'm working on. So the odds are very high that they would kill me or I would kill all of them before the end of three years. Of course, this could always change depending on the group of people. If that group happened to be the Swedish Bikini Team, I might be persuaded to change my mind.
Well, if my only choice is one extreme or the other, I'll take option A. I enjoy the company of other photographers and take advantage of any opportunity to join a group shoot. However, I find the flexiblity to change plans at a moment's notice, move on to another location, or stay all day to work a subject, is something that significantly improves my photography.
I'll let you know on the 25th. I'm leaving in the morning for 8 days in Washington and Oregon with 4 photographer friends. That is a long time to be together but I hope for the best. I used to shoot alone exclusively but in the past couple years, I've had another person or 2 with me. It makes my wife feel better since I will be a YOUNG 65 in September! I still like to get off by myself from time to time..that is when I feel closest to the landscape.
I like a healthy mixture of both.
I've always been very independent and somewhat of a loner. I can do fine with or without other human contact for extended periods. I really enjoy my solo trips as recharge sessions. Like others have said, I like the freedom to change plans or make plans without having to worry about how it impacts anyone else (outside my family).
However, I have had some great trips with fellow friends from NPN and my photography has benefited from those associations. I enjoy being with like-minded people and I realize that in some situations it's safer and wiser to have some company in the locations I like to go. Even though I've gone on some trips with several other photogs, we usually split into twos and threes. I find this a good number as you can actually make decisions rather than trying to work around four or five personal agendas.
I see this trend continuing. As I plan trips, I'll usually extend an invitation to a few folks but if no one is available, I'm comfortable to head out on my own. My opportunities to go out and shoot are too precious to do otherwise.
Option A. Solo. Definitely. I thoroughly enjoy the company of fellow photogs. A I've had several great trips with some of the folks here. But being alone has always been an integral part of my creative process. My best work is done when I'm alone and I completely enjoy solitude in the wilderness.
Posted by Howard Cihak on May 17, 2011 at 11:24 AM
Chris, thanks for posting this topic. It's a good one.
Myself, like Koveh, I would prefer the company of just one other photo friend on shooting trips. I've done enough of the "shooting parties" to know that it's too many people at one time on the same piece of ground. We get in each others' way, and I start to wonder after awhile whether the scene I'm shooting is a reflection of my own creativity or just what everyone is else is shooting. But if I had to shoot alone or in a large group, then I'm a loner, too.
A heavy dose of A, with light mix of B. The two are entirely different experiences in my mind, and I approach them with different expectations. Photography for me is about introspective exploration as much as it is about making strong images; it's a restorative process as much as a creative one, each process requiring solitude and focus that I don't get when I'm out with others. But I enjoy the company of fellow naturalists and photographers, so during those cherished opportunities image-making takes a back seat, and the rewards of companionship take precedent over the rewards of photography.
I think Rick D said it best. When I am really focused on making great images its solo for me. The group thing is more about interacting with the group and really focused photography takes a back seat.
Another lone wolf here. I enjoy others company when I have it but think that shooting solo is best for me at this time. As others have noted, in a group you might see what others are doing and make decisions based off of that. I think that shooting alone is key to discovering yourself in how you seek photos, your compositions, etc.
I'm totally an option B person, but I have actually never really tried option A. Since JR and I are always shooting together we are never really alone. That being said, I think it is great to have someone to help find the trail, pass the down time with, and carry some of the emotional load (paying attention to the surroundings, etc). When it comes to actual shooting, we are on our own. Very rarely are we shooting the same scene. A couple years ago we had to invest in walkie-talkies because we kept losing each other in the wilderness (he follows the light and I follow the flower arrangments)!
I have found that when I am in a group of people I don't know, I limit myself creatively because I'm afraid they'll think that I'm missing the best shot by shooting the random flower or root instead of the amazing sunset. In those situations, like Sarah, I have to choose between the social girl and the artist. It is an internal struggle between what I want to shoot and what I want others to think of me as a photographer...ironic, right?
This summer I have a few things going on where others are joining JR and I out and about. I am looking forward to these experiences because our basic premise is that everyone is there to do their own thing, but we can at least sleep in the same-ish location. It adds safety in numbers without compromising the photographic creativity (I hope!).
