Posted by Ian Mason on November 8, 2011 at 3:50 PM
We all go through phases, but there appear to be only 2-3 post each day recently. Way down on what it was. Maybe it is because people are fed up getting so few comments or helpful critique? There are millions of good nature images out there to be enjoyed and discussed! Any thoughts?
Posted by John Robinson on November 8, 2011 at 5:53 PM
Things have certainly changed. The number of people viewing still seems up but as you say the relationship between them and the number of comments is appalling. Maybe its that very fact that has put people off. As I said in a similar post recently one goes to a lot of effort to take prepare and present the pictures only to result in one or two comments. Its a shame because as you say there's a lot of stuff out there. What is also interesting is the response to certain subjects regarding number of views and then subsequently the comments. You only have to peruse the last few weeks posts to see what I mean. If this encourages the posting of subjects that will attract comments it all seems a bit daft to me. Like I said years ago on this forum- if you don't getany comments then they can't find anything wrong !!
JR
Posted by Mike Smith on November 9, 2011 at 2:04 AM
Forums are never constant but are cyclical for a number of reasons, there are the Pro photographers who showcase for a while and then as their careers develop have less time to spend here, Guy Edwardes, David Clapp and Danny G are juist a few that immediately come to mind.
Then people naturally move on with their lives for a number of reasons, currently I am in that stage, 30+ years as a practical conservationist and photographer but currently struggling with work and other commitments, I haven't posted an image for a considerable period of time simply because I do not have time to go out with a camera at present.
There is also a natural evolution of leisure time activity, there do seem to be fewer young people emerging with an interest in photography, the vast majority of images these days are taken with phones or micro all in one zoom cameras, rather than interchangeable lens cameras so the natural progression is for long lens telephoto photography to become even more specialised. - ie fewer people are likley to dabble.
That said I am sure come the Spring people will get a new lease of life and things will pick up!
Posted by Bob Johnson on November 9, 2011 at 3:38 AM
I must agree with Mike. Running a business, keeping the wife happy etc, etc. Apart from holidays I barely have time to prepare talks and get out with the camera and I certainly struggle to fit in image preps for the NPN. When I do post I always try to put up something different from my previous posts and of course this can be difficult when you spend most of the spring and summer with one family of LOWLS. I personally hate series postings and would not post a string of LOWL shots every two days no matter how good they were.
I do however look at NPN regularly when email prompts arrive on my desk. But I am guilty of just commenting on the very few pics that I think are exceptional or are perhaps contributed by people that I know personally. I never feel inclined to comment on what I consider to be poor ones though, as I hate being negative about someone elses work.
Bob
Posted by David Sewell on November 9, 2011 at 6:37 AM
I would like to know what proportion of those viewing are actually members. As only members can now comment (I think) it is quite possible that most of those looking at a picture are unable to express an opinion. That said, I still think the number of postings and comments are way down. It may also, of course, be a seasonal thing. In Kent at least the weather has been awful over the last few weeks. I have only been out once in the last four weeks, and got nothing then that I would be prepared to post. That means I can only continue to post stuff from my recent African trip - and that is often more suited to the Avian or Wildlife galleries than UKNP.
It's ironic that I have less time to take pictures now that I'm a full-time wildlife photographer than when I was working in another industry a few months ago. I agree with Ian's observation, and is a nasty downhill spiral.
There are a number of new, more vibrant, photography websites now that other 'ex-NPN' members (& I) are participating. I think NPN needs to innovate, and do more to encourage participation. Charging for membership and making it more exclusive for example, is a step in the wrong direction in my personal opinion.
Lastly, I think not having an folks like those Mike's mentioned is a real lost to this forum.
Posted by Matt Cole on November 9, 2011 at 8:18 AM
I agree with Des. Sadly, the forum entered a downward spiral some months ago, in fact ever since it moved to the new gallery format. There have always been seasonal fluctuations but this is far more severe than that. As soon as the comments start to drop off people start leaving which leads to fewer comments etc etc. The loss of some of the more experienced members is particularly noticeable.
Unfortunately, I don't think there's any clear solution which is a real shame. In its prime, this was by the far the best site of its kind on the web and I certainly benefited from the advice and feedback received,
Matt
Posted by Andy Shepherd on November 9, 2011 at 9:41 AM
I think Des and Matt have hit the nail on the head, ever since UKNP/NPN became a paying members only site, both posting and commenting numbers look to be way down, admittedly anyone can view the images but these people can no longer comment unless they pay the $49.
