Posted by Charlie Baugh on December 8, 2011 at 7:40 PM
What I mean is ALL images posted, by members, are voted upon by the entire membership with management each getting one vote like every other member?
Posted by Ed Cordes on December 8, 2011 at 9:08 PM
Charlie, I believe this has been discussed numerous times over the years. The WPs are chosen to be representative of the best nature photographs of the week. The decision is not only based on the "pretty picture" concept or the "most unusual picture" concept but on a host of aspects including the above as well as many technical aspects. Our moderators are chosen for their expertise in the fields represented in the various forums. They are objective in applying their judgement to each image, taking into account all aspects that went into the creation of the image. This is far different than a popularity contest.
I believe it should stay the way it is.
Just my $0.02
Posted by Paul DeCesare on December 9, 2011 at 12:40 AM
Charlie, I've even had a couple photos picked as WP's, and I am definitely NOT the most popular dude on here, lol!
Posted by Charlie Baugh on December 9, 2011 at 12:53 AM
Actually I think the system now used makes sense and I also feel that the moderators are expert in their various fields.
What I do feel would benefit all who participate is to have the benefit of the thinking of the management (moderators and editor) in the decision process so that we know what points were formost in the selection. All could learn from that, and from what I read everyone here feels that NPN is a very educational experience for we participants.
Could we have some small explanation provided when the editors pick is announced?
Charlie
Posted by Jim Erhardt on December 9, 2011 at 5:55 AM
Could we have some small explanation provided when the editors pick is announced?
I think in the vast majority of cases, the comments left on the photo pretty much tell the story.
Posted by Charlie Baugh on December 9, 2011 at 9:11 AM
Probably just me, but I don't think they do.
Posted by Carol Nichols on December 9, 2011 at 9:46 AM
Charlie, I agree with you. There are usually so many good photos that it is impossible to tell why a moderator chooses one photo over many others. We would all learn from knowing the reasoning behind the WP choices. I have a feeling though that Jim does not want to impose any more work on the moderators who are already giving up a lot of their time to do a great job. I'm not sure we can expect them to do any more than they already do.
Posted by Charlie Baugh on December 9, 2011 at 10:06 AM
Carol, I guess that is a way of looking at it.
It seems to me that the photographer chosen for each catagory would benefit most by knowing exactly what it was about their image that impressed the management to choose it for this recognition.
I guess I am asking just too much of our management. I was not aware of the burden this would cause.
As a moderator I'll dip a cup into your brew you're stirring Charlie-
It's moderator opinion, sometimes clear from their comments sometimes not. But in the moderator's eyes the choice is the best for the week. You can glean lots from their comments on individual photos.
I don't intend to justify my choices beyond that with any further comments on any particular photo spread or on this thread, and I certainly won't join you in a debate on- or off-line.
Posted by Charlie Baugh on December 9, 2011 at 12:30 PM
When I read posts in forums by moderators I accept them as management statements, and know that this closes any further discussion of the possibility of any merit being given to what I have requested here.
I do not feel that asking for clear reason for the resultant choices was "stirring", but now realize that management sees it as such.
Thank you for taking the time to read and give me this decision.
Respectfully,
Charlie
Posted by Phillip Noll on December 9, 2011 at 8:51 PM
I agree with you Charlie! I would like to see the reasoning behind the weekly picks as many times I am very surprised by the choice made. What criteria were used? How did you, as a moderator, arrive at your decision? I think this info would be very helpful indeed for people just getting started as well as for the veteran photographers out there. If the photo you chose was the best for the week, what made it the best? Inquiring minds want to know!
Posted by Keith Bauer on December 9, 2011 at 9:14 PM
I have no desire to get into any debate on this either. I agree with Hank's comments above. The picks are the moderators opinion. Sandy Richards asked a while back about the Avian picks and why. I posted a response about the general thought process, not about specific week to week picks. Here's the link. Scroll down a bit and you'll see my response.
