Posted by Jim Erhardt on November 10, 2011 at 11:23 AM
Recent conversation has prompted me to give great thought to the title of this post. But to truly understand what NPN is (and what it is not), a short “history of NPN” is in order.
Back in 1998, after being resistant to owning a PC, Donna and I purchased our first home computer. At the time, I had left self-employment in the building trades a few years before and was working a full time job for an employer, as was Donna. Our oldest of three children was preparing to go to college, so the years of college expenses was at the doorstep.
As part of our AT&T ISP, we had the option to build a simple “home page” using their rather primitive online tools. I began experimenting with this and soon found myself learning HTML. Untold hours were spent – often at the ire of Donna – fiddling around with HTML. I eventually learned enough to build a basic webpage without the use of any software.
At the same time, my then 20-year photography hobby had moved towards an interest in nature photography. Along with a small group of local photography buffs, we would venture out to local parks on weekends. This set the stage for the emergence of NPN.
By late 1999, I was heavily into nature photography and still improving my HTML skills. I was also participating on some other photography websites and began to get ideas on building my own. Having recently been introduced to register.com I spent some time on that site looking for potential domain names. When I discovered that naturephotographers.net was available, I registered the domain on the spot.
With my extraordinarily primitive HTML skills, I began building the site. The original concept would be an “online publication” that features a cover photo (just like a “real” magazine), monthly articles and interactive forums. In April of 2000, the first “issue” of NPN went online.
The next 11 years of our personal lives – and NPN – was a time of great challenges. As with most other middle class families, our joint incomes just barely covered our expenses. A few years after NPN went online, I was losing interest in spending the time required to maintain the site, including the work of doing the monthly articles which had become a NPN trademark. It was at this point that either (1) I was going to abandon the project or (2) find a way to justify the time away from family and other activities*.
*This is a key point in the current conversation that I believe is being lost – due to the NPN model of weekly activity such as the weekly picks, and the monthly activity of new articles, cover shots, site updates, yearly awards, etc. NPN is far more time consuming than just a site with a bulletin board - not to mention the time and effort of NPN moderators, staff and those in the regional groups. It is this huge group effort that make NPN what it is.
So it was at that point that we decided to offer a membership to the site. I took the time and money out of our personal budget to register NPN as a NY corporation and make it a legitimate, tax-paying entity. This only added to the time and expense required to run the site. It would take years to reach the point that we felt the meager income (after all expenses) in combination with my undiminished interest in the project was enough to justify the chunk of our lives that it extracts.
While I continue to this day to take care of the static HTML pages on the site, the backend forum software is way out of my league. So from the beginning, I had to depend on outside resources to keep that aspect of the site operational. In the beginning, I used the commonly available bulletin board products, but eventually became dissatisfied with the limited customization that can be done with them. I had developed a list of key features I felt were required to support the NPN model and made the decision in 2002 to have forum software custom made for NPN.
It would take a year of time and going into heavy personal debt to finance the software. Like the original NPN website, it wasn’t pretty when we launched it. But since it was 100% custom, it was also extremely flexible in what could be done with it. For better or for worse, we stuck with it and over the years spent many thousands of dollars tweaking it to better serve our needs**.
**This is a “hidden (and very substantial) cost” that is not being factored into the current conversation. To this day, any time a backend change is required – add a new level of membership linked to specific forums, installing optional large photo uploads, etc. – it generates an invoice from the programmer. Every year, we pay substantial sums of money for tweaks/upgrades to the software, on top of the huge investment to have it created in the first place. This remains an important ongoing project and our most major expense.
Today, it is tempting to measure NPN against sites like 500px, which uses the latest and greatest backend technology and has the deep pockets of venture capitalists to back it. Could it be that from a product management perspective, NPN has reached the end of its product life cycle? If we look at just the website itself, that would appear to be the case. But is that all there is to NPN?
I believe that the majority of members would say there is much more to NPN than just the technology behind the website. While the ultimate fate of sites like 500px are uncertain (they will have to eventually turn a profit or the VCs will cut their losses), NPN is financially stable and has zero debt. The only thing we “owe” is to provide as much value to our members as we can muster.