As for the reason being seasonal I disagree, if you look back to before this site became members only, the contribution from registered users, as opposed to payed up members, was considerable. This vast resource of knowledge and expertise has now gone and so have their images and comments.
I'd add to that if it continues to dry up as it has been in the last few months, members will allow their renewals to lapse and the downward spiral will continue ......
A great shame
Posted by Mike Smith on November 9, 2011 at 12:04 PM
Des
Regards participation decline there has been in the past a fair bit of effort trying to achieve this, either by the field trips or the conference. Fact is the forum membership is extremely wideley based and it is virtually impossible to set up a single location that can attract sufficient interest.
Given that a single location is never going to work particularly well, the next best thing I came up with was to have a specific "attend your local" WWT reserve/NT reserve/park etc for a day shoot aimed to achive a "best photo" of the day competition where shock horror members could actually meet other members - eg a rut season day out at the hotspots, but there was zero take up on people to act as host leader for the day - and that is the crux of the problem.
There are many simple ideas where we can encourage a day out along the lines of the above, straight off the top of my head 4 simple season trips could be
Winter geese/ducks sites - WWT reserves
Spring migration/flowers - could be fun introducing people to mud crawling or a local NT site day for best orchid picture of the day
Summer seabirds or reedbed colonies -
Autumn colour/deer rut
but it needs people to stick their head above the parapet and help identify locations that can work and act as leader for the day.
Mike
Posted by Barry Southon on November 9, 2011 at 3:30 PM
Ian
I from a personal point of view have always been of the opinion that UKNP was and still is unique in it's concept. Albeit I used the forum as a tutor and as my pictorial history shows learnt from the advice and critique freely offered by far better qualified participants than I. Knowing full well a large number being professional were still nonetheless prepared to help and offer advice.
Times change and in the prevailing economic climate other priorities surface.
The format change did make a significant difference and as far as UKNP is concerned activities slowed by a large percentage the friendly general atmosphere evaporated.
I had just paid a three year renewal so I was caught if I'd known how it was going to develop I'd have saved my money.
It's really up to us to change and make sure we regain what has been lost.
If anyone would like to make a day visit down here in the south I'd be more than happy to offer suggestions and I'll buy the teas.
Posted by Ian Mason on November 9, 2011 at 5:07 PM
So I am not alone in being concerned. I'm certainly up for leading a day trip or similar - although it would likely appeal only to Scottish members. I'm also keen on some sort of competition, or even an image of the week. Maybe we could personally invite some of our renowned colleagues to post something anonymously for critique, with viewers guessing the name of the photographer? I recall there was (in theory anyway) some sort of such competition a few years ago.
Bob
I never feel inclined to comment on what I consider to be poor ones though, as I hate being negative about someone elses work.
Yes, that can be extremely difficult, but I do feel that this forum is all about learning - I started as a compete rookie and the education from the forum has been immense. If anything, it is even more important in my view that proper, helpful feedback is given in such cases.
Graham
members will allow their renewals to lapse and the downward spiral will continue ......
My alternative opening question was:
"Why should I renew my membership?"
If it is the case that non-members cannot comment, then we really need to address this. I may be guilty of bad timing in view of the recent reduction in moderator numbers (is there now only one?). The forum has certainly worked well overall with excellent control (often barely visible) from our moderators. I do agree though that we need to change something.
I fear it may be a combination of factors. I for one have struggled over the past couple of years with a) loss of creative vision and b) decreased time for photography. I do think it is cyclical (I left UKNP briefly but returned) but do also feel that the membership requirement has contributed to the decline. However, we can't expect NPN to run this forum at a loss and I feel that what I have received from the forum has far exceeded the subscription fee that I pay.
I also believe that it's still the case, that contributing an article gives you a free year's membership - maybe that is an incentive for people to play a more active role in the NPN community?
Posted by John Robinson on November 9, 2011 at 6:25 PM
Ian
At the present rate of posting - a weekly competition wouldn't take much judging
I wonder a little some times about the types of critique that pop up on the forum. Maybe suggestions like cloneing out small twigs etc might not appeal to some posters- especially new ones. One thing I will repeat which I have said several times - there is often a lack of understanding of the difficulty of getting a particular picture both photographically and species wise.
