The ULTIMATE SHARPENING workflow for master fine art printing (what is the best?)...
I am in the process of producing a DVD series on the subject matter of sharpening for fine art printing. I have been an avid student of sharpening workflow and fine art print making for about 9 years and have read just about every theory on the subject as well as had the great privilege of testing, implementing, and trying out these regimens. I have come to a point where I think I have the issue mastered (meaning having it down to the point where I don't think it can get any better/produce any better real world print results). People are constantly hiring me to either TEACH them these things or simply DO their post production work for them. So, it dawned on me, why not lay the issue out in an easy to understand/follow format and make all the "secrets" available for those who might benefit?
Having said all that, before I finalize the series I am in the process of double checking all my facts as well as refreshing to see if I have missed anything. I simply love to learn.
*SO I AM CURIOUS WHAT FOLKS MIGHT THINK IS THE BEST (in terms of fine art quality results vs. quickness or ease of workflow-production) SHARPENING WORKFLOW FOR FINE ART PRINTING?*
I'll throw the question out there with the hope that with multi-replies we all might learn something!:D I'm sure I will.
Mark, I don't know if you're going to address this in your teachings, but I think it's a subject that I don't recall really ever being talked about. And that is, deciding whether or not you even need to sharpen, and if so, how much? In other words, how does one evaluate an on-screen image at 100% view to decide whether or not they've got the sharpening for print just right?
I think folks my have a tendency to oversharpen a print. When you are looking at your file at 100% view (and at final print size and resolution) what factors do you use to determine if the sharpness you see on the screen will translate to a sharp, and realistically sharp large print?
I deal with film scans, but I can't see this being any different with a digital file - heck, at this point they're all digital files if we're talking about sharpening for print in PS right? Anyway, I look at one of my 20x24" print files at 100% and it can be quite disappointing if one expects pure, tack-sharp detail on your monitor. When I view the finished print and stick my nose in the print, I am usually quite happy with the print results.
So this says absolutely nothing and helps no one with the sharpening techniques themselves, but I just wanted to raise the topic of how one actually evaluates their files to determine if they're sharp enough for printing. Of course you could always to a test print, but that's really just trial and error. How do you visually determine on your monitor if the final image is ready for print?
I don't view my files at 100% anymore just because it's not realistic to me and I tended to oversharpen my images as Lon noted.
Instead, I view my images at 50% and that has worked well for me for several years now.
Posted by Lance Warley on July 29, 2011 at 8:45 AM
Mark, I just noticed you have this going in two forums. Any way to combine them?
This may sound kind of silly, but here's what I do...
In Preferences I set the rulers to read in inches. With my image sized as needed, I adjust the 'view' so that 1" on the screen ruler is the same as 1" on my physical steel rule. I then sharpen to taste.
I always do a proof to make sure everything is kool.
I use a manual three-stage sharpening process that more or less mimics the methodology of PK Sharpener. When I get to the final stage--output sharpening, applied after the image has been re-sized for print--I evaluate the effect of sharpening at 50%, not 100%, on the screen. I've always done it this way because, as I think John mentioned above, I discovered a long time ago that evaluating sharpening at a 100% view leads me to oversharpen the print. The 50% view seems to be the sweet spot.
I think your idea for a DVD series on sharpening for fine printing is great. May I suggest that you make the instruction in the form of an interactive tutorial: set it up so that a student can work on an image right along with you. You could even provide a sample image file that the student could use in order to learn the concepts.
For those who do not have a DVD player available, you might also consider an e-Book and/or a PDF that the student could use.
I have seen some sharpening routines on the Web that are overly complex, in my opinion. (caveat: This may have been due to way they are written). I believe most of us who do our own printing want procedures that are reasonably easy to accomplish. That said, some of the more complex procedures do give outstanding results. If your procedures are complex, be sure that the instructions are written and illustrated so that they are easy to follow.