Which brings us to the subject of value. If you read through this and other NPN forums, you will find plenty of testimony to the value of NPN membership. Regardless of all the time, money, sweat and tears Donna and I have personally invested in NPN, it is you, the members, who make NPN what it is. In the age of big money, big investments, big websites with the latest and greatest technology, NPN will always remain a true “mom and pop” operation in the most literal sense of the phrase, and remain true to its mission and core values. While we must explore new ways to generate operating capital within that framework, we certainly do not have by any stretch of the imagination the financial resources to compete with the “Wall Street” start-ups. At the end of the day, we only have the passion and support of our members.
The recent conversations in this forum are actually very timely and represent an extraordinary opportunity. After years of making a living in the corporate world and seeing our youngest child graduate college and recently become a full time ICU nurse at a major New England hospital, I left my fulltime corporate job on September 28, 2011. As I sit here writing this post, scary as it may be, I am now 100% self-employed once again. Though it will take some serious adjustment on our part to compensate for the loss of that income, it has freed me to spend the time needed (and deserved) to take NPN into the future. This is an important point, because up until now, I have only had the time, energy and motivation to simply keep NPN afloat amongst the demands of a full time, demanding job. After nearly 12 years from its debut, I have finally reached the point where I wanted to be - to be able to dedicate the time and energy needed to make NPN all it can be.
Now that I can focus unpressured by the demands of an unrelenting job in Corporate America, the future of NPN is becoming clear. As I now see it, regional groups like this one will play a key role. Long considered just another item on the list of NPN membership benefits, it is the passion and enthusiasm of groups like this one that will remain vital to NPN’s future.
I was once referred to in the very early days of NPN as “the man behind the curtain” – the unseen person behind the scenes maintaining the website and making all of the decisions in what seemed unilateral fashion. I promise that you will now be seeing a lot more of me, and I will be collecting your ideas and suggestions on what you would like to see NPN become. Each of you will have a greater stake in where we go and how we get there.
Twelve years on the Internet may be considered a lifetime, but I truly believe the best days of NPN are yet to come. With your help, we will make it so. In the meantime, our sincere thanks to all for being such an important part of this ongoing project of passion we call NPN!
Posted by Jack Garrett on November 10, 2011 at 11:57 AM
Very well put together JIm. Gives me a real sense of what has gone into it over the past 12 years and hope for the future!
Posted by Scott Fricke on November 10, 2011 at 12:05 PM
I'd first like to say that your creation is the finest website I have been to. It is not about the flashiest features or newest capabilities, it is about group of people with a common interest, helping each other become better photographers. It is done in a respectful manner, which you do not find at all on the web. It is why I became a member, and I don't join into many groups.
I could really care less about the newest technology here, whatever you can afford is good with me. The essence of the site is the sharing and critiquing of photography. It is about the photographs and the photographers first and foremost.
It is also of my personal opinion that it is nobodies business what the revenue and expenses of this site are. Just as it is not anyone else's business to tell those critics what to do with their money. Each person needs to simply determine for themselves if the site is of value to them, if it is, renew your membership, if not find a place that better fits your needs. This is not to say critical input is not needed or welcome, only that it should be done in the same courteous manner as a photo critique is done on this site. There is no need for an Inquisition into the finances of this website, any more than it would be appropriate to question the finances of a member.
Jim, you have created a wonderful place for people to congregate and hundreds of thousands of people come here every year, that is something to be very proud of. It's exciting to learn you are able to now concentrate on your labor of love and I wish you the best in the coming years.
Posted by Jimmy Gekas on November 10, 2011 at 12:37 PM
Very well written and thought out, Jim. As Jack mentioned, this gives me a wonderful insight into all that has been put into NPN. Your commentary here says a lot about what is to come.... your individual attention to detail and participation on the forum you created. NPN is indeed about the people and their participation, creativity, comments and support. Latest and greatest technology? Do we really need that to post a photo, get feedback, provide feedback or simply be part of an online conversation? I think not. Is NPN perfect? No, but nothing is. It is what it is and I think there are so many great people that are a part of it to justify this being the best photo forum out there.