The spectacular stuff will get the views and interest every time and I feel that leads to a slight inbalance generally.
Organising a day trip is relatively easy but the problem is weather on the day
.It doesn't matter so much if you are botanising or bird watching maybe - but photography ?. Could be a disaster.
Been there many times.
JR
I agree with many of the points here. The lack of innovation is a real issue I think. If pro photographers want to showcase then there are better, glossier sites. There is no real social networking capability here and the benefits of membership are fairly limited other than emailed discounts from US based stores (how about a link-up with a UK retailer?).
I'm hoping to get back on here soon to catch up on critique and maybe post an image or two but it annoys me that there are still some people who, to put it bluntly, can't be arsed to comment on any other peoples work but are still regularly post seeking comments and critique. This is a bit of a put off to me but I suppose its going to happen anywhere.
I really value this site but I do think it needs to move with the times.
Posted by Dawn Monrose on November 10, 2011 at 2:22 PM
Hi all,
Been following this with interest, trying to work out the reason for my own lack of posting. I agree with many of the points here, and for me work certainly gets in the way of photography.
The price of membership is quite expensive in my opinion, but I was very willing to pay to be a member of this forum, with the opportunity of having my work critiqued by some top professionals. I remember a sense of excitement and trepidation when first joining this forum and posting, and it was great to find people who were warm, friendly and generous with their advice and comments.
This all seems to have waned recently, perhaps people are too busy as pros, or drawn away by the glossier/more modern/free sites. UKNP still stands out as a place to get honest critique though, instead of just 'nice shot'. (Of course if it's good, saying 'nice shot' is just fine!)
Someone mentioned they were worried about being negative, but giving someone an honest opinion and constructive feedback on how to improve is far from negative, actually it's really positive and encouraging. There's a great article on NPN somewhere about the art of critique, perhaps worth another read.
At the end of the day it's the contributors who make the forum, yes interest/posts/comments are down, but all of us members can together make the forum a better place!
Just my thoughts...
And now with my shiny new camera, I'm going to try and post more often!
Posted by Phil Ellard on November 10, 2011 at 5:43 PM
I have been photographing seriously for about year to 18months. Untill I found this forum about 11 months ago I really was just guessing. It has put me in touch with some inspirational teachers and the opprtunity to get advice from so many differant people and see what their pictures look like has been invaluable. But i do feel that i have joined a community on the decline. This is a shame because i can see what it could be. I have not used other sites and do not plan to as i feel comfortable hear to express an opinion and put my pictures up, this is a valuable selling point, the friendlyness of the members.
As i have said before and as Dawn says this is our forum so surely if we want to change it we can. I do worry though I have faith in the future and believe things always go in peaks and troughs and if this a trough...
I do like the idea of trying to make the forum more social and would certainly be interested
Posted by Danny Green on November 10, 2011 at 5:52 PM
Hello Everyone
I have been reading this thread and as I am still a member of NPN I thought I would explain my lack of posts. I have been very busy this year and so I decided not to post any images. When I was still active I didn't have that much time to comment and this was picked up by a couple of fellow forum members who raised this point, so as I knew I didn't have the time to comment I decided not to post. Simon has already mentioned this point in this thread so people still feel strongly about it. So I think that is a reason a lot of people that I know don't post anymore. It is a shame because these Guys that have stopped posting were posting quality stuff and so once the quality in any forum drops, the number of people drop. Edwin Kats is a good friend of mine and that was the sole reason he stopped posting because he felt the quality had dropped. UKNP is on the slide that is for sure, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to work that one out. Maybe the people that have a lot of time to post and comment should have lightened up a bit and started to understand other peoples lack of time. I don't know how you are going to change that one though.
Danny
Posted by John Robinson on November 10, 2011 at 6:24 PM
A couple of points I would like to mention. There is this constant reference to the "lack" of time as being the cause of lack of postings. OK, I have as much time as I need ,being long retired- but as a test -- I have just taken an image out of my October folder- done a bit of the usual processing - cropped it, resized and sharpened- saved big and small for the site - and filed for posting. It took five and a half minutes. It will take a minute or so to psost it. Can people really not find that amount of time in a week to stick a picture on ??? .: They must be really,really,really busy. Even if they can't get out to take pics currently they must have hundreds archived.