Great topic!
I'm with Koveh and Mark for option C, having that one good friend to shoot with. You tend to push each other to think more creatively and do some things you wouldn't otherwise do by yourself. I appreciate this a lot more now that my shooting buddy moved away, I haven't found the right person to replace him that's willing to go on spontaneous road trips
If I had to pick one though it would be the loner, I often need the escape to be alone with my thoughts and re-center. I'm realizing you never really connect with people in a group (at least I don't) it's more of a casual gathering where the only good that comes of it is socializing with like minded people and rarely good images. So yes, they both have their place.
Honestly, I've only ever really experienced the loner option. I have a very hard time even finding people to go hiking with me, people whose styles and schedules work with mine. Throw photography into the picture, and it's just way easier to head out solo. I've done good work while backpacking with my wife and on river trips, but basically every other keeper I've ever shot has been alone. I do think it would be a great time, though, to go out with one or two like-minded folks. I love seeing the dramatically different shots that people can get out of the same location. I'm sure I would learn quite a bit. Plus, maybe it's because I'm a married 30-something instead of a 20-something bachelor now, but I get lonelier out there than I used too.
Great topic!
By default, I'm in the same situation with Jackson...my work schedule and outdoor style (I tend to move along trails rather quickly) make it hard to find people to hike with...never mind shooting with. Most people I know who do the outdoors thing work 8-5. Monday to Friday, which leaves weekend to go out, and I tend to stay AWAY from trails on weekends (too many people).
That being said, I find that when I'm shooting with a couple of like-minded people (and better skilled photographers), I tend to produce better photos. It's not a matter of copying what they do, but more of just seeing things through someone elses eyes. I tend to have a hard time finding the "unusual" or "different" perspective, but once I see an example of something different, I can get out of the norm, and my results (IMHO) are better.
I'm sorry I am so late to this topic, Chris. It is one I have been meaning to explore on this and other forums. There are so many artists on NPN that seem to be that lone wolf type. Something about the communing with nature has to enter into that formula I suspect. Most of us are around people all day every day, so when we want to pursue that passion we have, I think we tend to wish to do so alone. I know for me, my best results come when I am alone. And I think that is due to my lack of ability to focus when others are involved. I do love the company of other photographers, and this is another of those elements I think we share, because of the great conversations about photography and our approaches and sharing of knowledge that comes with time spent with other photographers. It has always been an enriching experience when I have had those opportunities. But, as I stated, I produce what I feel is my best work when alone. Trying to balance being alone and spending the time with other artists is the challenge for me.
Discussion
22 repliesYou have two options: Over a 3-year period, you will either A) Go shooting completely by yourself, with absolutely no human interaction, while in the field and on the way to the field or B) Go shooting with a group of photographers, who you know, so that nobody is a complete stranger. During this time, you are never alone, but always shooting scenes among members of your group.
The question is: What is more appealing to you at this point in your campaign as a nature photographer? Why would you choose your option? Do you think that your photography would suffer, or improve? Would you miss the camaraderie of shooting with folks you know if you chose option A?
For me, I would choose option B, because I feel that I have done enough of option A for so long now that I enjoy the company of having like-minded people on photo trips. Furthermore, I feel safer among a group of people more so than when I was younger. Obviously it would be nice to have a moment to myself, but for 3 years I could manage to have this situation, presumably.
I would have to say that I feel that my photography would improve much faster than if I was solo. The reason being is based on the idea that you can learn by observing and doing - in this case, I could learn what NOT to do, and what to do. While there is no mention of the individual creative abilities of the aforementioned 'company', it would be up to me to learn from those who are more advanced, and on the contrary, be able to teach those who are more novice. That right there is what would seal the deal on option B for me.
In a perfect world, I would much prefer option A for a few reasons. I do my best work when I am by myself and completely focused. When I am in a group, I tend to let my polite and social side dominate (for example, not wanting to interrupt a friend or acquaintance who is making conversation rather than focusing on photography – I can think of three separate instances where this has happened to me in the last two months).
I also find that being with a group brings out the herd mentality in me, rather than fostering creativity and helping me find my own perspective. While I have taken two photo tours and really enjoyed seeing how others captured the same experiences, I found that I had to work really hard to not just follow the group. If I am going to photograph with other people, I enjoy the experience much more if we all focus on doing our own things during the photography parts of the trip. The only thing that keeps me from consistently photographing on my own is the safety issue.
