Posted by Mark Seaver on October 17, 2011 at 11:43 AM
For the last three weeks I was limited to processing (LR3 and PS5) on my laptop. I've calibrated it with a Spyder3 but what I see is so sensitive to the viewing angle of the screen. Now that I'm home using a calibrated desktop, I'm looking at my posts and most of them are somewhat to significantly dark. In addition, some have the crunchy look of over sharpening. I tried to adjust my laptop angle during processing for the brightest image and that seems to be wrong. What do others do when processing only on a laptop? My machine is a MacBook Pro.
Posted by David Graham on October 17, 2011 at 12:37 PM
The cure to the problem of inconsistency of brightness of the print with brightness of the laptop's screen image is to assure that you are viewing the laptop screen from an accurately perpendicular perspective. Although there are several bits of hardware you can purchase to attach to the edge of your laptops screen, a 3x5 index card will do the trick ( thanks to it's 90 degree corners). tape the 5" edge of the card to the side edge of your screen so that the 3" edge is at the horizontal midline of the screen. The card can be folded inward or outward while you are post-processing to assure that your line- of- sight is perpendicular to the screen. If the screen leans too much toward you, the image will appear too bright. If it leans away from you...too dark. When you are sighting in a plane along that upper edge of the index card, your perspective is exactly perpendicular to the screen and your print brightness will correspond to that of the image you see while processing.
In my experience, desktop monitors typically have higher quality screens and better viewing off-axis than do laptop screens. If I were having trouble processing on a laptop, I would choose to do all my processing of critical work using the desktop monitor. The other advantage is you have more screen real estate to work with.
Just my 0.002.
--P
Posted by David Graham on October 17, 2011 at 2:10 PM
Mark,
Preston, as is his style, is spot-on in his comparison of laptop vs. desktop monitors. Having just re-equipped my digital darkroom with a magnificent custom Puget System desk-top computer I'm in P-P heaven. But there are those times when one is unavoidably driven to laptop use, as I shall be during an up-coming two-to-three week photographic road trip. My laptop will serve yeoman editing duty for that period and I must rely, as regards image brightness, on accurate assessment thereof on my laptop until I return home. So for those who, due to temporary circumstantial convenience or economics, find themselves having to rely on a laptop, use of the credit card accessory to assure perpendicular viewing of the monitor screen will avoid erroneous judgements re: brightness of any particular file's image.
Would it be possible for you to post a shot of the procedure you discussed in your first comment. It looks like a great way to make a laptop screen work for in-the-fiefd processing.
--P
Posted by Mark Seaver on October 17, 2011 at 4:19 PM
Thanks guys. After my post, I realized that the calibration used a sensor oriented perpendicular to the screen. This got me thinking about an 18 inch T-square taped to my nose, , but I like Dave's idea much better. Since I'm hoping to spend 6 - 8 weeks a year at our Montana home and don't want to own two desktops and a laptop or ship the desktop back and forth, I'd really like to be able to do quality work on the laptop.
If I'm at home or in the studio I just plug a desktop monitor into my laptop (an older MacBook Pro). If I'm traveling or handing off files to clients on location, I prefer not to process at all for the reasons you cite. If really pressed I'll do a little processing, but never any color adjustment or sharpening.
Posted by Mark Seaver on October 17, 2011 at 4:29 PM
Hank, I looked into getting the new Thunderbolt monitor, but was dissuaded because both my wife and daughter have had major hardware problems (e.g. sudden death) with their laptops when they got to be 3 - 4 years old. They both use their laptop as their only CPU. Experts at the local Apple users group also indicated that laptops are not as long term reliable as a desktop, so I'm planning to keep a desktop as my main computer but need the laptop for traveling and for my part time consulting work. When I started the monitor vs desktop investigation I was hoping to become laptop only.
I understand completely Mark! I bought this one in 2002 and have since added several case dents while completely wearing the letters off about half the keys. And I'm holding my breath! Lots of backups, but the inevitable is closer than I would like I fear. Air is next, for sure.