The other point I would suggest is that it isn't only the "pros" that are capable of offering useful critique.
As I have said I have all the time in the world and post at every opportunity. The main reason of late for doing so along with a few others is to try and keep things going a bit .
JR
Posted by Jim Erhardt on November 10, 2011 at 6:30 PM
Another prespective;
In a "down economy" not only do people have less money, but motivation gets sapped by money worries, fear over job loss, etc. In other words, it's more difficult to relax and enjoy some leisure time.
This is entirely speculation on my part, but that is the way I feel.
Posted by Mike Smith on November 11, 2011 at 7:23 AM
John re creating time, This is not meant to be a poke but since I started full time work in 1980 there has been a noticeable cultural shift on the expected hours that people work, or indeed the distances people now have to travel to secure a job. My working day starts getting up at 6.00am and effectively having a 13 hour day getting home between 7.30 and 8.00 pm. Judging by the traffic on the roads and how crowded my trains are, this is the norm and not the exception these days.
I take your point about raiding the archives, I have shied away from this to date as I have preferred to post fresh material. Perhaps its time to change
Posted by Bob Johnson on November 11, 2011 at 8:58 AM
John re creating time. I am flat out working at the moment from 7.30 AM to around 7PM 5 days per week plus some sundays. I am writing this missive whilst snatching a sandwich for lunch and I started it 45 minutes ago and I still have half my sandwich to go. Just trying to finish before the phone goes again.
By the time I get home tonight I will just want to sit down with a glass of Sancerre, talk with the wife, catch up on the news and hit the sack I have a voluntary photography job on saturday for most of the daylight hours and it will need processing on saturday evening before my next bottle of Sancerre and bed because I am back in the office on sunday morning and preparing a talk on The Galapagos in the afternoon.
Another twenty minutes has passed and I still have some sandwich left and my tea has gone cold.
Were was I
Ah yes, trying to find five and one half minutes to prep an NPN image. Not forgetting the other twenty minutes I will use up because I cannot just go on the site to post an image without looking at the other fantstic stuff and making one of my very occassional comments.
Another twenty minutes has gone by and I am finally finishing my sandwich. Good news! one of my assistants has just brought me some hot tea
Sounds like a similarly typical day Bob, with the addition of a few more 2am's this week for me as I deal with suppliers and banks (customer dis-service!) to ensure my own customers get their christmas prezzies!
Thanks to those who've offered your thoughts here, and to those who have given and offered their support in this topic and via e-mail too. I don't agree that NPN/UKNP is 'on the slide' at the moment, just society and people are changing and adapting to certain stress points, and that affects NPN and how much time energy (& money!) people can devote to NPN & UKNP. There are a couple of changes in the offing that'll make one or two of you happy (and no-doubt one or two unhappy.. but thats life!), but timing isn't 100% certain at the moment, so I don't want to jump the gun and announce them yet...
I'll add my own thoughts to the points people have made when I've had a chance to catch up on some sleep and hopefully be able to string a sentence together a bit more coherently than at present!
Posted by Dave Bartlett on November 11, 2011 at 9:51 AM
I’ve come to this discussion rather late, but a few thoughts anyway. When I first signed up here, UKNP was perceived to be the prime open site for nature photography and had the largely unique concept of being populated by both amateur and professional photographers. I received excellent feedback and critique and was also helped by a number of contributors who I approached off it to discuss specific aspects; I am sure that I improved significantly over the last three years because of it (although I lost my historical postings at the time of the changes and got reset to zero, so you can’t check if I’m deluded or not !!).
It’s been quite a while since I posted and my membership is up for renewal next week as it happens, so I have been debating whether to stump up $49 or not. If I was convinced that UKNP was in a trough and would cycle out of it, I would certainly retain my membership, but I’m personally not sure that it will – others have covered various possible reasons. It would take a significant behavioural shift in the membership to reverse the trend, although that is always possible I suppose.
I still actively post on other sites and see a number of people who I originally encountered on UKNP, but who have dropped out from here, so they are still around and contributing. However, many alternative sites are ‘voting’ sites, and although critique can be sought on some of them, it is not usually as helpful as that available on UKNP a few years ago in my experience.
Dave
Posted by John Robinson on November 11, 2011 at 10:04 AM
Dave
I have to say I agree the loss off the historical record of postings with the change over was not a good idea.