Posted by John Tobias on December 10, 2011 at 8:46 AM
I say leave it as it is. Frequently I am puzzled by the choices, even one of my own, but for me it is just a fun thing to be able to do with my photos picked for a WP or not. It is just like the recently anounced Photographer of the Year results, I have looked at the ones published in "Wildlife" and wonder in many cases what were the judges thinking! But, I have never submitted. Leave it be as it is and enjoy seeing all the fine images and be happy if you get a pick. I know I am.
Posted by Jim Erhardt on December 10, 2011 at 9:05 AM
Charlie, you truly have a knack for posting questions that challenge the way we do things!
As you know, NPN moderators volunteer their time and expertise. As volunteers, there are limits on what we can realistically expect them to do. Like the rest of us, they have jobs, families and other obligations in life - not to mention their own photography.
The thread Keith linked to above and the About the WP/POTM page describe the selection process. The "can of worms" I see with going a step farther and requiring moderators to explain why they selected each photo is that it would open the door to challenges/disputes on the moderator's judgement. Even just based on your question in this thread, I believe such challenges/disputes would be inevitable and would cultivate an atmosphere of discord and discontent - not to mention the additional time required for the moderators to defend their decisions.
Voting/rating systems are used on other photo sites. The consensus here is that such systems are not useful as they eventually evolve into popularity contests or vote rigging ("vote for me this week and I'll vote for you next week"). We also believe that if members could simply vote/rate a photo, they would be much less inclined to critique or leave any comments. Providing a critique, or even just leaving a comment does require time and effort, doesn't it?
I hope this answers your question. We recognize that the system is not perfect, but all things considered we feel it works pretty well.
Discussion
13 repliesI believe it should stay the way it is.
Just my $0.02
What I do feel would benefit all who participate is to have the benefit of the thinking of the management (moderators and editor) in the decision process so that we know what points were formost in the selection. All could learn from that, and from what I read everyone here feels that NPN is a very educational experience for we participants.
Could we have some small explanation provided when the editors pick is announced?
Charlie
It seems to me that the photographer chosen for each catagory would benefit most by knowing exactly what it was about their image that impressed the management to choose it for this recognition.
I guess I am asking just too much of our management. I was not aware of the burden this would cause.
Charlie
It's moderator opinion, sometimes clear from their comments sometimes not. But in the moderator's eyes the choice is the best for the week. You can glean lots from their comments on individual photos.
I don't intend to justify my choices beyond that with any further comments on any particular photo spread or on this thread, and I certainly won't join you in a debate on- or off-line.
I do not feel that asking for clear reason for the resultant choices was "stirring", but now realize that management sees it as such.
Thank you for taking the time to read and give me this decision.
Respectfully,
Charlie
http://www.naturephotographers.net/imagecritique/bbs.cgi?a=vm&mr=66061&CGISESSID=eb0e7fa9b2d8719f813832b046424056&u=16292
As you know, NPN moderators volunteer their time and expertise. As volunteers, there are limits on what we can realistically expect them to do. Like the rest of us, they have jobs, families and other obligations in life - not to mention their own photography.
The thread Keith linked to above and the About the WP/POTM page describe the selection process. The "can of worms" I see with going a step farther and requiring moderators to explain why they selected each photo is that it would open the door to challenges/disputes on the moderator's judgement. Even just based on your question in this thread, I believe such challenges/disputes would be inevitable and would cultivate an atmosphere of discord and discontent - not to mention the additional time required for the moderators to defend their decisions.
Voting/rating systems are used on other photo sites. The consensus here is that such systems are not useful as they eventually evolve into popularity contests or vote rigging ("vote for me this week and I'll vote for you next week"). We also believe that if members could simply vote/rate a photo, they would be much less inclined to critique or leave any comments. Providing a critique, or even just leaving a comment does require time and effort, doesn't it?
I hope this answers your question. We recognize that the system is not perfect, but all things considered we feel it works pretty well.