I can't afford a lot of plugins (like NIK or others), nor do I have the desire to negotiate their learning curves (PS is hard enough, already). Personally, I prefer to use the tools available within Photo Shop, so I would be more inclined to use procedures that do not rely on plugins.
Lastly, Mark, please make your educational materials affordable.
If you need a beta tester, please let me know. I have forty years of photo experience, and nearly twenty-five years experience as an educator. I am more than willng to help.
Your project sounds great, and I am sure the product will be welcomed. I wish you well in your endeavor!
Here are some of my general thoughts . . . hope they're responsive.
As far as what is "best" in terms of quickness versus quality, I think the folks who are likely to purchase a DVD on sharpening for print are going to be willing to spend some time to get sharpness just right. So quickness and ease of workflow are probably not a top consideration. You can probably offer a range of options to folks on your DVD so that those looking for a quick, generally acceptable result have a workflow that will get them there, and then various options for further refinement that will lead to incrementally better results for the occasional print where top quality is really required.
I'm hardly one to make recommendations on sharpening workflow. I'm still trying to figure it out, frankly. Here are a few things that come to my mind when I think about sharpening:
Different Techniques. One thing I'd personally like to see from a DVD of this nature is an explanation of different sharpening techniques, when each is most effectively used, and how the techniques can be combined (when appropriate) to produce the finest possible result.
Variable Sharpening for Different Ranges of Luminosity. Also, I sometimes wonder about sharpening different ranges of luminosity to different degrees . . . I don't tinker with that, but I sometimes tell myself I need to experiment with it.
Sharpening Plug-Ins and Programs. I don't know if you intend to review the different sharpening plug-ins and programs, but that might be of interest to folks as well. Alternatively, an explanation of why those plug-ins and programs are unnecessary because the same results can be achieved in Photoshop would be interesting to me, if you happen to hold that opinion.
LAB Color Space. Finally, whether using the Lightness channel in LAB color space offers any benefit over luminosity sharpening in an RGB color space.
Anyway, that's all the stuff I wonder about and tell myself one day maybe I'll figure out. Some of these issues might be nonsensical, but if so I've yet to realize why. Good luck with your effort!
Good points about viewing at 50% rather than 100%, I find myself doing that.
Along the lines of my previous post, there's another topic that's less about technique and more about decisions. Folks should also consider that in many situations, not everything in an image needs to be sharpened. Open sky is an obvious example. and sharpening clouds may require different techniques or amounts than the detailed landscape.
So, another feature in teaching someone about sharpening is also teaching them about decisions in the process rather than just following a set work flow on every image.
Look at all this free consulting you're getting Mark!
Have your monitor at its highest resolution setting.
When an image is 300ppi or above (like maybe a Lambda prints 400ppi or a jet prints popular 360ppi) your best evaluative viewing distance is not 100% or even 50%, it is 25% (that is not to say 50% is not helpful). 100% is way too close.
When you make a compromise in PPI for enlargement purposes (as an example making it 200ppi for the Lightjet/Chromira/Lambda or maybe a 180 jet print...) and are at a 200ppi setting or below, then 50% is the best evaluative size.
Always discard in between sizes like 16.67, 33.33, 66.67! These mis-read your file and can not give you an accurate view of what is going on (especially the fine detail).
Then a lot will be elaborated on how to evaluate for print.
*As far as 100%, that is the ONLY viewing distance for dialing in Capture Sharpening at the raw stage (ACR)!
Good points about viewing at 50% rather than 100%, I find myself doing that.
Along the lines of my previous post, there's another topic that's less about technique and more about decisions. Folks should also consider that in many situations, not everything in an image needs to be sharpened. Open sky is an obvious example. and sharpening clouds may require different techniques or amounts than the detailed landscape.
So, another feature in teaching someone about sharpening is also teaching them about decisions in the process rather than just following a set work flow on every image.
Look at all this free consulting you're getting Mark!
Lon
Posted by Mark Stahlke on July 29, 2011 at 7:42 PM
If you're serious about sharpening, Bruce Fraser's Real World Image Sharpening is the bible. I highly recommend it for anyone who wants the absolute best sharpening possible.