JR
Posted by Bob Johnson on November 11, 2011 at 10:14 AM
Ah another cup of tea and a little quite spell
I have met new friends through the site and I am inspired everytime I look at the UKNP gallery so I for one will keep my mebership. Also I will definately find 5 1/2 minutes to make a post over the weekend
Bob
Posted by Matt Cole on November 11, 2011 at 12:19 PM
this thread at least suggests that there is sufficient interest and desire to see UKNP become a more vibrant site again. I'll make the effort to post a few images and comment on others over the next few weeks. If we all do the same we're half way there. And the more 'lively' the forum the more likely others are to join or re-join.
My problem is that a lot of the images I take are macro and there has never been a huge number of members particularly into macro (and probably even fewer amongst those currently posting). But I'll give it a go.
Matt
Posted by Oscar Dewhurst on November 11, 2011 at 3:20 PM
Ok I have been reading this for a while and I think everything has already been said so I won't repeat it. I will say though that I have found this site to be incredibly helpful, both in terms of critique on images, and asking members for help through emails of posts on the forum.
I agree with Matt though that there seems to be a lot of interest to see uknp become more lively. In fact, I have noticed far more images being posted in the last dew days!
Matt in regards to your comments about macro images, I cannot speak for anyone else, but I always carry my macro lens in my bag, and use it quite a lot in the Summer, but I do not post them terribly often because I think my bird images are better.
It looks like a lot of people feel this way, so surely we should be able to get it going again!
Oscar
Posted by Paul Whippey on November 11, 2011 at 6:00 PM
I've been reading this topic with interest over the last few days. As a recent member of NPN and an amateur, I find this site a superb resource for learning. Its my opinion that the advice available here is the best you can get on the web. I'm a member of flickr and 500px, which are both nice free sites. 500px is very slick and the images posted are of high quality, but neither provide critique. I've only been here a matter of months, but the knowledge I have gained so far has been invaluable and I feel has had a significant impact on my photography.
I for one hope that it continues to be an inspirational place of learning.
Oscar and Matt, keep the macro coming. I'm planning on posting a few more macro photos myself, I'm a big fan of the genre!
Posted by Jim Erhardt on November 12, 2011 at 8:46 AM
Just another on www.500px.com - visit the site, scroll to the bottom and click the "Investors" link and then click the "Round A" link in the "Investor Opportunities" section. If someone would like to arrange a $525,000.00 investment in NPN, I'm sure we could "slick up" the site a bit!
While NPN is truly a "mom and pop" operation that runs in the black with no debt (and a comparitively tiny budget), 500px will eventually have to pay the devil his due.
Posted by John Robinson on November 12, 2011 at 10:55 AM
Jim
Well said and spot on.
JR
Posted by Vincent Jones on November 13, 2011 at 3:20 PM
People haven't really posted that much since it all changed, it definately stopped me renewing my membership when it all changed. From what I was seeing & reading, it seemed like folk were posting into a dead site, a complete change from what the site used to be like, ACTIVE & LIVELY!
Vince
Posted by Pete Etheridge on November 14, 2011 at 3:27 PM
Ian,
Well done - I'm now making two comments on the same thread! I think the level of response to your post is really encouraging (as too are the number of new images that have been posted). There is obviously a real desire to keep UKNP alive.
I joined UKNP back in 2005. The main reason for this was that posting photos on the internet (6 years ago) was an exciting new experience and I could post images which weren't automatically compressed and degraded by the website (unlike on other websites). Only afterwards did I realise that the criticism and comments I was receiving about my images, far from being demoralising, were helping make me a better photographer. Through UKNP I have made many friends (several of them pro photographers) and attended two really useful and enjoyable annual conferences. One of the forum members even spent an hour on the telephone with me, helping me prepare for a job interview!
There are many other free internet sites which are free to join but, let's be honest, because of that, offer very little in the way of informative and useful critique. I have always felt that UKNP is set apart, not just by the quality of images, but by the desire of the members to become better at what they do.
I'm really encouraged that UKNP continues to be recognised as a valuable and useful tool (don't ignore the NPN global site either). UKNP isn't an internet photography forum, it's a community of people and, as such, it's only us that can make things change. The desire's obviously there, so let's all work together to return this forum to the best nature photography forum on the web!
