I wish to start a discussion on Comments & Critique to displayed photographs. Are we honest or are we shay to post also negative critique if required?
IMO negative critique can considerably help to improve the photo skill. What is your opinion?
I'm always honest - but the degree of honesty can differ
I try to always start and end a critique with a positive comment. In the middle, I'll offer suggestions for improvement and what does or does not work for me.
For the new or newer people, I don't mention ALL things not so good (if any) . For longer-term people, whom I hold to the higher standards they have often set for themselves, I will be "more" honest about things that could/should be improved.
As for me, I ALWAYS seek honest (and harsh, if needed) critiques. I'm pretty confident in what I post, and like to see other's comments - especially the less-than-stellar comments - always makes me learn and grow. Still, sometimes, I honestly post something I think does NOT work so well, to see what others think. I'm often surprised - and this, also, makes me re-think and grow.
Excellent topic, Miro -
Sandy
Posted by Ramamohan Pai on July 22, 2011 at 11:32 PM
Depends. I much prefer to be honest in private. I will be honest publicly if the person receiving the feedback has no history of contesting the feedback or if I know the poster well enough. You can disagree, but don't contest.
Posted by Robert Dayton on July 23, 2011 at 12:34 AM
For myself, I prefer harsh critiques. Hiking last summer in the El Dorado NF in Northern
California, I saw some of the best alpine meadow wildflowers that I've ever seen. It was one
of the most strenuous treks that I've ever done. Consequently, I was blinded to the facts
that my well composed images were lousy because of terrible lighting. I shouldn't have
taken the images in the first place and I was clearly wrong by posting them.
A few critics attempted to let me down softly. Finally, someone spared me nothing and
pointed out how lacking the images were because of the harsh lighting. Because the
flowers were so pretty and because I had labored so hard to get to them, I thought that
the images were OK. He set me straight. As a result, I won't let my emotions control
my picture taking and posting. I learned a valuable lesson from a harsh but well intentioned
critique. That's my opinion.
What I say, praise or critique, is as honest as I can make it. Where I see a problem in myself and in the "system" in general is with images that might lend themselves to a lot of critique and not much praise. I don't seem to be able to comment on those, and I often see that pretty much nobody else comments on them, either. With my own images, if no one comments I rightly or wrongly assume it's an image that people don't see any good in, so I take that as a learning situation also.
Miro, This article was written long ago by Jim Erhardt.
I know that when I comment, if I have a suggestion to make on how an image might be improved, I do my best to write both the suggestion and the rationale for the suggestion. And that doesn't always happen
When I have an image to post, I jump into that gallery and critique first five to ten images before posting and do my best to stop in on that galley later in the week. I often miss images that were posted by people I've gotten to know. That's not intentional, it's simply the throw of the dice.
I don't think we should look at a critique as a negative comment; rather it's what we can do to improve the current image or what we need to look at the next time we shoot a similar image.
I do know that the more we study images made by others and discover what's good about those images and what could be improved, the better our own photography and/or photoshop skills improve. In my opinion, writing down these thoughts helps the growth process.
Miro, glad you introduced the topic for discussion.
Being overly critical without offering helpful suggestions can have a negative impact on a person as well as their work. Human beings are complex but we share a common thread and that thread is our self esteem. No one likes to have their photographs torn to pieces, especially people who are new to the field. As photographers we all strive to create the best possible photographs that we can, Behind the technical side of photography there is an emotional investment which re-enforces the very essence of who we are. My personal belief is that people who offer criticism have a responsibility to nurture as well. To do otherwise is to disregard our humanness. Think twice before you judge.
I try to be constructive when I see potential for improvement by making specific suggestions along with some encouragement. Where I have difficulty commenting is with images that seem to lack potential. If I don't see potential I tend not to comment at all.
Being overly critical without offering helpful suggestions can have a negative impact on a person as well as their work. Human beings are complex but we share a common thread and that thread is our self esteem. No one likes to have their photographs torn to pieces, especially people who are new to the field. As photographers we all strive to create the best possible photographs that we can, Behind the technical side of photography there is an emotional investment which re-enforces the very essence of who we are. My personal belief is that people who offer criticism have a responsibility to nurture as well. To do otherwise is to disregard our humanness. Think twice before you judge.
Gary L. Wunderlin, PhD
Yes. I have tried to think how to express this before, but never successfully.
If you want a negative critique, you should probably say so. Nobody views everything that comes through here. We tend to click on something that gives us a tickle. It's like "Wow. Nice shot. I want a closer look." Do negative critiques help? Yes and no. Ten people see things 10 different ways. You need to know enough to begin with to critique the critiques. Persevere and have a little faith in your own vision.