Posted by Scott Fricke on October 17, 2011 at 6:35 PM
Maybe something you already consider, but do you make sure your screen brightness is appropriate? On my MacBook Pro it needs to be down to about 50-60% to edit photos correctly.
In regard to your reliability issues, on the laptop I just purchased to replace one that was stolen, I purchased the optional solid state hard drive which is not affected by movement or banging around when you are carrying it around.
Posted by Mark Seaver on October 17, 2011 at 6:57 PM
Scott, the reliability issues were both mother board related for my wife and my daughter. We learned how to pull the hard drive and hook it up externally to retrieve the data after my daughter's died. (It was working find, she turned it off and an hour later it wouldn't even start in terminal mode.)
Oh that's great....so everything edited with my MacBook Pro is going to s#ck if someone views it from a desktop monitor?
Posted by David Graham on October 17, 2011 at 10:03 PM
Preston,
You asked for some images of what I described.
I have three image's to post illustrating use of the "index card laptop screen viewing perpendiculometer", but I seem to be stymied at every turn in trying to paste the image's into my reply...must I start a new topic in order to post the image's or is threesome work-around to get this done?
Thanks,
Dave
Posted by Dottie Short on October 18, 2011 at 12:37 PM
Achieving the perpendicular angle of the laptop screen is one thing, but the position of the viewer comes into play too. The height of the desk and chair should be considered. When I placed my LT screen perpendicular, I realized that many times, while working in my RV, this setup will not work. The screen had to be tilted backward somewhat. Any suggestions as to how these two factors work together?
I spent three months on the road this summer driving to Alaska. I blogged the trip and posted numerous images on my blog. Realizing that the LT was not the best editing option, I chose to do minimal editing. I'm redoing my best images on my Apple desktop.
DotShortPhotography.me
Posted by David Bostedo on October 18, 2011 at 4:57 PM
Achieving the perpendicular angle of the laptop screen is one thing, but the position of the viewer comes into play too.
No one is suggesting here that the laptop screen should be perpendicular to the rest of the laptop, Dottie. When people are saying "perpendicular" they mean perpendicular to their viewing angle. If you have the laptop on your lap, the correct/best screen angle will be tilted back at about 45 degrees, so that your line of sight and the screen are perpendicular.
The higher you have the laptop, the more vertical the screen will be, and vice-versa for a lower laptop.
The point of using something like the index cards suggested above is that wherever you move the laptop to - maybe from table, to lap, to a bed - you can adjust so that it's perpendicular to how you're viewing it.
Posted by David Bostedo on October 18, 2011 at 5:03 PM
Oh that's great....so everything edited with my MacBook Pro is going to s#ck if someone views it from a desktop monitor?
Yes. Seriously though, this might be a little overblown. While calibration, profiling, and consistency are important, I've never found the difference caused by being slightly off angle in laptop screen viewing to actually ruin any images in any way. Sure, maybe they're a bit lighter, or darker, or a bit off in white balance compared to what you might get with the "perfect" desktop setup. But I've never found this to be that big a deal. (One caveat - I have only used laptops with very good screens. By all accounts, though, a Macbook Pro would qualify as the same category.)
Some people seem to freak out because someone else sees a very slight color cast, or the greens are off by 2 points, etc. For me, given the number of people seeing it, those are very minor. If those are the only issues people are seeing, and if you're happy with your screen and your prints, then you're in a good place.
Posted by Mark Seaver on October 18, 2011 at 8:17 PM
David's right, none of my posts this time are terrible, but in some cases the darkening changes significantly the feeling that I was trying to convey and in an earlier experience made one image so dark that it looked bad.
...changes significantly the feeling that I was trying to convey....
That's the critical element in all aspects of photography. If you can't sustain the "feeling" of a photo all the way through to the viewer, I think the point of most photography is lost.
Here's an interesting experiment. Turn off the sound when watching TV or a movie, and just watch the photography. The heck with plot, special effects, all of it. Just look at the decisions made by the director/lighting artist/photographer and speculate about what they were trying to achieve. It's really "illuminating" for me, at least.