Posted by Matt Cole on November 14, 2011 at 4:00 PM
well said Pete
Matt
Posted by Ian Mason on November 15, 2011 at 9:51 AM
Thanks all for the great response! I think I detect an improvement, although it's early days. I really hope it continues. Apart from hearing others' views on my own images, I find it a very educational exercise to look at images and, after deciding instantly whether I like or dislike them, to then try to analyse the reasons behind that reaction. It isn't always easy to put it into words, but the thought processes really make me think about my own photography. I doubt very much if I would still be doing nature photography had it not been for the help given from NPN!
Discussion
34 repliesJR
Then people naturally move on with their lives for a number of reasons, currently I am in that stage, 30+ years as a practical conservationist and photographer but currently struggling with work and other commitments, I haven't posted an image for a considerable period of time simply because I do not have time to go out with a camera at present.
There is also a natural evolution of leisure time activity, there do seem to be fewer young people emerging with an interest in photography, the vast majority of images these days are taken with phones or micro all in one zoom cameras, rather than interchangeable lens cameras so the natural progression is for long lens telephoto photography to become even more specialised. - ie fewer people are likley to dabble.
That said I am sure come the Spring people will get a new lease of life and things will pick up!
I do however look at NPN regularly when email prompts arrive on my desk. But I am guilty of just commenting on the very few pics that I think are exceptional or are perhaps contributed by people that I know personally. I never feel inclined to comment on what I consider to be poor ones though, as I hate being negative about someone elses work.
Bob
David
There are a number of new, more vibrant, photography websites now that other 'ex-NPN' members (& I) are participating. I think NPN needs to innovate, and do more to encourage participation. Charging for membership and making it more exclusive for example, is a step in the wrong direction in my personal opinion.
Lastly, I think not having an folks like those Mike's mentioned is a real lost to this forum.
Unfortunately, I don't think there's any clear solution which is a real shame. In its prime, this was by the far the best site of its kind on the web and I certainly benefited from the advice and feedback received,
Matt
I think Des and Matt have hit the nail on the head, ever since UKNP/NPN became a paying members only site, both posting and commenting numbers look to be way down, admittedly anyone can view the images but these people can no longer comment unless they pay the $49.
As for the reason being seasonal I disagree, if you look back to before this site became members only, the contribution from registered users, as opposed to payed up members, was considerable. This vast resource of knowledge and expertise has now gone and so have their images and comments.
Andy...
I'd add to that if it continues to dry up as it has been in the last few months, members will allow their renewals to lapse and the downward spiral will continue ......
A great shame
Regards participation decline there has been in the past a fair bit of effort trying to achieve this, either by the field trips or the conference. Fact is the forum membership is extremely wideley based and it is virtually impossible to set up a single location that can attract sufficient interest.
Given that a single location is never going to work particularly well, the next best thing I came up with was to have a specific "attend your local" WWT reserve/NT reserve/park etc for a day shoot aimed to achive a "best photo" of the day competition where shock horror members could actually meet other members - eg a rut season day out at the hotspots, but there was zero take up on people to act as host leader for the day - and that is the crux of the problem.
There are many simple ideas where we can encourage a day out along the lines of the above, straight off the top of my head 4 simple season trips could be
Winter geese/ducks sites - WWT reserves
Spring migration/flowers - could be fun introducing people to mud crawling or a local NT site day for best orchid picture of the day
Summer seabirds or reedbed colonies -
Autumn colour/deer rut
but it needs people to stick their head above the parapet and help identify locations that can work and act as leader for the day.
Mike
I from a personal point of view have always been of the opinion that UKNP was and still is unique in it's concept. Albeit I used the forum as a tutor and as my pictorial history shows learnt from the advice and critique freely offered by far better qualified participants than I. Knowing full well a large number being professional were still nonetheless prepared to help and offer advice.
Times change and in the prevailing economic climate other priorities surface.
The format change did make a significant difference and as far as UKNP is concerned activities slowed by a large percentage the friendly general atmosphere evaporated.
I had just paid a three year renewal so I was caught if I'd known how it was going to develop I'd have saved my money.
It's really up to us to change and make sure we regain what has been lost.
If anyone would like to make a day visit down here in the south I'd be more than happy to offer suggestions and I'll buy the teas.
Bob
Yes, that can be extremely difficult, but I do feel that this forum is all about learning - I started as a compete rookie and the education from the forum has been immense. If anything, it is even more important in my view that proper, helpful feedback is given in such cases.
