I live in and grew up in the town I'm in. It was 15 or so thousand people when I was a kid. It's now around 100,000. It's still relatively quiet, and pretty safe. I've always kept my door locked, but have never been paranoid about it. So, If I forgot to lock all the doors at night before going to bed, I wasn't loosing any sleep. Well, that little detail came home this week, big time!
I awoke at 4:30 tuesday morning to a man's voice! I thought it was coming from outside, as that happens sometimes with people walking in the a.m.! I heard again, and a third time. I sat up and asked my wife what the heck was going on outside??? We both got up, and when opened the bedroom door, there was a man at the end of our hallway! He immediately asked if we could help him. He had no visible injuries and no weapons that I could see. But he was kind of freaked out, and scared. I approached him, and he screamed and ran across my living room away from me, like I was trying to harm him. He said he had been attacked by a gang, and they were after him with a gun!!!!
Thanks for bringing it to my house buddy!
Anyway, it didn't take but a minute to conclude he was not an immediate threat to us, but probably on drugs, or mentally deficient in some way. I called the police, and they had someone there right away. He cooperated with them, and it went away without a physical exchange, and no big deal. But, it could have been one, so don't take any chances out there.
The funny thing is, that I was packed to stay out of town for work that night! My boss changed it last minute, and I was home. The other thing is that had he entered either of my neighbor's home, they'd of shot him dead! I think they'd of been within thier right to do so, but it would have been an unnecessary tragedy if that had happened. I was able to remain calm, and asses the situation, and not over react myself, to keep things from becoming very bad.
I hope he ends up okay, and gets whatever help he might need.
An exciting start to the week, eh?
Chris
Posted by Lon Overacker on June 24, 2011 at 12:00 AM
Holy cr*p Chris. Thank goodness you and your wife were unharmed in the deal That would have scared the you know what out of me. You can be sure I won't tell my wife about it as I like to leave some windows open at night especially when it's hot like it has been the last couple of days. Jeez, glad you're ok.
Yikes, sure glad no one was hurt.
It's been hotter than hell here the last week, and we often leave windows open at night, cuz it barely cools off at all - even with them open. This is very naive, since our large windows are within 2 feet off the ground, and - really - anyone could get in if they wanted. No more of this.
There are people on drugs everywhere, sadly, and anything can happen.
Thanks for the reminder!
Sandy
Chris you really should think about a dog. This worked out pretty well for your family but a sensitive pair of ears might have kept this stranger outside and away from your family.
Charlie
Sandy,
It's a tough call. I love to have my windows open too. I lived for 46 years in this town without any worry about something like this heppening. But it can only take once. I think the cieling fan will have to do.
Charlie,
Good idea, and I love dogs. We had a couple of Aussie/cattle dog brothers for about 12 years. It was extremely hard on us to loose them. Eventually we had to make the decision to put the surviving brother down. I want toe companionship, but not sure I'm ready to put myself in that emotional situation again yet. Protection is also a good reason though. Thanks!
Lon,
I think if someone saw a homeowner the size of you, they'd want to run away pretty fast, man! I can't imagine you being scared.
Whew, Chris! Glad everything worked out okay! And yes, hopefully the intruder will get the help he needs.
Posted by Lindy Martin on June 24, 2011 at 7:02 AM
Chris, glad you and your family are okay and thanks for posting this. Geese are great watchdogs too and they tend not to need as many vet visits either. :
Posted by Howard Cheek on June 24, 2011 at 7:07 AM
Sounds like the guy was no real threat Chris, but very well could've been. He might not have been shot in my home either, but it would've been close. I highly recommend you keep those doors and windows shut & locked at night in the future.
Especially so if our economy dips even further..The desperation factor will kick in, and more of those same nuts will be out there.
Posted by Bill Chambers on June 24, 2011 at 10:00 AM
Man, you are one lucky son of a gun! That could have turned out so badly for you and your wife, but I'm so very glad it all worked out well for everyone concerned. The man in your house is VERY lucky you didn't overreact.