Posted by Grant Collier on November 10, 2011 at 2:28 PM
Interesting read. I too taught myself HTML back in 1997 and decided to make an online community of photographers with my site TopPhotos.net. It quickly got more traffic than I could have expected, and I had to decide if I had the time to try and make it something bigger. I ultimately decided to focus on my own photography and never did much more with the site, which was probably the right decision for me...it's now a ghost town that gets about 400 visitors per day coming to view the ruins...but kudos to you for keeping with it and building the best nature photography community on the web.
I was one of the rabble-rousers who drew you into the conversation. I felt that there was an opportunity to do more with all of the regional groups, as ultimately I think that personal interaction is what builds good online communities. But I didn't think people should be blaming the volunteers. Whether you would have the time to do this was another question (and I certainly couldn't blame you if you didn't, as I didn't have the time for my own site). But thank you for attempting to help make this group stronger. I may not personally have the time to contribute more, but I'm sure it could be a big benefit for a lot of people on here.
Posted by Anne K. Rusk on November 10, 2011 at 3:02 PM
Jim,
I believe NPN is the best web-based photographic community and online magazine available today. What sets NPN apart from other online venues is the caliber of photographers involved and the willingness to help, not just compete against, each other. The critique in the forums is generally helpful and often well thought out (at least in flora where I post). I value RMNP as a place to view and discuss local conditions/places/events.
The general dissatisfaction that has been expressed recently seems to me like a reaction to online photo interaction in general. I myself feel inundated with photos to view, "like," "+1," and comment on to the point of sensory overload. For me, NPN is something special and different, but I have lost some of that to the race to keep up with the stream. In the middle of all of this implied need to interact, I am trying to push my own images out there for a similar response. Consequently, I barely even open a photo, judging it more on the thumbnail than on the real merits of the photo. NPN (thankfully) doesn't allow me to disengage from critique by offering me a "like" button. While my participation on NPN waxes and wanes due to outside influences, I appreciate that it is always there and therefore feel my membership is worthwhile.
Ultimately when choosing where to spend my online time it is the quality of the images and the people that matters, not the flashy set up. I am looking forward to continuing my involvement with NPN and I hope to interact more frequently in the future. Thank you for continuing to nurture this site when it would have been easier at times to let it go.
Posted by Paul DeCesare on November 10, 2011 at 5:00 PM
NPN will always remain a true “mom and pop” operation...
I dare say that 90+ % of us wouldn't have it any other way. This site is REAL. The technology and look & feel are irrelevant, it's the content, the commeraderie, the purpose of the site and the family-feel that make this site so unique. You merely need some sort of tool to distribute it, and what you do with HTML gets it into a browser for us, job done.
500px has a sleek look but you're not really sure where you are in their space, plus the clientele has no problems putting nudes all over the place and half the time their filter doesn't catch it. I walked away from that site pretty quickly. But that's not even the point, here at NPN we feel like a connected family, and we have a desire to help each other and encourage and be TRUTHFUL with each other about images. That's HUGE. Plus we have direct access to the major leaguers who are incredibly willing to share and instruct. WOW, that didn't happen 20 years ago! We had whatever the magazines told us with no way to ask a question or request a critique. And there's no one that can argue the trust amongst us all. I just sold a couple CF cards in the Classifieds forum. The buyer said she'd head out right away and drop a money order in the mail and based on past conversation I don't doubt that at all. In fact, I know her check is good so I told her to skip the money order, and I even mailed her the cards the same day. I know the check will get here. That's not the first time that's happened, someone mailed out a Singh-Ray filter to me before they got my money order. Can you imagine doing that on Flickr or 500px?
I wouldn't trade the way our family here is for any bell or whistle in the world. In fact, if I were to get that new Canon 1Dx, I'd be setting exposure to M and manually focusing the scene for all landscape work, not using one of the bells or whistles if you know what I mean. That stuff isn't necessary, quality of content is the focus.
I kmow many appreciate your candidness and as a software architect by trade (until I can go full time in photoraphy) I am very aware what maintaining a project like this entails... yes, time and money, but especially the mental fatigue of how it afects your personal life because you end up spending 95% of your awake time figuring out a programming hump or ISP issue ("is it me or them?") as well as keeping the direction of the content and structure in mind. The last thing you need is worrying that someone is criticizing Branding or Look & Feel of the site. Those who need that level of decoration have many other options, they can surely navigate there. And, I'm glad NPN is straight HTML, I can do all I want on my iPhone. You bring in Flash, Buster, and I'll be barking up your tree!