Graham
My alternative opening question was:
"Why should I renew my membership?"
If it is the case that non-members cannot comment, then we really need to address this. I may be guilty of bad timing in view of the recent reduction in moderator numbers (is there now only one?). The forum has certainly worked well overall with excellent control (often barely visible) from our moderators. I do agree though that we need to change something.
I fear it may be a combination of factors. I for one have struggled over the past couple of years with a) loss of creative vision and b) decreased time for photography. I do think it is cyclical (I left UKNP briefly but returned) but do also feel that the membership requirement has contributed to the decline. However, we can't expect NPN to run this forum at a loss and I feel that what I have received from the forum has far exceeded the subscription fee that I pay.
I also believe that it's still the case, that contributing an article gives you a free year's membership - maybe that is an incentive for people to play a more active role in the NPN community?
At the present rate of posting - a weekly competition wouldn't take much judging
I wonder a little some times about the types of critique that pop up on the forum. Maybe suggestions like cloneing out small twigs etc might not appeal to some posters- especially new ones. One thing I will repeat which I have said several times - there is often a lack of understanding of the difficulty of getting a particular picture both photographically and species wise.
The spectacular stuff will get the views and interest every time and I feel that leads to a slight inbalance generally.
Organising a day trip is relatively easy but the problem is weather on the day
.It doesn't matter so much if you are botanising or bird watching maybe - but photography ?. Could be a disaster.
Been there many times.
JR
I'm hoping to get back on here soon to catch up on critique and maybe post an image or two but it annoys me that there are still some people who, to put it bluntly, can't be arsed to comment on any other peoples work but are still regularly post seeking comments and critique. This is a bit of a put off to me but I suppose its going to happen anywhere.
I really value this site but I do think it needs to move with the times.
Been following this with interest, trying to work out the reason for my own lack of posting. I agree with many of the points here, and for me work certainly gets in the way of photography.
The price of membership is quite expensive in my opinion, but I was very willing to pay to be a member of this forum, with the opportunity of having my work critiqued by some top professionals. I remember a sense of excitement and trepidation when first joining this forum and posting, and it was great to find people who were warm, friendly and generous with their advice and comments.
This all seems to have waned recently, perhaps people are too busy as pros, or drawn away by the glossier/more modern/free sites. UKNP still stands out as a place to get honest critique though, instead of just 'nice shot'. (Of course if it's good, saying 'nice shot' is just fine!)
Someone mentioned they were worried about being negative, but giving someone an honest opinion and constructive feedback on how to improve is far from negative, actually it's really positive and encouraging. There's a great article on NPN somewhere about the art of critique, perhaps worth another read.
At the end of the day it's the contributors who make the forum, yes interest/posts/comments are down, but all of us members can together make the forum a better place!
Just my thoughts...
And now with my shiny new camera, I'm going to try and post more often!
As i have said before and as Dawn says this is our forum so surely if we want to change it we can. I do worry though I have faith in the future and believe things always go in peaks and troughs and if this a trough...
I do like the idea of trying to make the forum more social and would certainly be interested
I have been reading this thread and as I am still a member of NPN I thought I would explain my lack of posts. I have been very busy this year and so I decided not to post any images. When I was still active I didn't have that much time to comment and this was picked up by a couple of fellow forum members who raised this point, so as I knew I didn't have the time to comment I decided not to post. Simon has already mentioned this point in this thread so people still feel strongly about it. So I think that is a reason a lot of people that I know don't post anymore. It is a shame because these Guys that have stopped posting were posting quality stuff and so once the quality in any forum drops, the number of people drop. Edwin Kats is a good friend of mine and that was the sole reason he stopped posting because he felt the quality had dropped. UKNP is on the slide that is for sure, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to work that one out. Maybe the people that have a lot of time to post and comment should have lightened up a bit and started to understand other peoples lack of time. I don't know how you are going to change that one though.
Danny
The other point I would suggest is that it isn't only the "pros" that are capable of offering useful critique.
As I have said I have all the time in the world and post at every opportunity. The main reason of late for doing so along with a few others is to try and keep things going a bit .
JR
In a "down economy" not only do people have less money, but motivation gets sapped by money worries, fear over job loss, etc. In other words, it's more difficult to relax and enjoy some leisure time.
This is entirely speculation on my part, but that is the way I feel.