BTW- I think some of the very best cinematography in recent years has been in the series of Jesse Stone movies adapted from mystery novels by Robert B. Parker. The work they did with natural light and settings to convey mood to go with the action is stellar. I only WISH that I was that good in my still photography.
Posted by Dottie Short on October 20, 2011 at 12:43 AM
Thanks for the clarification on the LT position and sitting position. That makes sense to me and that was the point I was trying to make,but didn't express myself properly. So I don't quite understand how the 3x5 works? When editing on the LT, I just eyeball it. The edited images look reasonable well to me.
Posted by David Bostedo on October 20, 2011 at 9:20 AM
Personally, I just eyeball it. But as I said, I have a screen that shows very little problems with angles as long as I'm close, compared to other screens I've seen.
Posted by Dottie Short on October 22, 2011 at 2:13 PM
Thanks David for clearing the 3x5 card thing up. Maybe my ApplePro LT is the reason I'm getting good results.
Discussion
20 repliesDave Graham, East River, SD
Just my 0.002.
--P
Preston, as is his style, is spot-on in his comparison of laptop vs. desktop monitors. Having just re-equipped my digital darkroom with a magnificent custom Puget System desk-top computer I'm in P-P heaven. But there are those times when one is unavoidably driven to laptop use, as I shall be during an up-coming two-to-three week photographic road trip. My laptop will serve yeoman editing duty for that period and I must rely, as regards image brightness, on accurate assessment thereof on my laptop until I return home. So for those who, due to temporary circumstantial convenience or economics, find themselves having to rely on a laptop, use of the credit card accessory to assure perpendicular viewing of the monitor screen will avoid erroneous judgements re: brightness of any particular file's image.
Dave Graham
East River, SD
Would it be possible for you to post a shot of the procedure you discussed in your first comment. It looks like a great way to make a laptop screen work for in-the-fiefd processing.
--P
In regard to your reliability issues, on the laptop I just purchased to replace one that was stolen, I purchased the optional solid state hard drive which is not affected by movement or banging around when you are carrying it around.
You asked for some images of what I described.
I have three image's to post illustrating use of the "index card laptop screen viewing perpendiculometer", but I seem to be stymied at every turn in trying to paste the image's into my reply...must I start a new topic in order to post the image's or is threesome work-around to get this done?
Thanks,
Dave
I spent three months on the road this summer driving to Alaska. I blogged the trip and posted numerous images on my blog. Realizing that the LT was not the best editing option, I chose to do minimal editing. I'm redoing my best images on my Apple desktop.
DotShortPhotography.me
No one is suggesting here that the laptop screen should be perpendicular to the rest of the laptop, Dottie. When people are saying "perpendicular" they mean perpendicular to their viewing angle. If you have the laptop on your lap, the correct/best screen angle will be tilted back at about 45 degrees, so that your line of sight and the screen are perpendicular.
The higher you have the laptop, the more vertical the screen will be, and vice-versa for a lower laptop.
The point of using something like the index cards suggested above is that wherever you move the laptop to - maybe from table, to lap, to a bed - you can adjust so that it's perpendicular to how you're viewing it.
Yes.
Some people seem to freak out because someone else sees a very slight color cast, or the greens are off by 2 points, etc. For me, given the number of people seeing it, those are very minor. If those are the only issues people are seeing, and if you're happy with your screen and your prints, then you're in a good place.
That's the critical element in all aspects of photography. If you can't sustain the "feeling" of a photo all the way through to the viewer, I think the point of most photography is lost.
Here's an interesting experiment. Turn off the sound when watching TV or a movie, and just watch the photography. The heck with plot, special effects, all of it. Just look at the decisions made by the director/lighting artist/photographer and speculate about what they were trying to achieve. It's really "illuminating" for me, at least.
BTW- I think some of the very best cinematography in recent years has been in the series of Jesse Stone movies adapted from mystery novels by Robert B. Parker. The work they did with natural light and settings to convey mood to go with the action is stellar. I only WISH that I was that good in my still photography.
Personally, I just eyeball it. But as I said, I have a screen that shows very little problems with angles as long as I'm close, compared to other screens I've seen.