Thanks for the investment of your last 12 years that you and Donna have done, it has provided something that isn't available elsewhere. NPN is the single most important resource that has impacted what I've learned in the past 6 years.
Posted by Roger Rouch on November 10, 2011 at 8:00 PM
Jim, thanks for the long explanation. In addition to all that has been said...from my experience as a long time participant and through a few direct exchanges, it's my experience that you are a gentleman and a good human. That goes a long way with me and hopefully with others. My photo interest seems to wax and wain, and I'll continue to balance my membership costs with things, but found some of the recent criticisms beyond my understanding.
When I first used the internet for photo critique and information, the best I could come up with was photo.net. I have no idea about how it was or has developed, but now it appears to have a huge following and is virtually worthless. NPN has been good to me.
Maybe, as it's ending, the recent fray has been good and will bring positive changes. I have to say, in the process, it has brought out a negative side of a few members here, while you have remained polite and reasonable.
Best wishes with things, Jim.
Posted by Bob Falcone on November 11, 2011 at 11:47 PM
Jim,
Don't change the "feel" of NPN. The "community" that is present here is it's most redeeming feature.
Discussion
8 repliesBack in 1998, after being resistant to owning a PC, Donna and I purchased our first home computer. At the time, I had left self-employment in the building trades a few years before and was working a full time job for an employer, as was Donna. Our oldest of three children was preparing to go to college, so the years of college expenses was at the doorstep.
As part of our AT&T ISP, we had the option to build a simple “home page” using their rather primitive online tools. I began experimenting with this and soon found myself learning HTML. Untold hours were spent – often at the ire of Donna – fiddling around with HTML. I eventually learned enough to build a basic webpage without the use of any software.
At the same time, my then 20-year photography hobby had moved towards an interest in nature photography. Along with a small group of local photography buffs, we would venture out to local parks on weekends. This set the stage for the emergence of NPN.
By late 1999, I was heavily into nature photography and still improving my HTML skills. I was also participating on some other photography websites and began to get ideas on building my own. Having recently been introduced to register.com I spent some time on that site looking for potential domain names. When I discovered that naturephotographers.net was available, I registered the domain on the spot.
With my extraordinarily primitive HTML skills, I began building the site. The original concept would be an “online publication” that features a cover photo (just like a “real” magazine), monthly articles and interactive forums. In April of 2000, the first “issue” of NPN went online.
The next 11 years of our personal lives – and NPN – was a time of great challenges. As with most other middle class families, our joint incomes just barely covered our expenses. A few years after NPN went online, I was losing interest in spending the time required to maintain the site, including the work of doing the monthly articles which had become a NPN trademark. It was at this point that either (1) I was going to abandon the project or (2) find a way to justify the time away from family and other activities*.
*This is a key point in the current conversation that I believe is being lost – due to the NPN model of weekly activity such as the weekly picks, and the monthly activity of new articles, cover shots, site updates, yearly awards, etc. NPN is far more time consuming than just a site with a bulletin board - not to mention the time and effort of NPN moderators, staff and those in the regional groups. It is this huge group effort that make NPN what it is.
So it was at that point that we decided to offer a membership to the site. I took the time and money out of our personal budget to register NPN as a NY corporation and make it a legitimate, tax-paying entity. This only added to the time and expense required to run the site. It would take years to reach the point that we felt the meager income (after all expenses) in combination with my undiminished interest in the project was enough to justify the chunk of our lives that it extracts.
While I continue to this day to take care of the static HTML pages on the site, the backend forum software is way out of my league. So from the beginning, I had to depend on outside resources to keep that aspect of the site operational. In the beginning, I used the commonly available bulletin board products, but eventually became dissatisfied with the limited customization that can be done with them. I had developed a list of key features I felt were required to support the NPN model and made the decision in 2002 to have forum software custom made for NPN.
It would take a year of time and going into heavy personal debt to finance the software. Like the original NPN website, it wasn’t pretty when we launched it. But since it was 100% custom, it was also extremely flexible in what could be done with it. For better or for worse, we stuck with it and over the years spent many thousands of dollars tweaking it to better serve our needs**.