If I were forced into the only two options of solo/group, I'd have to go with solo. Chris, I agree with you that I might (probably) learn more with a group, but I'd go crazy in the meantime. I need that time on my own, or it defeats some of the purpose of going out. As Don points out, some of that is the desire for flexibility, but a lot of it is just my own status as an introvert. Thankfully no one's forcing me into the choice, but if I were forced to decide between solo backpacking without a camera and photographing as part of a group, I'd probably ditch the camera three times out of four. Thankfully, though, I get to shoot on my own and share the results with people once I get back to civilization.
Interesting question, though. Maybe that's why I don't take many workshops...
By that I mean the dynamic was really conducive to my personality and shooting style. Conversation and companionship before and after shooting was very enjoyable but when the light started working we all fanned out to look for our own comps and as far as I know, nobody felt oppressed by the presence of anyone else. In short, it was an ideal situation and one I'll be taking advantage of more often in the future. I'll still take plenty of solo trips but when there's a RMNP gathering, I'm in!
I guess that makes me a B+ or A-
She's also a better photographer than I am, alas!
And when I have shot with a group of people, I've found that they often want to leave before I do or go to different places than I do. Not to mention that I like to stay up until 3am to shoot at night and then sleep in half the day, completely missing sunrise. I usually have my own agenda, since there's usually a specific book or project I'm working on. So the odds are very high that they would kill me or I would kill all of them before the end of three years.
I've always been very independent and somewhat of a loner. I can do fine with or without other human contact for extended periods. I really enjoy my solo trips as recharge sessions. Like others have said, I like the freedom to change plans or make plans without having to worry about how it impacts anyone else (outside my family).
However, I have had some great trips with fellow friends from NPN and my photography has benefited from those associations. I enjoy being with like-minded people and I realize that in some situations it's safer and wiser to have some company in the locations I like to go. Even though I've gone on some trips with several other photogs, we usually split into twos and threes. I find this a good number as you can actually make decisions rather than trying to work around four or five personal agendas.
I see this trend continuing. As I plan trips, I'll usually extend an invitation to a few folks but if no one is available, I'm comfortable to head out on my own. My opportunities to go out and shoot are too precious to do otherwise.
Myself, like Koveh, I would prefer the company of just one other photo friend on shooting trips. I've done enough of the "shooting parties" to know that it's too many people at one time on the same piece of ground. We get in each others' way, and I start to wonder after awhile whether the scene I'm shooting is a reflection of my own creativity or just what everyone is else is shooting. But if I had to shoot alone or in a large group, then I'm a loner, too.
I have found that when I am in a group of people I don't know, I limit myself creatively because I'm afraid they'll think that I'm missing the best shot by shooting the random flower or root instead of the amazing sunset. In those situations, like Sarah, I have to choose between the social girl and the artist. It is an internal struggle between what I want to shoot and what I want others to think of me as a photographer...ironic, right?
This summer I have a few things going on where others are joining JR and I out and about. I am looking forward to these experiences because our basic premise is that everyone is there to do their own thing, but we can at least sleep in the same-ish location. It adds safety in numbers without compromising the photographic creativity (I hope!).
Great topic!
If I had to pick one though it would be the loner, I often need the escape to be alone with my thoughts and re-center. I'm realizing you never really connect with people in a group (at least I don't) it's more of a casual gathering where the only good that comes of it is socializing with like minded people and rarely good images. So yes, they both have their place.
By default, I'm in the same situation with Jackson...my work schedule and outdoor style (I tend to move along trails rather quickly) make it hard to find people to hike with...never mind shooting with. Most people I know who do the outdoors thing work 8-5. Monday to Friday, which leaves weekend to go out, and I tend to stay AWAY from trails on weekends (too many people).
That being said, I find that when I'm shooting with a couple of like-minded people (and better skilled photographers), I tend to produce better photos. It's not a matter of copying what they do, but more of just seeing things through someone elses eyes. I tend to have a hard time finding the "unusual" or "different" perspective, but once I see an example of something different, I can get out of the norm, and my results (IMHO) are better.