The story is this: My backyard borders woods and a pond. Across the pond are trees where two or three dozen great egrets and some snowy egrets and various kinds of herons roost at night. Unfortunately for me the trees are across the widest part of the pond. Since I got the 7D a few days ago I have been practicing shooting BIF images when the birds leave in the morning and come back in the evening. The problem is there just isn't enough light either time.
This image had so much noise because of the lack of light at the top of the bird that I removed some of it, resulting in the extreme softness you see here (plus the softness there was already from my execution of a handheld shot, which is why I'm practicing so much).
I know that you can't get good BIF images in harsh light either.
So when is the optimal time for the optimal light for BIF images?
Thank you.
Posted by Ron Bielefeld on October 6, 2011 at 4:06 PM
Barbara, what were your SS, aperture, and ISO for this shot? I assume you were using your 400mm.
Posted by Richard Ditch on October 6, 2011 at 4:22 PM
You may be expecting too much in wanting to shoot the backyard birds in the light you describe. Photography is full of compromises and you need to play a game of trade-offs. Smaller aperture (larger number) for more depth of field; higher shutter speed to stop subject motion and camera shake; low ISO to avoid noise - all are working against each other. Light at dawn and at dusk is soft, but also not as bright as you might need.
Better to look for birds in a place where the conditions work to your advantage. A rookery where you can get close enough to avoid heavy dropping. A place where you are between the light and the birds.
The "classic" situation at Bosque del Apache for geese and cranes is mid to late afternoon with the sun and the wind coming from your back as you face incoming birds that fly into the wind.
Posted by Ron Bielefeld on October 6, 2011 at 4:32 PM
Barbara, look back at your post in the bird forum from 3/3/11. The light you had for the gull and vulture looks very nice. That is what you are looking for. Basically, when you are new at flight shots, you are looking for enough light to get you to a manual setting of something like this: ISO 500, SS 1/2000s, f/:5.6 to 7.1 as a minimum. That is, low enough ISO to keep the noise down on that nice 7D of yours, enough shutter speed to help you stop the action of a bird in flight and give you some wiggle room on tracking accuracy, and enough DOF to get a bird the size of a great egret sharp further out than just the point of focus.
Now during mid-day on a sunny day you will get to this minimum and beyond, but the light will be harsh and your images will not look very nice for the most part. So, look for early morning and late evening light that will get you to that minium exposure setting or something similar.
Don't take that example setting as the only setting for BIF shots. The main points to take from this is you need enough light to keep your ISO in a decent range, give you a fast enough SS, and allow you to use an aperture of at least 5.6 given that is the wide open setting on your 400mm.
Generally, I find these conditions around 9-10 am on a sunny day for example. Some situations such as your birds coming and going too early or late for enough light, just don't lend themselves to getting flight shots. Not much you can do, just look for other opportunities.
Posted by Garry Revesz on October 7, 2011 at 12:48 AM
Barbara, I concur with everything Rich and Ron have already stated. BIF are one of the most difficult subjects to photograph and the lighting is so critical. I have a 7D as well, and when trying to get BIF, I found the noise on the 7D above 400 ISO was very limiting and coupled with the 19 point AF system on the 7D made it very challenging to get sharp images with the right exposure; but not impossible. However, I am lucky enough to also have a 1D Mark IV, and in comparison, I find it so much more superior to capturing BIF. With a fps rate of 10, a 45 point AF and low noise, even up 2500 ISO, more than 50% of my bursts are very sharp images; right on, and I can still shoot at 1/1600, 1/2000 or more SS. The light is everything. I don't want to depress you, my intent was just to give some information you could compare with.
Hope that helps
Garry R
Toronto, CAN
Posted by John Cubit on October 7, 2011 at 1:18 PM
Barbara,
It is simple, and well-lit bird shots can be done with just about any SLR camera. The following points are based on advice from the experts and have worked very well for me. When I started following this advice, my keeper rate for flying birds went well over 75%, with the losers mainly resulting from the birds not being well framed within the image.
On a bright, sunny day, shoot with the light low in the sky (early morning or late afternoon). Position yourself so the the sun is directly behind you and illuminating the bird straight on, like you were aiming the light source straight at the bird from your position. Because of the angle of the light, this bright light will not produce the harsh lighting you mention.