**This is a “hidden (and very substantial) cost” that is not being factored into the current conversation. To this day, any time a backend change is required – add a new level of membership linked to specific forums, installing optional large photo uploads, etc. – it generates an invoice from the programmer. Every year, we pay substantial sums of money for tweaks/upgrades to the software, on top of the huge investment to have it created in the first place. This remains an important ongoing project and our most major expense.
Today, it is tempting to measure NPN against sites like 500px, which uses the latest and greatest backend technology and has the deep pockets of venture capitalists to back it. Could it be that from a product management perspective, NPN has reached the end of its product life cycle? If we look at just the website itself, that would appear to be the case. But is that all there is to NPN?
I believe that the majority of members would say there is much more to NPN than just the technology behind the website. While the ultimate fate of sites like 500px are uncertain (they will have to eventually turn a profit or the VCs will cut their losses), NPN is financially stable and has zero debt. The only thing we “owe” is to provide as much value to our members as we can muster.
Which brings us to the subject of value. If you read through this and other NPN forums, you will find plenty of testimony to the value of NPN membership. Regardless of all the time, money, sweat and tears Donna and I have personally invested in NPN, it is you, the members, who make NPN what it is. In the age of big money, big investments, big websites with the latest and greatest technology, NPN will always remain a true “mom and pop” operation in the most literal sense of the phrase, and remain true to its mission and core values. While we must explore new ways to generate operating capital within that framework, we certainly do not have by any stretch of the imagination the financial resources to compete with the “Wall Street” start-ups. At the end of the day, we only have the passion and support of our members.
The recent conversations in this forum are actually very timely and represent an extraordinary opportunity. After years of making a living in the corporate world and seeing our youngest child graduate college and recently become a full time ICU nurse at a major New England hospital, I left my fulltime corporate job on September 28, 2011. As I sit here writing this post, scary as it may be, I am now 100% self-employed once again. Though it will take some serious adjustment on our part to compensate for the loss of that income, it has freed me to spend the time needed (and deserved) to take NPN into the future. This is an important point, because up until now, I have only had the time, energy and motivation to simply keep NPN afloat amongst the demands of a full time, demanding job. After nearly 12 years from its debut, I have finally reached the point where I wanted to be - to be able to dedicate the time and energy needed to make NPN all it can be.
Now that I can focus unpressured by the demands of an unrelenting job in Corporate America, the future of NPN is becoming clear. As I now see it, regional groups like this one will play a key role. Long considered just another item on the list of NPN membership benefits, it is the passion and enthusiasm of groups like this one that will remain vital to NPN’s future.
I was once referred to in the very early days of NPN as “the man behind the curtain” – the unseen person behind the scenes maintaining the website and making all of the decisions in what seemed unilateral fashion. I promise that you will now be seeing a lot more of me, and I will be collecting your ideas and suggestions on what you would like to see NPN become. Each of you will have a greater stake in where we go and how we get there.
Twelve years on the Internet may be considered a lifetime, but I truly believe the best days of NPN are yet to come. With your help, we will make it so. In the meantime, our sincere thanks to all for being such an important part of this ongoing project of passion we call NPN!
I could really care less about the newest technology here, whatever you can afford is good with me. The essence of the site is the sharing and critiquing of photography. It is about the photographs and the photographers first and foremost.
It is also of my personal opinion that it is nobodies business what the revenue and expenses of this site are. Just as it is not anyone else's business to tell those critics what to do with their money. Each person needs to simply determine for themselves if the site is of value to them, if it is, renew your membership, if not find a place that better fits your needs. This is not to say critical input is not needed or welcome, only that it should be done in the same courteous manner as a photo critique is done on this site. There is no need for an Inquisition into the finances of this website, any more than it would be appropriate to question the finances of a member.
Jim, you have created a wonderful place for people to congregate and hundreds of thousands of people come here every year, that is something to be very proud of. It's exciting to learn you are able to now concentrate on your labor of love and I wish you the best in the coming years.
I was one of the rabble-rousers who drew you into the conversation. I felt that there was an opportunity to do more with all of the regional groups, as ultimately I think that personal interaction is what builds good online communities. But I didn't think people should be blaming the volunteers. Whether you would have the time to do this was another question (and I certainly couldn't blame you if you didn't, as I didn't have the time for my own site). But thank you for attempting to help make this group stronger. I may not personally have the time to contribute more, but I'm sure it could be a big benefit for a lot of people on here.