You were spared. I would get two dogs from a rescue, not only for protection, but companionship. You would be helping them and yourself. Your wife would have someone there with her at all times. Wow, give thanks.
A few years back when I lived in the City of Oceanside, CA I had a very large guy break two windows in the back door of my house in at 2:00 in the morning. He was trying very hard to get into my house and was climbing in through the broken windows. Unlike your intruder, this guy was not harmless. Unfortunately for him I showed up with a loaded .45 before he could get all the way in. He followed my instructions after that and pretty much stopped all movement until the police showed up. The incident was a big reason for my moving out to the country. Makes you think what you would do if things went a little further. Fortunately I had just put down some new linoleum and it would've been an easy clean up.
Glad that you were able to make a quick judgement on this guy and that everything turned out well.
Posted by Jim Erhardt on June 24, 2011 at 11:45 AM
Chris, glad it turned out OK. As others have said, it could have easily (and VERY quickly) turned ugly if the intruder decided to become hostile. Unless you live in a mansion, face-to-face with an intruder in your hallway is FAR more dangerous than you realize. At that short of a distance, with you awoken in the middle of the night and not "fully booted up" he could have stuck a knife in your chest before you could have reacted. You were indeed very lucky.
Good advice on the dogs and keeping everything locked. And as a BTW, the murder of 4 people in the pharmacy in NY the other day happened a few miles from where we used to live and at a store we used ourselves. Yes, the world is at times an extremely violent/dangerous place, a fact many of us become complacent about.
Remain vigilant, take precautions and be prepared.
Posted by Charlie Baugh on June 24, 2011 at 12:25 PM
Chris, there is one thing about your story that has me wondering. You say you had been scheduled to be out of town that night. Is this person who broke in, someone who might have known that you were going to be away?
I'm reminded of Warren Zevon's song; "Rottwieller Blues". All of my dogs, past and present are only a threat to an intruder if he/she trips over them, and then it's play time. Golden retrievers are my breed of choice, they've all been named after my preferred method of home defense; Winchester, Remington, and now Colt. Glad you and your wife are safe.
But it does raise a somewhat "ethical" question. As stewards of nature, some of us try to save energy(turn off the A/C, leave the windows open) but at the same time we are compromising our own personal safety. It doesn't help when ComEd is raising their rates, either.
Charlie,
No, I didn't know the man, and there was no way he could have known I wasn't suppose to be there. Just a freak, random occurance as far as I can tell.
Jim,
Thanks, your are right. There was only 15 feet between us when I first set eyes on him! I've had some training, and figure I'm fairly prepared, but that's pretty close. Anything I could haved done at that point would have had to be with lethal intent, I think, if it came to a struggle. But my wife sure is proud of me to have kept a level head and made an assesmant of the situation before going balistic!!!!!! I know I was lucky to have been given that time to evaluate the guy.
Elizabeth,
Thanks, good idea about the rescue dogs. I've had that on my mind for a while now. Starting to miss the presence of a good doggy friend around the house more and more lately.
About getting a gun. I own a few already. I don't keep them where they would be to my immediate access in a situation. I have grandchildren in and around the house a lot these days. I don't feel comfortable with it say, in my nightstand, or dresser drawer. I'm going to rethink that though. There must be a secure way of having it at "arms length" where it really needs to be in order to be effective. I like the 12 guage idea though. Intimidation factor big time with one of those!!!!!!
Children around guns would be a huge problem. A locked up gun around an intruder is also a huge problem. I have a sharp hunting knife close to my bed. But then there is the problem of bringing a knife to a gunfight. This is only good for scaring off someone who only wanted to rob you and has no intent in getting into a fight.
Another thought for you folks with open windows...install alarms and window locks that work on semi-closed windows (open enough to allow plenty of air (either at the top or the bottom)). Disallows opening further from the outside without setting off an alarm. There are brackets that will secure the slightly open window without alarms that would need to have the window broken from the outside which just might wake you up! And for a cheap alarm, you could get those little battery operated alarms made for use on hotel doors that have a string and pin thing. Just have to keep good batteries in them.