"If you're serious about sharpening, Bruce Fraser's Real World Image Sharpening is the bible. I highly recommend it for anyone who wants the absolute best sharpening possible."
I CAN NOT AGREE MORE. I read that book until the pages were literally falling apart!
And of course, one must address EXACTLY what "Fine Art" is. We most have a concept of what it is. On the other hand, fine art may be what people buy to hang in their house. So, I would forward that their are multiple layers as to what Fine Art actually is. I tend to think, most people do not buy Unfine Art! Just because someone shoots more images than another does not mean that some of them cannot be labeled Fine Art...especially when these images are SELLING.
So, while someone might spend a great deal of time on one image to sell as Fine Art, others will have images that they cannot afford to spend hours fine tuning and still need to sell and do sell. So, it would be great to address this in the DVD. I know for a fact that SOME Fine Art looks great but does not sell, while other images "not so fine art" sell abundantly.
Now there are folks who consider themselves Fine Art photographers. And there are many photographers who don't claim it but are "fine art" photographers in their own right. So, which is the Fine Art Photographer??? I just want to put out there that just because you spend a large amount of time post processing your images does not mean you are going to be a Fine Art photographer. Of course there are many who are!
And there is the well established truth that most buyers will have no idea whatsoever how much time you have spent in post processing vs capturing an image in camera that needs very little post processing or whether you captured the image using RAW or jpg. If the image is beautiful, that is all they care about and they buy it.
When I go to Photography shows, I rarely here the the photographer describe how he composed and shot the image in seconds and then spent hours refining the image in post processing. I don't think the general public even wants to hear that. I pretty much think they love the photo and think what a WONDERFUL photographer this is (not what a wonderful Photoshop expert this is).
For a fast, down and dirty approach, check out this topic under the OTHER same name topic in this forum as mentioned near the top of this topic. It may help some of you out who do not have the time for large amounts of post processing. AS I said in my discussion in the other topic, my approach will rile some people. Such is life! I still can't wait for the DVD to come out!
For our purposes here (sharpening) I am defining the people doing "fine art workflow" simply as those who are willing to go slow and do each small step the very best way to produce the optimal quality result and are not too concerned with time restraints. Or another way previously put: creating a "master print." Master print quality. Mastering the steps to produce the highest level of quality.
I won't get into debate about what is, or what is not fine art (maybe a good topic/thread for the forum though).
There will be a few tips in the series for those who want less than ideal results but with the trade off of a less convoluted/faster workflow. Yet, that is not what the title (or series) will be targeting...
"Production" on the other hand (the direct opposite of what this series will address) would be those in a hurry that need quick results that will suffice.
This first series will be provocatively entitled "The Ultimate Sharpening Workflow for Master Fine Art Printing (or Prints, or Print Making)." I believe it will attract those who want to master printing, improve the quality of their prints, and those who simply feel they still have more to learn and room to grow in that process.
Discussion
18 repliesI am in the process of producing a DVD series on the subject matter of sharpening for fine art printing. I have been an avid student of sharpening workflow and fine art print making for about 9 years and have read just about every theory on the subject as well as had the great privilege of testing, implementing, and trying out these regimens. I have come to a point where I think I have the issue mastered (meaning having it down to the point where I don't think it can get any better/produce any better real world print results). People are constantly hiring me to either TEACH them these things or simply DO their post production work for them. So, it dawned on me, why not lay the issue out in an easy to understand/follow format and make all the "secrets" available for those who might benefit?
Having said all that, before I finalize the series I am in the process of double checking all my facts as well as refreshing to see if I have missed anything. I simply love to learn.
*SO I AM CURIOUS WHAT FOLKS MIGHT THINK IS THE BEST (in terms of fine art quality results vs. quickness or ease of workflow-production) SHARPENING WORKFLOW FOR FINE ART PRINTING?*
I'll throw the question out there with the hope that with multi-replies we all might learn something!:D I'm sure I will.