I take your point about raiding the archives, I have shied away from this to date as I have preferred to post fresh material. Perhaps its time to change
By the time I get home tonight I will just want to sit down with a glass of Sancerre, talk with the wife, catch up on the news and hit the sack
Another twenty minutes has passed and I still have some sandwich left and my tea has gone cold.
Were was I
Ah yes, trying to find five and one half minutes to prep an NPN image. Not forgetting the other twenty minutes I will use up because I cannot just go on the site to post an image without looking at the other fantstic stuff and making one of my very occassional comments.
Another twenty minutes has gone by and I am finally finishing my sandwich. Good news! one of my assistants has just brought me some hot tea
Bob
Thanks to those who've offered your thoughts here, and to those who have given and offered their support in this topic and via e-mail too. I don't agree that NPN/UKNP is 'on the slide' at the moment, just society and people are changing and adapting to certain stress points, and that affects NPN and how much time energy (& money!) people can devote to NPN & UKNP. There are a couple of changes in the offing that'll make one or two of you happy (and no-doubt one or two unhappy.. but thats life!), but timing isn't 100% certain at the moment, so I don't want to jump the gun and announce them yet...
I'll add my own thoughts to the points people have made when I've had a chance to catch up on some sleep and hopefully be able to string a sentence together a bit more coherently than at present!
It’s been quite a while since I posted and my membership is up for renewal next week as it happens, so I have been debating whether to stump up $49 or not. If I was convinced that UKNP was in a trough and would cycle out of it, I would certainly retain my membership, but I’m personally not sure that it will – others have covered various possible reasons. It would take a significant behavioural shift in the membership to reverse the trend, although that is always possible I suppose.
I still actively post on other sites and see a number of people who I originally encountered on UKNP, but who have dropped out from here, so they are still around and contributing. However, many alternative sites are ‘voting’ sites, and although critique can be sought on some of them, it is not usually as helpful as that available on UKNP a few years ago in my experience.
Dave
I have to say I agree the loss off the historical record of postings with the change over was not a good idea.
JR
I have met new friends through the site and I am inspired everytime I look at the UKNP gallery so I for one will keep my mebership. Also I will definately find 5 1/2 minutes to make a post over the weekend
Bob
My problem is that a lot of the images I take are macro and there has never been a huge number of members particularly into macro (and probably even fewer amongst those currently posting). But I'll give it a go.
Matt
I agree with Matt though that there seems to be a lot of interest to see uknp become more lively. In fact, I have noticed far more images being posted in the last dew days!
Matt in regards to your comments about macro images, I cannot speak for anyone else, but I always carry my macro lens in my bag, and use it quite a lot in the Summer, but I do not post them terribly often because I think my bird images are better.
It looks like a lot of people feel this way, so surely we should be able to get it going again!
Oscar
I for one hope that it continues to be an inspirational place of learning.
Oscar and Matt, keep the macro coming. I'm planning on posting a few more macro photos myself, I'm a big fan of the genre!
While NPN is truly a "mom and pop" operation that runs in the black with no debt (and a comparitively tiny budget), 500px will eventually have to pay the devil his due.
Well said and spot on.
JR
Vince
Well done - I'm now making two comments on the same thread! I think the level of response to your post is really encouraging (as too are the number of new images that have been posted). There is obviously a real desire to keep UKNP alive.
I joined UKNP back in 2005. The main reason for this was that posting photos on the internet (6 years ago) was an exciting new experience and I could post images which weren't automatically compressed and degraded by the website (unlike on other websites). Only afterwards did I realise that the criticism and comments I was receiving about my images, far from being demoralising, were helping make me a better photographer. Through UKNP I have made many friends (several of them pro photographers) and attended two really useful and enjoyable annual conferences. One of the forum members even spent an hour on the telephone with me, helping me prepare for a job interview!
There are many other free internet sites which are free to join but, let's be honest, because of that, offer very little in the way of informative and useful critique. I have always felt that UKNP is set apart, not just by the quality of images, but by the desire of the members to become better at what they do.
I'm really encouraged that UKNP continues to be recognised as a valuable and useful tool (don't ignore the NPN global site either). UKNP isn't an internet photography forum, it's a community of people and, as such, it's only us that can make things change. The desire's obviously there, so let's all work together to return this forum to the best nature photography forum on the web!
Matt