Posted by Bruce Painter on July 24, 2011 at 12:03 AM
I personally want honest. If you dont like a photo of mine I don't mind you saying so. It is helpful if you can tell me why and if you can explain what I might do different. If given with a good motive then it is always welcome.
Bruce
Posted by Lon Overacker on July 24, 2011 at 12:21 AM
Miro,
I know what you're saying, but I would personally clarify your statement to say "constructive critique" rather than "negative." Negative, is well, just that, negative and to me that applies to comments that don't offer anything where the poster learns anything. But I'm guessing this is what you mean anyway.
There are so many variables at play here and 99% of them are simply human behavior related. Someone mentioned one of those variables is who the image poster is. Do they handle direct critiques well? Are they defensive or do they make it clear they welcome all critiques? Is the poster a pro or a newbie? Do you know them personally? And then there is the person commenting, giving the critique. Are you a straight shooter that doesn't hold back? (Stan comes to mind.... and I'm comfortable citing his name because I know he's comfortable in his comments.) Or, are you a bit more shy and reserved and not want to hurt someone's feelings? Or like someone mentioned, if they can't find anything positive to say about an image, they simply don't post a comment. I think that feeling is rather prevalent actually.
For me, it just depends. For those that I know personally or know they are comfortable with straight-shooting critiques, I usually don't have a problem telling them "it just isn't working for me," and why. But perhaps for a beginner I'll be less harsh and concentrate on a few items that could be improved on; whether it's composition, color, processing, light, whatever.
In the end, Robert P. is correct in saying that people all see things differently. What may bother 5 people, 50 other people won't notice or like that feature. So it all becomes very subjective anyway.
So, be honest in your critiques, but be fair and constructive.
I appreciate very interesting response to this topic. I used the word "negative" in conjuction with "critique". What I wanted to say is a constructive critique which is pointing to negative aspects. Of course negative crirtique may be positive for photographer future improvement (English is not my mother tongue; important is that we understand each other).
By the way I appreciate any kind of critique which helps to improve my photo work.
Posted by Steve Kennedy on July 25, 2011 at 10:20 AM
I appreciate an honest critique, even one that appears harsh. I want to learn and I look at the less-than-glowing statements as positive learning experiences. Of course my ego loves to see high praise but I really appreciate comments that help me learn.
As for my own comments on other people's photos, I try to be honest but there are many situations where I simply don't feel competent to state my opinion. That doesn't mean I'm holding back because I don't want to hurt someone's feelings. I just don't know how to put it into words, or more likely I don't know a technique to solve a problem I may see. I don't want to point out a problem without offering a suggestion.
"As for my own comments on other people's photos, I try to be honest but there are many situations where I simply don't feel competent to state my opinion. That doesn't mean I'm holding back because I don't want to hurt someone's feelings. I just don't know how to put it into words, or more likely I don't know a technique to solve a problem I may see. I don't want to point out a problem without offering a suggestion."
Steve, you may not have a suggestion as to how to correct a problem you see in an image, but this does not mean you shouldn't comment. Go ahead and comment and then add something like, "I don't know how to fix this, but hopefully, others will chime in with a suggestion." Adding such a caveat encourages others to add to the discussion.
--P
Posted by Steve Kennedy on July 25, 2011 at 12:11 PM
I think its important to remember that technical 'improvement' does not always lead to a successful image. While some photographers may take a pure documentary approach to the subject, reaching your viewer requires more than a cookbook approach to technique. Just yesterday I noticed a coworker with a screensaver on his monitor that was a photo taken from the summit of a Colorado peak--it was covered with distracting flare, over-saturated, and i felt like vomiting But evidently he liked it enough to make it his screensaver!
When I first joined this group, the comment that had the most impact on me was a comment that someone made on a photo of mine that I personally thought was pretty good. That person simply said "It doesn't work for me". Interpretation: "I don't like it". Now, as Lon points out, I occasionally make similar comments, although I go out of my way to explain why. The reason that comment had such an effect on me is not because I ended up crying in my beer for a week (well, ok, it was only three days... ) it's because it really sank in that I wasn't going to please everyone with every photo--so no sense in trying to accomplish that. It's more important to be true to yourself and your own standards. I think people would be more willing to offer 'negative' critique if thay can become convinced (as i was) that they're not delivering the Word of God, they're just offering an opinion, to be incorporated into the photographers growth as he or she sees fit.