Sandy
I think folks my have a tendency to oversharpen a print. When you are looking at your file at 100% view (and at final print size and resolution) what factors do you use to determine if the sharpness you see on the screen will translate to a sharp, and realistically sharp large print?
I deal with film scans, but I can't see this being any different with a digital file - heck, at this point they're all digital files if we're talking about sharpening for print in PS right? Anyway, I look at one of my 20x24" print files at 100% and it can be quite disappointing if one expects pure, tack-sharp detail on your monitor. When I view the finished print and stick my nose in the print, I am usually quite happy with the print results.
So this says absolutely nothing and helps no one with the sharpening techniques themselves, but I just wanted to raise the topic of how one actually evaluates their files to determine if they're sharp enough for printing. Of course you could always to a test print, but that's really just trial and error. How do you visually determine on your monitor if the final image is ready for print?
Good topic.
Lon
Instead, I view my images at 50% and that has worked well for me for several years now.
In Preferences I set the rulers to read in inches. With my image sized as needed, I adjust the 'view' so that 1" on the screen ruler is the same as 1" on my physical steel rule. I then sharpen to taste.
I always do a proof to make sure everything is kool.
--P
I think your idea for a DVD series on sharpening for fine printing is great. May I suggest that you make the instruction in the form of an interactive tutorial: set it up so that a student can work on an image right along with you. You could even provide a sample image file that the student could use in order to learn the concepts.
For those who do not have a DVD player available, you might also consider an e-Book and/or a PDF that the student could use.
I have seen some sharpening routines on the Web that are overly complex, in my opinion. (caveat: This may have been due to way they are written). I believe most of us who do our own printing want procedures that are reasonably easy to accomplish. That said, some of the more complex procedures do give outstanding results. If your procedures are complex, be sure that the instructions are written and illustrated so that they are easy to follow.
I can't afford a lot of plugins (like NIK or others), nor do I have the desire to negotiate their learning curves (PS is hard enough, already). Personally, I prefer to use the tools available within Photo Shop, so I would be more inclined to use procedures that do not rely on plugins.
Lastly, Mark, please make your educational materials affordable.
If you need a beta tester, please let me know. I have forty years of photo experience, and nearly twenty-five years experience as an educator. I am more than willng to help.
Your project sounds great, and I am sure the product will be welcomed. I wish you well in your endeavor!
--P
As far as what is "best" in terms of quickness versus quality, I think the folks who are likely to purchase a DVD on sharpening for print are going to be willing to spend some time to get sharpness just right. So quickness and ease of workflow are probably not a top consideration. You can probably offer a range of options to folks on your DVD so that those looking for a quick, generally acceptable result have a workflow that will get them there, and then various options for further refinement that will lead to incrementally better results for the occasional print where top quality is really required.
I'm hardly one to make recommendations on sharpening workflow. I'm still trying to figure it out, frankly. Here are a few things that come to my mind when I think about sharpening:
Different Techniques. One thing I'd personally like to see from a DVD of this nature is an explanation of different sharpening techniques, when each is most effectively used, and how the techniques can be combined (when appropriate) to produce the finest possible result.
Variable Sharpening for Different Ranges of Luminosity. Also, I sometimes wonder about sharpening different ranges of luminosity to different degrees . . . I don't tinker with that, but I sometimes tell myself I need to experiment with it.
Sharpening Plug-Ins and Programs. I don't know if you intend to review the different sharpening plug-ins and programs, but that might be of interest to folks as well. Alternatively, an explanation of why those plug-ins and programs are unnecessary because the same results can be achieved in Photoshop would be interesting to me, if you happen to hold that opinion.
LAB Color Space. Finally, whether using the Lightness channel in LAB color space offers any benefit over luminosity sharpening in an RGB color space.
Anyway, that's all the stuff I wonder about and tell myself one day maybe I'll figure out. Some of these issues might be nonsensical, but if so I've yet to realize why. Good luck with your effort!