And if you are rich, there are tons of security solutions that will still let you keep your window wide open!!!
Chris, you are wise with your views on how a firearm might be used in such a situation, and the potential for disaster by having them unsecured in your home. On one hand, leaving them just "hidden" but unsecured is irresponsible, yet as Troup says, having it inaccessible at time of need does not do you any good. Here is the strategy we employ;
You need to secure your perimeter. We keep all doors and windows locked on the lower levels. We set our alarm at night, that covers all lower-level windows/doors and the stairwells with motion detectors. This makes breaking into our home without detection impossible. Setting the alarm at night may sound "paranoid" but it's no different than turning off the TV and lights before retiring for the evening. Our alarm system also communicates via wireless to a 24/7 monitoring service, which calls us if the alarm is tripped.
We own firearms but they are all secured. At night, one designated for home security (with a high-powered white light) is at-hand in a place where I can't forget to re-secure it before I leave the house.
We have a plan - if trouble is detected, I have several spots where I can "cover" the approach to the bedroom area. The weapon-mounted white light is the first line of defense to absolutely identify the target as friend or foe. Having the means (the light) and conditioning to first identify the "target" avoids the tragedy of shooting a loved one by mistake.
Training - both physical and psychological; proficiency with firearms and their use under high stress is something that takes training and practice. As much as I am an unrelenting supporter of our 2A rights, I also recognize that to use a firearm for potentially deadly purposes requires uncompromising committment to regular training. For someone to buy a gun for self defense with no training is a disaster waiting to happen.
Modern society has lead us to a mindset that we no longer have to think/worry/prepare for our personal defense when in fact, nothing could be further from the truth. Those who are best trained to take responsibility for their personal safety and best prepared to deal with it are in fact the least likely targets of criminal activity.
I like the 12 guage idea though. Intimidation factor big time with one of those!!!!!!
The "intimidation factor" is not worth considering and in fact can be counter-productive. Contrary to Hollywood stereotyping, you cannot just point a shotgun in the general direction of the bad guy and expect it to solve the problem. In fact, they need to be aimed just like any other firearm to be effective and at the close distances typical of an in-home encounter, that long barrel makes for a good lever.
You can not and should not count on the mere presence of the firearm to be a deterrence. The main problem with that mindset is that it (1) provides a sense of false security and (2) consumes time in a confrontation while you wait for the "intimidation factor" that may never materialize. Also, unless you are trained in weapons retention, you could easily find yourself on the wrong end of it.
Best advice for those who want to use a firearm (or a knife) for self defense is to get some training from recognized authorities. The more you learn on this subject, the more you will realize how much you don't know. If anyone is interested in this, feel free to email me and I will provide links/contact info for some reputable training sources.
Back on topic, securing your home with locked windows and doors, exterior lighting, etc. will go a very long way to preventing what Chris experienced. Alarm systems and services are very affordable and are certainly worth considering. Home protection, firearms and self defense are all very worthy subjects but outside the scope of NPN, so this thread will be closed soon.
If you are going to own a gun for home defense purposes I highly recommend spending time at a range where you can learn how to use it properly. After that, practice, practice, practice. Guns don't always hit everything that they are pointed at by themselves. Much like a camera (that's for Larry ), it takes a lot of practice to be able to pull off a good shot. I'll bet a lot of folks here could load a flash card faster then they could load their 9mm. You might find yourself surprised at how difficult it is to hit anything with a pistol at 20 yards. One recent phenomenon here is that at one local range you can see the gangstas practicing right alongside the SWAT teams. The local police have noticed a marked increase in the skill of the bad guys. How good are you?
The idea of a dog is 1) alarm to wake you up 2) scare away the intruder whose cover is now blown 3) if they don't leave, keep them distracted while you get the 12ga PUMP shotgun.
Regarding the 12ga pump, it has several advantages. 1) every bad guy in the world recognizes the sound of a pump shotgun chambering a round 2) said sound is very intimidating to anyone potentially on the receiving end of what follows 3) response to said sound distinguishes between the casual burglar and those with lethal intent.