Discussion
16 repliesIMO negative critique can considerably help to improve the photo skill. What is your opinion?
I try to always start and end a critique with a positive comment. In the middle, I'll offer suggestions for improvement and what does or does not work for me.
For the new or newer people, I don't mention ALL things not so good (if any) . For longer-term people, whom I hold to the higher standards they have often set for themselves, I will be "more" honest about things that could/should be improved.
As for me, I ALWAYS seek honest (and harsh, if needed) critiques. I'm pretty confident in what I post, and like to see other's comments - especially the less-than-stellar comments - always makes me learn and grow. Still, sometimes, I honestly post something I think does NOT work so well, to see what others think. I'm often surprised - and this, also, makes me re-think and grow.
Excellent topic, Miro -
Sandy
California, I saw some of the best alpine meadow wildflowers that I've ever seen. It was one
of the most strenuous treks that I've ever done. Consequently, I was blinded to the facts
that my well composed images were lousy because of terrible lighting. I shouldn't have
taken the images in the first place and I was clearly wrong by posting them.
A few critics attempted to let me down softly. Finally, someone spared me nothing and
pointed out how lacking the images were because of the harsh lighting. Because the
flowers were so pretty and because I had labored so hard to get to them, I thought that
the images were OK. He set me straight. As a result, I won't let my emotions control
my picture taking and posting. I learned a valuable lesson from a harsh but well intentioned
critique. That's my opinion.
I know that when I comment, if I have a suggestion to make on how an image might be improved, I do my best to write both the suggestion and the rationale for the suggestion. And that doesn't always happen
When I have an image to post, I jump into that gallery and critique first five to ten images before posting and do my best to stop in on that galley later in the week. I often miss images that were posted by people I've gotten to know. That's not intentional, it's simply the throw of the dice.
I don't think we should look at a critique as a negative comment; rather it's what we can do to improve the current image or what we need to look at the next time we shoot a similar image.
I do know that the more we study images made by others and discover what's good about those images and what could be improved, the better our own photography and/or photoshop skills improve. In my opinion, writing down these thoughts helps the growth process.
Miro, glad you introduced the topic for discussion.
Regards,
Carol
Gary L. Wunderlin, PhD
Yes. I have tried to think how to express this before, but never successfully.
Bruce
I know what you're saying, but I would personally clarify your statement to say "constructive critique" rather than "negative." Negative, is well, just that, negative and to me that applies to comments that don't offer anything where the poster learns anything. But I'm guessing this is what you mean anyway.
There are so many variables at play here and 99% of them are simply human behavior related. Someone mentioned one of those variables is who the image poster is. Do they handle direct critiques well? Are they defensive or do they make it clear they welcome all critiques? Is the poster a pro or a newbie? Do you know them personally? And then there is the person commenting, giving the critique. Are you a straight shooter that doesn't hold back? (Stan comes to mind.... and I'm comfortable citing his name because I know he's comfortable in his comments.)
For me, it just depends. For those that I know personally or know they are comfortable with straight-shooting critiques, I usually don't have a problem telling them "it just isn't working for me," and why. But perhaps for a beginner I'll be less harsh and concentrate on a few items that could be improved on; whether it's composition, color, processing, light, whatever.
In the end, Robert P. is correct in saying that people all see things differently. What may bother 5 people, 50 other people won't notice or like that feature. So it all becomes very subjective anyway.
So, be honest in your critiques, but be fair and constructive.
Good topic,
Lon
By the way I appreciate any kind of critique which helps to improve my photo work.
As for my own comments on other people's photos, I try to be honest but there are many situations where I simply don't feel competent to state my opinion. That doesn't mean I'm holding back because I don't want to hurt someone's feelings. I just don't know how to put it into words, or more likely I don't know a technique to solve a problem I may see. I don't want to point out a problem without offering a suggestion.
Steve, you may not have a suggestion as to how to correct a problem you see in an image, but this does not mean you shouldn't comment. Go ahead and comment and then add something like, "I don't know how to fix this, but hopefully, others will chime in with a suggestion." Adding such a caveat encourages others to add to the discussion.
--P
When I first joined this group, the comment that had the most impact on me was a comment that someone made on a photo of mine that I personally thought was pretty good. That person simply said "It doesn't work for me". Interpretation: "I don't like it". Now, as Lon points out, I occasionally make similar comments, although I go out of my way to explain why. The reason that comment had such an effect on me is not because I ended up crying in my beer for a week (well, ok, it was only three days...