Along the lines of my previous post, there's another topic that's less about technique and more about decisions. Folks should also consider that in many situations, not everything in an image needs to be sharpened. Open sky is an obvious example. and sharpening clouds may require different techniques or amounts than the detailed landscape.
So, another feature in teaching someone about sharpening is also teaching them about decisions in the process rather than just following a set work flow on every image.
Look at all this free consulting you're getting Mark!
Lon
But here is a preview:
Have your monitor at its highest resolution setting.
When an image is 300ppi or above (like maybe a Lambda prints 400ppi or a jet prints popular 360ppi) your best evaluative viewing distance is not 100% or even 50%, it is 25% (that is not to say 50% is not helpful). 100% is way too close.
When you make a compromise in PPI for enlargement purposes (as an example making it 200ppi for the Lightjet/Chromira/Lambda or maybe a 180 jet print...) and are at a 200ppi setting or below, then 50% is the best evaluative size.
Always discard in between sizes like 16.67, 33.33, 66.67! These mis-read your file and can not give you an accurate view of what is going on (especially the fine detail).
Then a lot will be elaborated on how to evaluate for print.
*As far as 100%, that is the ONLY viewing distance for dialing in Capture Sharpening at the raw stage (ACR)!
Along the lines of my previous post, there's another topic that's less about technique and more about decisions. Folks should also consider that in many situations, not everything in an image needs to be sharpened. Open sky is an obvious example. and sharpening clouds may require different techniques or amounts than the detailed landscape.
So, another feature in teaching someone about sharpening is also teaching them about decisions in the process rather than just following a set work flow on every image.
Look at all this free consulting you're getting Mark!
Lon
"If you're serious about sharpening, Bruce Fraser's Real World Image Sharpening is the bible. I highly recommend it for anyone who wants the absolute best sharpening possible."
I CAN NOT AGREE MORE. I read that book until the pages were literally falling apart!
So, while someone might spend a great deal of time on one image to sell as Fine Art, others will have images that they cannot afford to spend hours fine tuning and still need to sell and do sell. So, it would be great to address this in the DVD. I know for a fact that SOME Fine Art looks great but does not sell, while other images "not so fine art" sell abundantly.
Now there are folks who consider themselves Fine Art photographers. And there are many photographers who don't claim it but are "fine art" photographers in their own right. So, which is the Fine Art Photographer??? I just want to put out there that just because you spend a large amount of time post processing your images does not mean you are going to be a Fine Art photographer. Of course there are many who are!
And there is the well established truth that most buyers will have no idea whatsoever how much time you have spent in post processing vs capturing an image in camera that needs very little post processing or whether you captured the image using RAW or jpg. If the image is beautiful, that is all they care about and they buy it.
When I go to Photography shows, I rarely here the the photographer describe how he composed and shot the image in seconds and then spent hours refining the image in post processing. I don't think the general public even wants to hear that. I pretty much think they love the photo and think what a WONDERFUL photographer this is (not what a wonderful Photoshop expert this is).
For a fast, down and dirty approach, check out this topic under the OTHER same name topic in this forum as mentioned near the top of this topic. It may help some of you out who do not have the time for large amounts of post processing. AS I said in my discussion in the other topic, my approach will rile some people. Such is life! I still can't wait for the DVD to come out!
Congrats to Mark for working to accomplish this
I won't get into debate about what is, or what is not fine art (maybe a good topic/thread for the forum though).
There will be a few tips in the series for those who want less than ideal results but with the trade off of a less convoluted/faster workflow. Yet, that is not what the title (or series) will be targeting...
"Production" on the other hand (the direct opposite of what this series will address) would be those in a hurry that need quick results that will suffice.
This first series will be provocatively entitled "The Ultimate Sharpening Workflow for Master Fine Art Printing (or Prints, or Print Making)." I believe it will attract those who want to master printing, improve the quality of their prints, and those who simply feel they still have more to learn and room to grow in that process.