I believe NPN is the best web-based photographic community and online magazine available today. What sets NPN apart from other online venues is the caliber of photographers involved and the willingness to help, not just compete against, each other. The critique in the forums is generally helpful and often well thought out (at least in flora where I post). I value RMNP as a place to view and discuss local conditions/places/events.
The general dissatisfaction that has been expressed recently seems to me like a reaction to online photo interaction in general. I myself feel inundated with photos to view, "like," "+1," and comment on to the point of sensory overload. For me, NPN is something special and different, but I have lost some of that to the race to keep up with the stream. In the middle of all of this implied need to interact, I am trying to push my own images out there for a similar response. Consequently, I barely even open a photo, judging it more on the thumbnail than on the real merits of the photo. NPN (thankfully) doesn't allow me to disengage from critique by offering me a "like" button. While my participation on NPN waxes and wanes due to outside influences, I appreciate that it is always there and therefore feel my membership is worthwhile.
Ultimately when choosing where to spend my online time it is the quality of the images and the people that matters, not the flashy set up. I am looking forward to continuing my involvement with NPN and I hope to interact more frequently in the future. Thank you for continuing to nurture this site when it would have been easier at times to let it go.
I dare say that 90+ % of us wouldn't have it any other way. This site is REAL. The technology and look & feel are irrelevant, it's the content, the commeraderie, the purpose of the site and the family-feel that make this site so unique. You merely need some sort of tool to distribute it, and what you do with HTML gets it into a browser for us, job done.
500px has a sleek look but you're not really sure where you are in their space, plus the clientele has no problems putting nudes all over the place and half the time their filter doesn't catch it. I walked away from that site pretty quickly. But that's not even the point, here at NPN we feel like a connected family, and we have a desire to help each other and encourage and be TRUTHFUL with each other about images. That's HUGE. Plus we have direct access to the major leaguers who are incredibly willing to share and instruct. WOW, that didn't happen 20 years ago! We had whatever the magazines told us with no way to ask a question or request a critique. And there's no one that can argue the trust amongst us all. I just sold a couple CF cards in the Classifieds forum. The buyer said she'd head out right away and drop a money order in the mail and based on past conversation I don't doubt that at all. In fact, I know her check is good so I told her to skip the money order, and I even mailed her the cards the same day. I know the check will get here. That's not the first time that's happened, someone mailed out a Singh-Ray filter to me before they got my money order. Can you imagine doing that on Flickr or 500px?
I wouldn't trade the way our family here is for any bell or whistle in the world. In fact, if I were to get that new Canon 1Dx, I'd be setting exposure to M and manually focusing the scene for all landscape work, not using one of the bells or whistles if you know what I mean. That stuff isn't necessary, quality of content is the focus.
I kmow many appreciate your candidness and as a software architect by trade (until I can go full time in photoraphy) I am very aware what maintaining a project like this entails... yes, time and money, but especially the mental fatigue of how it afects your personal life because you end up spending 95% of your awake time figuring out a programming hump or ISP issue ("is it me or them?") as well as keeping the direction of the content and structure in mind. The last thing you need is worrying that someone is criticizing Branding or Look & Feel of the site. Those who need that level of decoration have many other options, they can surely navigate there. And, I'm glad NPN is straight HTML, I can do all I want on my iPhone. You bring in Flash, Buster, and I'll be barking up your tree!
Thanks for the investment of your last 12 years that you and Donna have done, it has provided something that isn't available elsewhere. NPN is the single most important resource that has impacted what I've learned in the past 6 years.
When I first used the internet for photo critique and information, the best I could come up with was photo.net. I have no idea about how it was or has developed, but now it appears to have a huge following and is virtually worthless. NPN has been good to me.
Maybe, as it's ending, the recent fray has been good and will bring positive changes. I have to say, in the process, it has brought out a negative side of a few members here, while you have remained polite and reasonable.
Best wishes with things, Jim.
Don't change the "feel" of NPN. The "community" that is present here is it's most redeeming feature.