On a bright overcast day, you have more leeway in timing and position, but choose your position and time of day to avoid having the bright sky in the photo frame behind the bird. Bright overcast light can produce very nice photos of birds showing details of colors and feather structure
For dark birds, or white birds like your flying egret, be especially careful with your exposure setting. If you can't get your camera's exposure points directly and only on the bird, the camera will adjust exposure to the background and over- or under- expose your image. You will be better off using manual exposure. This is pretty simple. For example, for your white egret, try to find a still egret, white sign, or other white object in the sun and meter from this object to get your setting.
In the opposite light direction, photos of back-lit birds can also be dramatically special.
Look critically at bird photos from the experts and you will see the lighting described here.
Regarding shutter speed, for flying birds you will need a fast shutter speed if your objective is a sharp image. The experts recommend a minimum of 1/2000th. Boost your ISO as high as necessary to get the correct exposure at this speed. At lower shutter speeds, flying birds will lose their sharpness, which will be especially detracting if the tip of the bill is fuzzy. (Blurry wing tips can be an asset.) Noise? A common error is under-exposing the camera shot to avoid noise from a higher ISO, then trying to fix the exposure in PhotoShop. However, this will produce much more noise in your image than the higher ISO.
You are lucky to have the subjects in your backyard, because the ending advice from the experts is practice, practice, practice and carefully review your photos.
Discussion
7 repliesThis image had so much noise because of the lack of light at the top of the bird that I removed some of it, resulting in the extreme softness you see here (plus the softness there was already from my execution of a handheld shot, which is why I'm practicing so much).
I know that you can't get good BIF images in harsh light either.
So when is the optimal time for the optimal light for BIF images?
Thank you.
Better to look for birds in a place where the conditions work to your advantage. A rookery where you can get close enough to avoid heavy dropping. A place where you are between the light and the birds.
The "classic" situation at Bosque del Apache for geese and cranes is mid to late afternoon with the sun and the wind coming from your back as you face incoming birds that fly into the wind.
Now during mid-day on a sunny day you will get to this minimum and beyond, but the light will be harsh and your images will not look very nice for the most part. So, look for early morning and late evening light that will get you to that minium exposure setting or something similar.
Don't take that example setting as the only setting for BIF shots. The main points to take from this is you need enough light to keep your ISO in a decent range, give you a fast enough SS, and allow you to use an aperture of at least 5.6 given that is the wide open setting on your 400mm.
Generally, I find these conditions around 9-10 am on a sunny day for example. Some situations such as your birds coming and going too early or late for enough light, just don't lend themselves to getting flight shots. Not much you can do, just look for other opportunities.
Hope that helps
Garry R
Toronto, CAN
It is simple, and well-lit bird shots can be done with just about any SLR camera. The following points are based on advice from the experts and have worked very well for me. When I started following this advice, my keeper rate for flying birds went well over 75%, with the losers mainly resulting from the birds not being well framed within the image.
On a bright, sunny day, shoot with the light low in the sky (early morning or late afternoon). Position yourself so the the sun is directly behind you and illuminating the bird straight on, like you were aiming the light source straight at the bird from your position. Because of the angle of the light, this bright light will not produce the harsh lighting you mention.
On a bright overcast day, you have more leeway in timing and position, but choose your position and time of day to avoid having the bright sky in the photo frame behind the bird. Bright overcast light can produce very nice photos of birds showing details of colors and feather structure
For dark birds, or white birds like your flying egret, be especially careful with your exposure setting. If you can't get your camera's exposure points directly and only on the bird, the camera will adjust exposure to the background and over- or under- expose your image. You will be better off using manual exposure. This is pretty simple. For example, for your white egret, try to find a still egret, white sign, or other white object in the sun and meter from this object to get your setting.
In the opposite light direction, photos of back-lit birds can also be dramatically special.
Look critically at bird photos from the experts and you will see the lighting described here.
Regarding shutter speed, for flying birds you will need a fast shutter speed if your objective is a sharp image. The experts recommend a minimum of 1/2000th. Boost your ISO as high as necessary to get the correct exposure at this speed. At lower shutter speeds, flying birds will lose their sharpness, which will be especially detracting if the tip of the bill is fuzzy. (Blurry wing tips can be an asset.) Noise? A common error is under-exposing the camera shot to avoid noise from a higher ISO, then trying to fix the exposure in PhotoShop. However, this will produce much more noise in your image than the higher ISO.
You are lucky to have the subjects in your backyard, because the ending advice from the experts is practice, practice, practice and carefully review your photos.
Best,
John