The short tactical type shotguns are the ticket for home defense but with a stock, not those foolish pistol grips. They are very easy to get reasonably proficient with and a shotgun standing in the corner of a closet behind the clothing is just as unobtrusive as a handgun in a night stand drawer.
Everyone has to make their own decisions on this type of stuff. Unfortunately, society seems to be validating Darwinian theory rather than negating it.
As to any firearm, a clearly thoughtout decision by the potential new owner must be made, that you will use it lethally, if certain conditions are met. Hesitation can be fatal for you, even by the intruder useing your own weapon.
Discussion
26 repliesI awoke at 4:30 tuesday morning to a man's voice! I thought it was coming from outside, as that happens sometimes with people walking in the a.m.! I heard again, and a third time. I sat up and asked my wife what the heck was going on outside??? We both got up, and when opened the bedroom door, there was a man at the end of our hallway! He immediately asked if we could help him. He had no visible injuries and no weapons that I could see. But he was kind of freaked out, and scared. I approached him, and he screamed and ran across my living room away from me, like I was trying to harm him. He said he had been attacked by a gang, and they were after him with a gun!!!!
Thanks for bringing it to my house buddy!
Anyway, it didn't take but a minute to conclude he was not an immediate threat to us, but probably on drugs, or mentally deficient in some way. I called the police, and they had someone there right away. He cooperated with them, and it went away without a physical exchange, and no big deal. But, it could have been one, so don't take any chances out there.
The funny thing is, that I was packed to stay out of town for work that night! My boss changed it last minute, and I was home. The other thing is that had he entered either of my neighbor's home, they'd of shot him dead! I think they'd of been within thier right to do so, but it would have been an unnecessary tragedy if that had happened. I was able to remain calm, and asses the situation, and not over react myself, to keep things from becoming very bad.
I hope he ends up okay, and gets whatever help he might need.
An exciting start to the week, eh?
Chris
Lon
It's been hotter than hell here the last week, and we often leave windows open at night, cuz it barely cools off at all - even with them open. This is very naive, since our large windows are within 2 feet off the ground, and - really - anyone could get in if they wanted. No more of this.
There are people on drugs everywhere, sadly, and anything can happen.
Thanks for the reminder!
Sandy
Charlie
It's a tough call. I love to have my windows open too. I lived for 46 years in this town without any worry about something like this heppening. But it can only take once. I think the cieling fan will have to do.
Charlie,
Good idea, and I love dogs. We had a couple of Aussie/cattle dog brothers for about 12 years. It was extremely hard on us to loose them. Eventually we had to make the decision to put the surviving brother down. I want toe companionship, but not sure I'm ready to put myself in that emotional situation again yet. Protection is also a good reason though. Thanks!
Lon,
I think if someone saw a homeowner the size of you, they'd want to run away pretty fast, man! I can't imagine you being scared.
Chris
Especially so if our economy dips even further..The desperation factor will kick in, and more of those same nuts will be out there.
I commend you for keeping a cool head. This incident could have gone sideways easily. I am glad no one was hurt.
--P
Glad that you were able to make a quick judgement on this guy and that everything turned out well.
Good advice on the dogs and keeping everything locked. And as a BTW, the murder of 4 people in the pharmacy in NY the other day happened a few miles from where we used to live and at a store we used ourselves. Yes, the world is at times an extremely violent/dangerous place, a fact many of us become complacent about.
Remain vigilant, take precautions and be prepared.
But it does raise a somewhat "ethical" question. As stewards of nature, some of us try to save energy(turn off the A/C, leave the windows open) but at the same time we are compromising our own personal safety. It doesn't help when ComEd is raising their rates, either.
Charlie,
No, I didn't know the man, and there was no way he could have known I wasn't suppose to be there. Just a freak, random occurance as far as I can tell.
Jim,
Thanks, your are right. There was only 15 feet between us when I first set eyes on him! I've had some training, and figure I'm fairly prepared, but that's pretty close. Anything I could haved done at that point would have had to be with lethal intent, I think, if it came to a struggle. But my wife sure is proud of me to have kept a level head and made an assesmant of the situation before going balistic!!!!!! I know I was lucky to have been given that time to evaluate the guy.
Elizabeth,
Thanks, good idea about the rescue dogs. I've had that on my mind for a while now. Starting to miss the presence of a good doggy friend around the house more and more lately.
About getting a gun. I own a few already. I don't keep them where they would be to my immediate access in a situation. I have grandchildren in and around the house a lot these days. I don't feel comfortable with it say, in my nightstand, or dresser drawer. I'm going to rethink that though. There must be a secure way of having it at "arms length" where it really needs to be in order to be effective. I like the 12 guage idea though. Intimidation factor big time with one of those!!!!!!
Chris
Another thought for you folks with open windows...install alarms and window locks that work on semi-closed windows (open enough to allow plenty of air (either at the top or the bottom)). Disallows opening further from the outside without setting off an alarm. There are brackets that will secure the slightly open window without alarms that would need to have the window broken from the outside which just might wake you up! And for a cheap alarm, you could get those little battery operated alarms made for use on hotel doors that have a string and pin thing. Just have to keep good batteries in them.
And if you are rich, there are tons of security solutions that will still let you keep your window wide open!!!
Or get a dog!
You need to secure your perimeter. We keep all doors and windows locked on the lower levels. We set our alarm at night, that covers all lower-level windows/doors and the stairwells with motion detectors. This makes breaking into our home without detection impossible. Setting the alarm at night may sound "paranoid" but it's no different than turning off the TV and lights before retiring for the evening. Our alarm system also communicates via wireless to a 24/7 monitoring service, which calls us if the alarm is tripped.
We own firearms but they are all secured. At night, one designated for home security (with a high-powered white light) is at-hand in a place where I can't forget to re-secure it before I leave the house.
We have a plan - if trouble is detected, I have several spots where I can "cover" the approach to the bedroom area. The weapon-mounted white light is the first line of defense to absolutely identify the target as friend or foe. Having the means (the light) and conditioning to first identify the "target" avoids the tragedy of shooting a loved one by mistake.
Training - both physical and psychological; proficiency with firearms and their use under high stress is something that takes training and practice. As much as I am an unrelenting supporter of our 2A rights, I also recognize that to use a firearm for potentially deadly purposes requires uncompromising committment to regular training. For someone to buy a gun for self defense with no training is a disaster waiting to happen.
Modern society has lead us to a mindset that we no longer have to think/worry/prepare for our personal defense when in fact, nothing could be further from the truth. Those who are best trained to take responsibility for their personal safety and best prepared to deal with it are in fact the least likely targets of criminal activity.
You can not and should not count on the mere presence of the firearm to be a deterrence. The main problem with that mindset is that it (1) provides a sense of false security and (2) consumes time in a confrontation while you wait for the "intimidation factor" that may never materialize. Also, unless you are trained in weapons retention, you could easily find yourself on the wrong end of it.
Best advice for those who want to use a firearm (or a knife) for self defense is to get some training from recognized authorities. The more you learn on this subject, the more you will realize how much you don't know. If anyone is interested in this, feel free to email me and I will provide links/contact info for some reputable training sources.
Back on topic, securing your home with locked windows and doors, exterior lighting, etc. will go a very long way to preventing what Chris experienced. Alarm systems and services are very affordable and are certainly worth considering. Home protection, firearms and self defense are all very worthy subjects but outside the scope of NPN, so this thread will be closed soon.
Regarding the 12ga pump, it has several advantages. 1) every bad guy in the world recognizes the sound of a pump shotgun chambering a round 2) said sound is very intimidating to anyone potentially on the receiving end of what follows 3) response to said sound distinguishes between the casual burglar and those with lethal intent.
The short tactical type shotguns are the ticket for home defense but with a stock, not those foolish pistol grips. They are very easy to get reasonably proficient with and a shotgun standing in the corner of a closet behind the clothing is just as unobtrusive as a handgun in a night stand drawer.
Everyone has to make their own decisions on this type of stuff. Unfortunately, society seems to be validating Darwinian theory rather than negating it.